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CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: BitterTea on October 11, 2011, 10:57:31 AM

How can the code not be ready if it's running a production system? That doesn't inspire confidence.

I see you live in lala open source world where everyone is writing source for the utopia project. In case you're unaware there are many trolls abound with no skills who like to copy things. It's mainly to annoy them so they can't start their little "I have 51% protected chain tooo like SolidCoiiiiiiin" before we've established SC as the only chain with said security features. That is what I mean by "Ready".

The thousands of people who have downloaded the client didn't need source to run it. How many wouldn't run it unless it had source? 5? 10? 100? Not very many is it. I'm not like most people who contribute in the open source industry, my background is closed source, high end applications which were and still are run by hundreds of thousands of people around the world. I'm more of a realist I guess you can say and look at ways to maximize user acceptance more than elitist open source developers.

BitterTea

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Activity: 294

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Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:49:14 AM

What does source code do ?

You realize that almost everything we know about the functioning of Bitcoin comes from the source code, right?

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:49:14 AM

If you could understand all I've written why haven't you written it? Why have I discovered many vulnerabilities in Bitcoin over my course of refactoring the source?

If you could understand Bitcoin so well, why did you not write it? *facepalm*

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:49:14 AM

It proves beyond a doubt that people do not read the source code, or at least, do not understand it, and the Bitcoin code has been out there for a while. In the end if you're not an advanced programmer you'll be relying on experts to "break it down" for you, right?

I am a programmer. Maybe not advanced enough to write Bitcoin, but enough to get a general idea of what it's doing.

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:49:14 AM

99% of End users couldn't care less about how SolidCoin or Bitcoin works. They want simple things. Things like fast transactions, secure networking, easy to use developer environments and many even want a small central organization to help protect the more vulnerable members in the community. I spent 3 hours today waiting for 3 confirmations in bitcoin. 3 hours.

"Blah blah blah, my target audience is the ignorant, blah blah blah"

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:49:14 AM

So whilst I understand some will never be happy unless there is "source" I also understand 99% of people couldn't care less. All this said source will be released when ready.

How can the code not be ready if it's running a production system? That doesn't inspire confidence.

ThiagoCMC

legendary

Activity: 1204

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฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:49:14 AM

Quote from: BitterTea on October 11, 2011, 10:39:48 AM

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:38:07 AM

Seriously, are you that brain dead? It is 5% of SC minted. If you think I'm the type of person to defraud thousands of people whilst I have assets and a family then it shows you don't know me and are making stupid decisions. Coupled with your inability to tell 10% from 5% it completes the puzzle doesn't it?

This would all be a lot simpler if you released code, you know. Can you blame us for our ignorance of SC's workings, when the only information we have is that which you have given us?

What does source code do ? If you could understand all I've written why haven't you written it? Why have I discovered many vulnerabilities in Bitcoin over my course of refactoring the source? It proves beyond a doubt that people do not read the source code, or at least, do not understand it, and the Bitcoin code has been out there for a while. In the end if you're not an advanced programmer you'll be relying on experts to "break it down" for you, right?

99% of End users couldn't care less about how SolidCoin or Bitcoin works. They want simple things. Things like fast transactions, secure networking, easy to use developer environments and many even want a small central organization to help protect the more vulnerable members in the community. I spent 3 hours today waiting for 3 confirmations in bitcoin. 3 hours.

So whilst I understand some will never be happy unless there is "source" I also understand 99% of people couldn't care less. All this said source will be released when ready.

fast transactions, secure networking, blah blah... Can be done without any kind of centralization... Please... What are your intentions!!! Tell us the truth, RELEASE THE CODE!!

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: michaelmclees on October 11, 2011, 10:52:52 AM

The thing is, when someone makes a claim that Bitcoin is secure, it is believable because we know that people, you included, are able to see the source code and make sense of it, even if we can't.

With SC2, no one is even able to make that claim, let alone verify it.

That's not entirely true, good programmers also understand ASM and can reverse engineer from that. Might make it a little harder than having source but it's possible. Look at Microsoft for instance and their vulns.

