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Topic: Diablo Mining Company - page 51. (Read 96370 times)

legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
April 21, 2012, 04:04:50 PM
#27
I'm generating 1 million shares no matter what.

Would you rather pay 1BTC for each now, and get 50% of mining output.... or pay market prices and get paid nothing for 10 years, 100% goes into growing the mining company, and I sell 1000 shares a month at market prices.

Did  I read that correctly?  10 million shares owned by you now, then sell 1K of those shares per month for 10 years, means you still have 856,000 shares after 10 years?

No, I said 1 million, not 10. Although, yes, it'd take 83 years.

Pretend I said 5,000 shares a month, that seems more reasonable, it would take almost 17 years to sell them off if I did my math right.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
April 21, 2012, 03:41:52 PM
#26
I'm generating 1 million shares no matter what.

Would you rather pay 1BTC for each now, and get 50% of mining output.... or pay market prices and get paid nothing for 10 years, 100% goes into growing the mining company, and I sell 1000 shares a month at market prices.

Did  I read that correctly?  10 1 million shares owned by you now, then sell 1K of those shares per month for 10 years, means you still have 856,000 shares after 10 years?
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
April 21, 2012, 03:24:10 PM
#25
So I want everyone's opinion on this. I'm generating 1 million shares no matter what.

Would you rather pay 1BTC for each now, and get 50% of mining output.... or pay market prices and get paid nothing for 10 years, 100% goes into growing the mining company, and I sell 1000 shares a month at market prices. After the 10 years, I pay 100% of the output minus expenses to run it?
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
April 21, 2012, 02:21:13 PM
#24
I think you'd be a good person to lead a long-term mining project, but I don't like how this is structured. The risk is much higher for early investors, since it isn't yet known whether your operation will be successful. Reasonable investors will wait until you start making profits and then buy shares at 1 BTC per share instead of buying them now at the same price. Even if you promised to increase the price later (maybe starting at a low price per share now), the price might still be too high given that each share will only get a millionth of the dividend eventually.

If I were you I'd get nanotube's advice on how to properly do something like this.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Ad astra.
April 21, 2012, 10:12:01 AM
#23
Yes, I'm aware it will take a LONG time to convert BTC into USD for much of my purpose. And yes, I'm aware how the VC process works (I know people who have gone the Silicon Valley startup route). I'm trying something new. I think it is going to be possible to crowd fund large scale business using Bitcoin without going through things like YC or Kickstarter.

What I'm planning on doing is building a small scale DC just to host mining hardware, but it is going to take quite some time to get there.

I'm willing to put the next 10 years of my life into this, I think Bitcoin has a future but it is going to take effort to get there.

Well, color me interested. Sorry for the cross-examining, just wanted to make sure you had some clue what you're doing, which you obviously do.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
April 21, 2012, 10:05:39 AM
#22
Well, I imagine 1m BTC worth of people want to continue profitably mining when no one else can. If I'm wrong, this is going to be a waste of 8BTC.

Alright, if we assume that you receive 1m BTC in your IPO, what do you plan to do with it? There's not enough liquidity to sell it immediately for USD, it would take a while and undoubtedly lower the exchange rate. If we assume you manage to sell it for ~4 million USD, what are you planning to buy? (And why do you expect us to trust you with that much? GLBSE ID verification and reputation on these forums is one thing, but you're moving to a scale far beyond that. Most start-ups requesting VC request under $1 million, and have to go through extensive processes to get it. You're asking for $4 million.)

Yes, I'm aware it will take a LONG time to convert BTC into USD for much of my purpose. And yes, I'm aware how the VC process works (I know people who have gone the Silicon Valley startup route). I'm trying something new. I think it is going to be possible to crowd fund large scale business using Bitcoin without going through things like YC or Kickstarter.

What I'm planning on doing is building a small scale DC just to host mining hardware, but it is going to take quite some time to get there.

I'm willing to put the next 10 years of my life into this, I think Bitcoin has a future but it is going to take effort to get there.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Ad astra.
April 21, 2012, 09:53:11 AM
#21
Well, I imagine 1m BTC worth of people want to continue profitably mining when no one else can. If I'm wrong, this is going to be a waste of 8BTC.

