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Topic: Diablo Mining Company - page 45. (Read 96422 times)

legendary
Activity: 1222
Merit: 1016
Live and Let Live
May 25, 2012, 09:05:13 PM
I'm not sure that I would touch solar until its cost efficiency goes way up. Current panel designs are expensive and inefficient, and that doesn't look like it is changing a lot any time soon.

I agree.  Solar is too expensive.

Edit:  The upfront cost of solar is very expensive.  Also you can only run your miners at day-time. Making the initial cost of the miners effectivly 50% more expensive.  Unless you decide to use both solar and paid electricity.  (maybe buy off-peak power, that is cheaper).
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
May 25, 2012, 04:20:35 PM
I'm not sure that I would touch solar until its cost efficiency goes way up. Current panel designs are expensive and inefficient, and that doesn't look like it is changing a lot any time soon.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 25, 2012, 04:16:03 PM
at 0.1$/kWh you can buy 2 500 000 kWh at 250 000$ or enough for running those BFL mini rigs 50 years. I bet the solar panels is dead way before 2062.

If you promise use wall power instead of solar your project actually looks good.
Solar sucks, but I think he is looking at wind power, not solar. And, an additional revenue stream from selling the wind power to the grid.

I am still looking at both equally. Large scale wind requires permits and licenses, and even if I had all the paperwork done right now it would take about 2 years start to finish to get the first turbine up.

Solar is fine in Maine, we generate about 1200kwh/yr per 1kw of panel measured on real panels installed in Maine. There are better places in the US for the solar (areas in AZ, NM and TX can do 1600), but there are also worse areas in the continental USA and moving to AZ, NM or TX for superior solar means we're also wasting money on air conditioning and the electricity to run the air conditioning.

Basically, even though I'd generate about 31% more electricity, the cost and overhead of needing air conditioning would cost much more than the 31% I'd be gaining. TINSTAAFL.

http://www.ecotechnousa.com/Portals/0/Media/News/SolarMap-US.gif

That map is overly optimistic and lists Maine as ~1500 kwh/yr and those areas in AZ, NM and TX as 2100, but it illustrates the point well.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 25, 2012, 04:01:20 PM
at 0.1$/kWh you can buy 2 500 000 kWh at 250 000$ or enough for running those BFL mini rigs 50 years. I bet the solar panels is dead way before 2062.

If you promise use wall power instead of solar your project actually looks good.

I think you missed something rather important. Buying power from the power company does not involve the power company paying me for generating power. Notice the large discrepancy between what you want and how the plan was written.

In addition, difficulty will only go up, electricity prices will go up, and those two in combination with prices going down we can end up in a situation where it is no longer profitable to mine. If I remove the only constant operation cost (electricity), then we can mine when everyone else can't.

Green power generation is both a second revenue stream and an insurance policy.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
May 25, 2012, 03:25:20 PM
at 0.1$/kWh you can buy 2 500 000 kWh at 250 000$ or enough for running those BFL mini rigs 50 years. I bet the solar panels is dead way before 2062.

If you promise use wall power instead of solar your project actually looks good.
Solar sucks, but I think he is looking at wind power, not solar. And, an additional revenue stream from selling the wind power to the grid.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
May 25, 2012, 03:22:06 PM
at 0.1$/kWh you can buy 2 500 000 kWh at 250 000$ or enough for running those BFL mini rigs 50 years. I bet the solar panels is dead way before 2062.

If you promise use wall power instead of solar your project actually looks good.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 24, 2012, 10:12:35 PM
Wow, I screwed up my earlier math. Where I said we're at 0.41 mh/$? I forgot to count Bitbond as 2mh bonds, I counted them as 1mh. We're currently at 2799 mhash @ 0.46 mhash/$.

That means we're already in the upper 0.40s, and should pass into the lower 0.50s within 3 months.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
May 24, 2012, 05:41:15 PM
Glad to see a long term, transparent bitcoin investment starting up
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 24, 2012, 05:30:28 PM
Hey! Crazy project you have planned there, I like it! :-)

Some people are viewing this premium as strictly "buy DMC for 2/3rds the cost", which is not entirely true. Up front, yes, you buy the DMC shares for that, but you give up two short term abilities: dividends (they are cut in half as per the 50% dividend/50% growth agreement in the contract), and the ability to sell (there is not a huge demand for DMC shares yet as the company is still new).

I'm not sure I can agree with this argumentation. The market should (in theory) have already factored all of these things into the price of the asset. If you are saying that 2x YABMC at 0.6 BTC (total) is really sort of equal to 1x DMC at 1 BTC after all things considered, then apparently the market disagrees or - since in this case the DMC price is just an arbitrary price set for the IPO - you have lowered the IPO price of your shares retroactively. That's not exactly fair to anyone who has bought shares at 1 BTC as they are now, as others have pointed out, in fact being diluted.

Well, just my two cents. In any case, looking forward to see where this project is going! :-)

The market isn't very efficient here, sadly. The market is not factoring in the fact that I only pay out 50% of the bond dividends, the other 50% is going into the growth fund (which is now just buying more bonds). I would have to wait like 3 months or more to get any hardware I buy... bond dividends being cycled directly back into more bond purchases for those 3 months will start rapidly catching us up. We've already gone from 0.40 mh/$ to 0.41 mh/$ after one week, we should be 0.41 -> 0.43 by the next weekly bond dividend payout.