If you think Bitcoin is secure you haven't read or understood the source code. I think you'll even find gavin say he's not sure on things like this.

johnj

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

Start trading SolidCoin 2

https://btc-e.com/sc_exchanger SC / BTC

https://btc-e.com/sc_usd_exchanger SC / USD

Spamming your exchange makes me want to use it less.

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: ThiagoCMC on October 11, 2011, 10:19:06 AM

Sorry but, no centralization can be good. Look around you man!!!

Look around me? Sure I look around me and see how centralization helps in some ways and hinders in many other ways.

If you're of the belief that ANY centralization at all is bad/evil/etc then we'll have to disagree. I know there are people out there with strong values on such things and there is no amount of arguing one way or the other that way change the mindset. It's good we live in a world where you can have something to support like BTC which has your values whilst others can support something else.

michaelmclees

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 500

The thing is, when someone makes a claim that Bitcoin is secure, it is believable because we know that people, you included, are able to see the source code and make sense of it, even if we can't.

With SC2, no one is even able to make that claim, let alone verify it.

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: BitterTea on October 11, 2011, 10:39:48 AM

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:38:07 AM

Seriously, are you that brain dead? It is 5% of SC minted. If you think I'm the type of person to defraud thousands of people whilst I have assets and a family then it shows you don't know me and are making stupid decisions. Coupled with your inability to tell 10% from 5% it completes the puzzle doesn't it?

This would all be a lot simpler if you released code, you know. Can you blame us for our ignorance of SC's workings, when the only information we have is that which you have given us?

What does source code do ? If you could understand all I've written why haven't you written it? Why have I discovered many vulnerabilities in Bitcoin over my course of refactoring the source? It proves beyond a doubt that people do not read the source code, or at least, do not understand it, and the Bitcoin code has been out there for a while. In the end if you're not an advanced programmer you'll be relying on experts to "break it down" for you, right?

99% of End users couldn't care less about how SolidCoin or Bitcoin works. They want simple things. Things like fast transactions, secure networking, easy to use developer environments and many even want a small central organization to help protect the more vulnerable members in the community. I spent 3 hours today waiting for 3 confirmations in bitcoin. 3 hours.

So whilst I understand some will never be happy unless there is "source" I also understand 99% of people couldn't care less. All this said source will be released when ready.

Sannyasi

sr. member

Activity: 454

Merit: 250

wow- this thread requires popcorn and soda.... time to run to the store before i finish reading up to this post..... and after..... this is what i call useful entertainment

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:38:07 AM

Seriously, are you that brain dead? It is 5% of SC minted. If you think I'm the type of person to defraud thousands of people whilst I have assets and a family then it shows you don't know me and are making stupid decisions. Coupled with your inability to tell 10% from 5% it completes the puzzle doesn't it?

It is 10%. Sad you can't understand your own code.

Per your description.
Your wallet is paid 5% from by the trusted nodes.
Your wallet is paid another 5% minted out of thin air.

Thus .... drumroll ... 5% + 5% = 10% of total coins minted end up in your personally and irreversible wallet.

Quote

If you think I'm the type of person to defraud thousands of people whilst I have assets and a family then it shows you don't know me and are making stupid decisions.

That isn't the point. The point is it requires trust in a central authority. If the central authority is flawless it doesn't negate the need for trust in a central authority.

If the Fed does a good job then the Fed isn't bad right? Wrong I say. Having the Fed (even doing a good job) requires trust in that central authority. They may be doing good today but won't in the future. The issue is trust not current performance.

Lastly having a family (and assets) is hardly a prohibition against fraud. Lots of family man, asset owning fraudsters in jail (and more not in jail). The point isn't that you WILL commit fraud (maybe you won't) but rather you have developed a system which requires absolute trust in a single fallible entity. Sometimes people engage in fraud even when that wasn't the initial plan. If you lost your job and your family was facing eviction and unable to put food on the table you would sacrifice them for the good of the SC2 community? Or given you have complete and unlimited access to 10% of all SC mined maybe you dip into that fund for the sake of your family?