Alright, if we assume that you receive 1m BTC in your IPO, what do you plan to do with it? There's not enough liquidity to sell it immediately for USD, it would take a while and undoubtedly lower the exchange rate. If we assume you manage to sell it for ~4 million USD, what are you planning to buy? (And why do you expect us to trust you with that much? GLBSE ID verification and reputation on these forums is one thing, but you're moving to a scale far beyond that. Most start-ups requesting VC request under $1 million, and have to go through extensive processes to get it. You're asking for $4 million.)
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
April 21, 2012, 05:52:18 AM
#20
It sounds like you intend to build a long-term mining operation, which interests me. What's your plan for staying competitive in 4-8 years -- what'll give you an advantage over other miners? What hardware are you going to buy? Are you going to mine solo, use a pool (which one?), or use p2pool?

Probably solo if the farm gets as big as I want it to.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
April 21, 2012, 05:50:57 AM
#19
There is nothing in the contract to actually allow acquisitions, nor am I willing to entertain offers to do so either.

The only reason I have shares represent 0% of company assets as the assets, until the event of liquidation, are owned by the growth fund. Assets can be sold, replaced, decommissioned, or otherwise removed from the asset pool for any reason I deem necessary to continue profiting (such as upgrading, the hardware actually dying, switching from FPGA to ASIC, etc).

And yes, that includes selling not-quite-dead hardware on eBay and putting the proceeds back into the growth fund. The contract fully lets me do that, nothing in it lets me leaking asset value out through any method under than the depreciation of the assets themselves (ie, plugging them in and turning them on).

Now, you do bring up a good point, this agreement DOES allows me to purchase other mining companies and hold them as assets; but as I said, I would never entertain BEING purchased. I would rather liquidate the company than let it be purchased.

tl;dr: Shares only entitle you to dividends.

So, if you aren't trolling, can you explain (in all honesty) how you realistically plan to raise 1 million Bitcoins?

Well, I imagine 1m BTC worth of people want to continue profitably mining when no one else can. If I'm wrong, this is going to be a waste of 8BTC.
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
April 20, 2012, 09:07:20 PM
#18
It sounds like you intend to build a long-term mining operation, which interests me. What's your plan for staying competitive in 4-8 years -- what'll give you an advantage over other miners? What hardware are you going to buy? Are you going to mine solo, use a pool (which one?), or use p2pool?
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Ad astra.
April 20, 2012, 08:51:48 PM
#17
There is nothing in the contract to actually allow acquisitions, nor am I willing to entertain offers to do so either.

The only reason I have shares represent 0% of company assets as the assets, until the event of liquidation, are owned by the growth fund. Assets can be sold, replaced, decommissioned, or otherwise removed from the asset pool for any reason I deem necessary to continue profiting (such as upgrading, the hardware actually dying, switching from FPGA to ASIC, etc).

And yes, that includes selling not-quite-dead hardware on eBay and putting the proceeds back into the growth fund. The contract fully lets me do that, nothing in it lets me leaking asset value out through any method under than the depreciation of the assets themselves (ie, plugging them in and turning them on).

Now, you do bring up a good point, this agreement DOES allows me to purchase other mining companies and hold them as assets; but as I said, I would never entertain BEING purchased. I would rather liquidate the company than let it be purchased.

tl;dr: Shares only entitle you to dividends.

So, if you aren't trolling, can you explain (in all honesty) how you realistically plan to raise 1 million Bitcoins?
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
April 20, 2012, 07:37:56 PM
#16
How many GH/s does your mining operation currently have and how much should 1 share (out of how many) cost?

As a benchmark: 1 MH/s 100% PPS "forever" bonds currently are traded between 30 and 40 Bitcents.

Currently, less than 1 GH/sec. I'm obviously building this from the ground up.

There will be 1 million shares forever (I will not seek to ever create more), but I would like to get 1BTC each for them. Yes, I'm aware thats about 1/8th of currently circulating Bitcoins.

So, everyone has to invest into it at a $5,400,000 valuation, before it has grown above 1Gh/s...  You need to rethink your model.

Also, why do shares represent 0% of company assets.  This is odd.  You have outlined what happens during a liquidation event, what about an acquisition event?  The way you have written your offering, seems you may be able to legally sell all company assets to a third party, pocket the cash yourself (you are the only shareholder who owns assets), and leave other investors holding shares in an empty company with no assets or operations.

I don't think you are trying to be deceptive, but with shareholder agreements, you should very explicit and describe every possible case, so there are no misunderstandings.

There is nothing in the contract to actually allow acquisitions, nor am I willing to entertain offers to do so either.