DMC shares do not represent a fixed amount of mh, bonds do. Its hard to do the comparison, so thats why I have this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.901464
jav
sr. member
Activity: 249
Merit: 251
May 24, 2012, 05:16:34 PM
Hey! Crazy project you have planned there, I like it! :-)

Some people are viewing this premium as strictly "buy DMC for 2/3rds the cost", which is not entirely true. Up front, yes, you buy the DMC shares for that, but you give up two short term abilities: dividends (they are cut in half as per the 50% dividend/50% growth agreement in the contract), and the ability to sell (there is not a huge demand for DMC shares yet as the company is still new).

I'm not sure I can agree with this argumentation. The market should (in theory) have already factored all of these things into the price of the asset. If you are saying that 2x YABMC at 0.6 BTC (total) is really sort of equal to 1x DMC at 1 BTC after all things considered, then apparently the market disagrees or - since in this case the DMC price is just an arbitrary price set for the IPO - you have lowered the IPO price of your shares retroactively. That's not exactly fair to anyone who has bought shares at 1 BTC as they are now, as others have pointed out, in fact being diluted.

Well, just my two cents. In any case, looking forward to see where this project is going! :-)
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 24, 2012, 04:42:08 PM
You know, I should add this to my plan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDOcLros-w0

The DMC DC totally needs one of these. Srsly.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 24, 2012, 04:32:47 PM
I've rebalanced the bond offer and added JAH.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.901042

We're issuing our first dividends the first of June, so make sure you swap in before then.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 24, 2012, 04:08:26 PM
Sales seem to be nonexistent - sell orders @ 0.75 now on GLBSE. What do you intend to do if the IPO fails to attract any more attention? (And when do you intend to pay dividends on the mining company shares/bonds currently held by DMC?)

People have actually been buying up all those shares. Its mostly all people who bond swapped for a quick buck trying to flip their DMC shares to rinse and repeat. I know where most of the straight out purchased DMC shares are, and they're all sitting on them. In fact, many are quite happy to buy up a lot of those flipped shares just so they can increase their DMC holdings.

Generally, most of the almost 1200 shares sold are being sat on for the long term.

As for dividends, yes, I intend on paying out on those. Bonds are virtual hash power to me, its no different than buying hardware at a slight premium*. I'm treating May as a half month so we can start paying out monthly on the first. It won't be much, but it will be enough to spur more share sales as people reinvest their earnings.

* Buying non-BFL hardware in small numbers is in the lower 0.60s per mh/$. After expensive residential electricity and waiting for delivery, we're in the lower 0.50s mh/$. I'm buying bonds at a premium that puts us at in the lower 0.40s mh/$ in the short term, lower 0.50s mh/$ in the longer term. It ends up evening out and it also helps people buy into DMC and rebuild their investment portfolio now that Bitcoinica is unlikely to payout what they owe.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
May 24, 2012, 03:42:01 PM
He intends to pay monthly, 50% of income as dividends - probably in ~1 week then. Currently this would mean he'd pay ~1MH/s PPS since the IPO launched... Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Ad astra.
May 24, 2012, 03:33:02 PM
Sales seem to be nonexistent - sell orders @ 0.75 now on GLBSE. What do you intend to do if the IPO fails to attract any more attention? (And when do you intend to pay dividends on the mining company shares/bonds currently held by DMC?)
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 20, 2012, 01:23:10 AM
By request I've added a new bond swap: JLP-BMD
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 19, 2012, 02:10:08 PM
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 17, 2012, 09:15:53 PM
Seems like a lot of people had the same idea as me:

Buy 2 shares of X for 0.6 BTC, trade them for 1 share of DMC and sell them for slightly less than 1 BTC...

I'm not really sure if you can keep up this model much longer without seriously hurting your IPO income.

I'm not sure this was intended to happen, but it certainly has. If he sells all 200k shares, percentage-wise, the impact is still small, but I agree, this can do naught but dilute the value of DMC shares.

I really doubt I can exchange all 200k shares this way. However, if someone wants to try, they are more than welcome.

I meant that if the rest of the shares are bought @ 1 BTC each, the effect of what bond exchanges have happened on DMC's assets would be negligible. Not enough bonds exist right now, so even if someone wanted to buy the remaining shares with bonds, they wouldn't be able to.

There isn't enough bonds, but I think the larger bonds are growing to accommodate my plans. YABMC just launched a huge expansion project, for example.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Ad astra.
May 17, 2012, 06:40:32 PM
Seems like a lot of people had the same idea as me:

Buy 2 shares of X for 0.6 BTC, trade them for 1 share of DMC and sell them for slightly less than 1 BTC...

I'm not really sure if you can keep up this model much longer without seriously hurting your IPO income.

I'm not sure this was intended to happen, but it certainly has. If he sells all 200k shares, percentage-wise, the impact is still small, but I agree, this can do naught but dilute the value of DMC shares.

I really doubt I can exchange all 200k shares this way. However, if someone wants to try, they are more than welcome.

I meant that if the rest of the shares are bought @ 1 BTC each, the effect of what bond exchanges have happened on DMC's assets would be negligible. Not enough bonds exist right now, so even if someone wanted to buy the remaining shares with bonds, they wouldn't be able to.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
May 17, 2012, 06:36:01 PM
Seems like a lot of people had the same idea as me:

Buy 2 shares of X for 0.6 BTC, trade them for 1 share of DMC and sell them for slightly less than 1 BTC...

I'm not really sure if you can keep up this model much longer without seriously hurting your IPO income.

I'm not sure this was intended to happen, but it certainly has. If he sells all 200k shares, percentage-wise, the impact is still small, but I agree, this can do naught but dilute the value of DMC shares.

I really doubt I can exchange all 200k shares this way. However, if someone wants to try, they are more than welcome.
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