Crypto-currency shouldn't rely on trusting a central authority no matter how good the intentions of that authority.

johnj

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:32:12 AM

Up to each person to educate themselves and decide without people pushing them into it. Don't you agree?

Hard to 'educate themselves' when the sole programmer hasn't released the source/documentation.

Also, funny, this coming from the same guy who paid spammers to spam an article written solely to deceive.

Also, care to address this?:

Difficulty goes up, but now there are more invalid blocks?

Certainly you aren't still claiming that SC has continued to grow exponentially since launch? I mean, there are only certain number of people active in mining cryptocurrencies, much less alt-chains.

---NONE OF THAT ADDS UP

Occam's razor says its more likely you fucked up your code than SC is experiencing unprecedented popularity.

ThiagoCMC

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1000

฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!

Quote from: BitterTea on October 11, 2011, 10:39:48 AM

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:38:07 AM

Seriously, are you that brain dead? It is 5% of SC minted. If you think I'm the type of person to defraud thousands of people whilst I have assets and a family then it shows you don't know me and are making stupid decisions. Coupled with your inability to tell 10% from 5% it completes the puzzle doesn't it?

This would all be a lot simpler if you released code, you know. Can you blame us for our ignorance of SC, when the only information we have is that which you have given us?

Yeah CH... RELEASE THE CODE!! RELEASE THE CODE!! RELEASE THE CODE!! RELEASE THE CODE!!

RELEASE THE CODE!! RELEASE THE CODE!!

RELEASE THE CODE!!
RELEASE THE CODE!!

What you afraid of?!?!

RELEASE THE CODE!! RELEASE THE CODE!!

BitterTea

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 252

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:38:07 AM

Seriously, are you that brain dead? It is 5% of SC minted. If you think I'm the type of person to defraud thousands of people whilst I have assets and a family then it shows you don't know me and are making stupid decisions. Coupled with your inability to tell 10% from 5% it completes the puzzle doesn't it?

This would all be a lot simpler if you released code, you know. Can you blame us for our ignorance of SC's workings, when the only information we have is that which you have given us?

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2011, 10:32:40 AM

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:26:46 AM

You are right that in some ways it comes down to trust, trust that the 5% will be spent appropriately. If you can't trust me (or eventually the NPO) to spend that 5% in ways which strengthen SolidCoin then you shouldn't support or invest in it. The way I see it is it's better to try to have that central organization as it offers so many benefits than just saying "but you have to trust them so let's not do it". Not every person walking on the planet is an evil person looking to scam you. Some want better things for this world.

Meh don't couple trust of you with trust of valid NPO. The NPO doesn't exist yet. If you defraud the community it could occur prior to any NPO taking over.

Today the wallets are completely under your control and they will hold 10% of all SC minted.

10% of all SC minted in the world becomes your personal wealth without you spending your own hardware and electricity to produce it.

SC2 is backed only by your word, trust in a central authority to engage in monetary policy that would be beneficial to the community (as determined solely by you).

As I said congratulation you just reinvention of fiat currency.

Seriously, are you that brain dead? It is 5% of SC minted. If you think I'm the type of person to defraud thousands of people whilst I have assets and a family then it shows you don't know me and are making stupid decisions. Coupled with your inability to tell 10% from 5% it completes the puzzle doesn't it?

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:26:46 AM

You are right that in some ways it comes down to trust, trust that the 5% will be spent appropriately. If you can't trust me (or eventually the NPO) to spend that 5% in ways which strengthen SolidCoin then you shouldn't support or invest in it. The way I see it is it's better to try to have that central organization as it offers so many benefits than just saying "but you have to trust them so let's not do it". Not every person walking on the planet is an evil person looking to scam you. Some want better things for this world.

Meh don't couple trust of you with trust of valid NPO. That is a logical fallacy. The NPO doesn't exist yet. If you defraud the community it could occur prior to any NPO taking over thus trust isn't in some mythical future NPO it is trust in YOU.

Today the wallets are completely under your control and they will hold 10% of all SC minted.