The only reason I have shares represent 0% of company assets as the assets, until the event of liquidation, are owned by the growth fund. Assets can be sold, replaced, decommissioned, or otherwise removed from the asset pool for any reason I deem necessary to continue profiting (such as upgrading, the hardware actually dying, switching from FPGA to ASIC, etc).

And yes, that includes selling not-quite-dead hardware on eBay and putting the proceeds back into the growth fund. The contract fully lets me do that, nothing in it lets me leaking asset value out through any method under than the depreciation of the assets themselves (ie, plugging them in and turning them on).

Now, you do bring up a good point, this agreement DOES allows me to purchase other mining companies and hold them as assets; but as I said, I would never entertain BEING purchased. I would rather liquidate the company than let it be purchased.

tl;dr: Shares only entitle you to dividends.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Ad astra.
April 20, 2012, 07:24:47 PM
#15
I don't approve of Facebook, but it seems to be doing alright. Wink How are these two similar?
Overblown IPO. If Facebook manages to pull a 100 billion IPO off (and it looks like it) they could pay every one of their users more than 100 USD(!).

The difference is, however, that facebook will sell out quickly. 1 million shares @1BTC each probably won't, especially not with these terms. I might risk 8 coins too however and also start a trolling IPO and then (as I'm allowed in my contract) "sell" everything, take the money and laugh. Cool

You probably could do it without spending anything. Offer the bonds at a lower price to pre-IPO investors.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 20, 2012, 07:20:54 PM
#14
I don't approve of Facebook, but it seems to be doing alright. Wink How are these two similar?
Overblown IPO. If Facebook manages to pull a 100 billion IPO off (and it looks like it) they could pay every one of their users more than 100 USD(!).

The difference is, however, that facebook will sell out quickly. 1 million shares @1BTC each probably won't, especially not with these terms. I might risk 8 coins too however and also start a trolling IPO and then (as I'm allowed in my contract) "sell" everything, take the money and laugh. Cool
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Ad astra.
April 20, 2012, 07:19:26 PM
#13
At first, I was going to say obvious troll thread is obvious, but then I see that the company is actually listed on GLBSE. Now all I have to say is lol.

20 BTC for some elaborate trolling isn't necessarily too high a price to pay.

glbse registration fee is 8BTC

marked

Used be 20BTC, my error. Thanks for pointing it out. Even more likely to be trolling then.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
April 20, 2012, 07:16:31 PM
#12
At first, I was going to say obvious troll thread is obvious, but then I see that the company is actually listed on GLBSE. Now all I have to say is lol.

20 BTC for some elaborate trolling isn't necessarily too high a price to pay.

glbse registration fee is 8BTC

marked
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Ad astra.
April 20, 2012, 07:14:09 PM
#11
To compete with current payouts from bonds he needs to build a 6 TH/s farm quite fast from 0... Roll Eyes

I personally see this going nowhere.

From 1 GH. His farm needs to increase by a factor of 6000. I agree with you on the second part.

Oh wow, that changes everything of course! Roll Eyes

No, but it seemed necessary to correct. I want Diablo to address this.

Does staff around here get some discounts on silkroad or something?! Tongue

ROFL. You be trolling.

Anyways, this sounds like the facebook of mining companies!

I don't approve of Facebook, but it seems to be doing alright. Wink How are these two similar?
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
April 20, 2012, 07:08:57 PM
#10
To compete with current payouts from bonds he needs to build a 6 TH/s farm quite fast from 0... Roll Eyes

I personally see this going nowhere.

From 1 GH. His farm needs to increase by a factor of 6000. I agree with you on the second part.

Oh wow, that changes everything of course! Roll Eyes

Does staff around here get some discounts on silkroad or something?! Tongue
Anyways, this sounds like the facebook of mining companies!
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Ad astra.
April 20, 2012, 07:04:05 PM
#9
To compete with current payouts from bonds he needs to build a 6 TH/s farm quite fast from 0... Roll Eyes

I personally see this going nowhere.

From 1 GH. His farm needs to increase by a factor of 6000. I agree with you on the second part.

At first, I was going to say obvious troll thread is obvious, but then I see that the company is actually listed on GLBSE. Now all I have to say is lol.

20 BTC for some elaborate trolling isn't necessarily too high a price to pay.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
April 20, 2012, 07:03:18 PM
#8
At first, I was going to say obvious troll thread is obvious, but then I see that the company is actually listed on GLBSE. Now all I have to say is lol.
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