10% of all SC minted in the world becomes your personal wealth without you spending your own hardware and electricity to produce it.

SC2 is backed only by your word, trust in a central authority to engage in monetary policy that would be beneficial to the community (as determined solely by you).

Maybe you will feel the need to "control" the SC economy. You could destroy coins from the wallets or sell them on the exchange thus engaging in monetary policy similar to the Fed. It isn't like you earned those coins so you aren't constrained by your personal finances like a mere speculator. You have just made yourself the central back and engaged in a weird sort of fraction reserve minting (ever coin minted produces another fractional coin under your direct control).

As I said congratulation you just reinvention of fiat currency.

SC2 is not a crypto-currency. It is failed 20th century thinking in a shiny new digital shell.

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: johnj on October 11, 2011, 10:29:15 AM

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:26:46 AM

If you can't trust me (or eventually the NPO) to spend that 5% in ways which strengthen SolidCoin then you shouldn't support or invest in it.

This is the soundest advice I've ever heard CH give.

It's not the first time I've given it either.

You can't expect to have values that everyone shares, I realize this, and I don't want to convert anyone that doesn't see why the decisions made for SolidCoin are worthwhile. Up to each person to educate themselves and decide without people pushing them into it. Don't you agree?

johnj

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:26:46 AM

If you can't trust me (or eventually the NPO) to spend that 5% in ways which strengthen SolidCoin then you shouldn't support or invest in it.

This is the soundest advice I've ever heard CH give.

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2011, 10:19:11 AM

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:13:01 AM

No, though currently I hold the wallet for those CPF coins.

10% of all coins generated go into your wallet. Crypto-currencies are based on the concept of exchange without trust however there is nothing but all users of solid coin need to trust that you will do the right thing.

Pure blind trust because if you don't there is no recourse, no checks & balances, no failsafe.

Centrally controlled currency without oversight which requires trust in major stakeholders. Congrats you just (re)invented fiat currency.

Again, your analysis is flawed. 5% is created out of "nowhere" like a block generate is. 5% is taken from these "Trusted nodes". If 5% is taken from a trusted node it's not "created" it's being re-spent.

You are right that in some ways it comes down to trust, trust that the 5% will be spent appropriately. If you can't trust me (or eventually the NPO) to spend that 5% in ways which strengthen SolidCoin then you shouldn't support or invest in it. The way I see it is it's better to try to have that central organization as it offers so many benefits than just saying "but you have to trust them so let's not do it". Not every person walking on the planet is an evil person looking to scam you. Some want better things for this world.

I want SolidCoin to be able to hunt down and prosecute criminals. I want SolidCoin to be able to stabilize price so that the world can use it as a currency, I want SolidCoin to protect itself against governments and banks by using their own systems against them.

If you can't see that a completely decentralized system leads to a case of "well I don't really know them so f%ck them" then you perhaps don't understand human psychology as well as some.

Remember remember the 5th of November

legendary

Activity: 1862

Merit: 1011

Reverse engineer from time to time

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: worldinacoin on October 11, 2011, 10:20:36 AM

But one strange thing was that when the network just started and the difficulty was the least, I generate nothing until when the difficulty was about 400 then the coins start to appear. I now have 5 block of coins.

At the massively reduced difficulties it was a crap shoot on who got the blocks and had very little to do with real difficulty now that we are more in realistic realms of difficulty stales etc. will be dropping, you can additionally double check this behavior on the pools where you can see their stale rate has fallen off tremendously.

Are you by any chance inventing new words?

ThiagoCMC

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1000

฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2011, 10:19:11 AM

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 10:13:01 AM

No, though currently I hold the wallet for those CPF coins.

10% of all coins generated go into your wallet. Crypto-currencies are based on the concept of exchange without trust however there is nothing but all users of solid coin need to trust that you will do the right thing.

Pure blind trust because if you don't there is no recourse, no checks & balances, no failsafe.

Centrally controlled currency without oversight which requires trust in major stakeholders. Congrats you just (re)invented fiat currency.

Exactly!! lol

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