SHA-1 has been shown to be weak. SHA-2, used in Bitcoin, has not been broken.
OHH if SHA-2 has been broken we simply do not discuss here at all.
a half of number of rounds during SHA-2 computing has just been broken.
Topic: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small - page 10. (Read 31343 times)
SHA-1 has been shown to be weak. SHA-2, used in Bitcoin, has not been broken.
OHH if SHA-2 has been broken we simply do not discuss here at all.
a half of number of rounds during SHA-2 computing has just been broken.
But, what does this have to do with mining?
Your rant seems to be about the issue that new people can't mine profitably. Person number 20.001 will trust in bitcoins because 20.000 people already trust in it, not because 20.000 are mining.
Your rant seems to be about the issue that new people can't mine profitably. Person number 20.001 will trust in bitcoins because 20.000 people already trust in it, not because 20.000 are mining.
Psychology is NOT mathematical induction. And bitcoin is NOT a gold. Number of trust people will not increase just because 20 000 people already trust. You must represent them a psychological kind of ownership. I know too ways - mining & zombie-hypnosis.
Simply, 20 000 trusters in 6 000 000 000 world is UNseriously for GLOBAL currency, but is acceptable for a financial pyramid.
I'm sure there are some people who are mining, but still don't think the bitcoin will be around in 10 years.
Sure too. But for me, FEW days ago, mining was profitable, and FEW days later will NOT. See, DAYS, DAYS, DAYS. not even months!!!
This is the problem - difficulty doubling time interval is DAYS.
Are you saying that the mining is the only way people can learn about bitcoin and start to use it?
What method do you propose that would allow million people to mine profitably. Each gets his fair share? How?
What method do you propose that would allow million people to mine profitably. Each gets his fair share? How?
Because of bitcoin complete digital unmaterial nature, I see the only way - to normalize algorithm to allow profitable mining for 1 million people on time interval at least 1 year. NOT DAYS! NOT 10 000 people!
People trust bitcoin because the math is so difficult that it requires a lot of time, even when the entire world gets together to throw a massive amount of computing power at the hashing.
It really makes no difference if a thousand people are participating in mining, or a billion. What matters is that it can't be faked.
It really makes no difference if a thousand people are participating in mining, or a billion. What matters is that it can't be faked.
It's MAIN mistake! People trust in bitcoin because 10 000 - 20 000 OTHER people already trust!
But, what does this have to do with mining?
Your rant seems to be about the issue that new people can't mine profitably. Person number 20.001 will trust in bitcoins because 20.000 people already trust in it, not because 20.000 are mining.
I'm sure there are some people who are mining, but still don't think the bitcoin will be around in 10 years.
Are you saying that the mining is the only way people can learn about bitcoin and start to use it?
What method do you propose that would allow million people to mine profitably. Each gets his fair share? How?
And you leave no way to join to trust in bitcoin. The only method - allow mining to be profitable to MILLIONS of people at time intervals YEARS, not DAYS
Ok, I will personally ALLOW you to mine bitcoins profitably.
SHA-1 has been shown to be weak. SHA-2, used in Bitcoin, has not been broken.
People trust Bitcoin because it is secure, not because they are mining it themselves.
It's MAIN mistake! People trust in bitcoin because 10 000 - 20 000 OTHER people already trust!
SHA-256 is partially broken, and algorithms themselves do almost nothing with trust. Did you study psychology?
algorithms lead earlier adopters - miners & brokers - to trust in, because they were geeks.
ps. do you know SHA-256 is partially broken ?
citation needed.edit: how exactly can you "partially break" a hash function?
Isn't this the reason why the transaction fees exist? Won't the fees subsidize the increased difficulty/reduced rewards for mining?
Remember, when all bitcoins will be mined, transaction fees are the ONLY source of profit. Of course.
but @ 10 000 miners & trusters, we should reject all second-order arguments, but focus only on number of miners & trusters.
bitcoin specifics is number of miners ~ (roughly equal) number of trusters. due to digital, non-material nature of bitcoin.
it's just psychology effect, but no one cares, if bitcoin system fails with it's 10 000 - 20 000 adopters.
ps. do you know SHA-256 is partially broken ?
I just say, I even proove, with current algorithm, bitcoin system will fail down somewhere in 2012, probably at switch 50 BTC to 25 BTC per block. More exactly - when mining will reach unprofitable against electrical power, with typical hardware for newbie - 5850x2 or 5970.
It happens because number of people who confirm value of bitcoin is comparable with number of miners. And this situation does NOT take place with Gold. ALL people on Earth trust in gold value. 20 000 people trust in bitcoin value.
And you leave no way to join to trust in bitcoin. The only method - allow mining to be profitable to MILLIONS of people at time intervals YEARS, not DAYS (see difficalty rate & prognosis).
It happens because number of people who confirm value of bitcoin is comparable with number of miners. And this situation does NOT take place with Gold. ALL people on Earth trust in gold value. 20 000 people trust in bitcoin value.
And you leave no way to join to trust in bitcoin. The only method - allow mining to be profitable to MILLIONS of people at time intervals YEARS, not DAYS (see difficalty rate & prognosis).
People trust Bitcoin because it is secure, not because they are mining it themselves.
I just say, I even proove, with current algorithm, bitcoin system will fail down somewhere in 2012, probably at switch 50 BTC to 25 BTC per block. More exactly - when mining will reach unprofitable against electrical power, with typical hardware for newbie - 5850x2 or 5970.
It happens because number of people who confirm value of bitcoin is comparable with number of miners. And this situation does NOT take place with Gold. ALL people on Earth trust in gold value. 20 000 people trust in bitcoin value.
And you leave no way to join to trust in bitcoin. The only method - allow mining to be profitable to MILLIONS of people at time intervals YEARS, not DAYS (see difficalty rate & prognosis).
It happens because number of people who confirm value of bitcoin is comparable with number of miners. And this situation does NOT take place with Gold. ALL people on Earth trust in gold value. 20 000 people trust in bitcoin value.
And you leave no way to join to trust in bitcoin. The only method - allow mining to be profitable to MILLIONS of people at time intervals YEARS, not DAYS (see difficalty rate & prognosis).
I think aftherburner229 is right.
And the group of people thinking this and acting on it, will increase.
Also a few people (the pre-goldrush users, seniors and moderators of this forum) try to protect their investments/wealth, are not objective, this stands in the way of a bitcoin breakthrough.
people will stop mining when it gets unprofitable. This will reduce the ratio of miners / non-miners. Making the economy stable again.
Edit: you are also forgetting about technology advances that improve mining. They increase the difficulty _while_ reducing the total number of people mining. (That was seen when many people dropped out when CPU mining became unprofitable).
Edit: you are also forgetting about technology advances that improve mining. They increase the difficulty _while_ reducing the total number of people mining. (That was seen when many people dropped out when CPU mining became unprofitable).
"There aren't enough people in the Bitcoin community" is correct. But it is relatively new, and so this is to be expected.
Also, you are conflating the Bitcoin mining community with the Bitcoin community itself. They are not the same. Mining is not the point of Bitcoin. You don't have to be a miner to be involved with Bitcoin.
If mining becomes unprofitable for its electric power, either the difficulty will drop (as people stop mining) or the value of Bicoins will increase. It's self-correcting.
Miners are not the entirety of the Bitcoin community. I do not mine and I trust Bitcoin for a fraction of my wealth.
Also, you are conflating the Bitcoin mining community with the Bitcoin community itself. They are not the same. Mining is not the point of Bitcoin. You don't have to be a miner to be involved with Bitcoin.
If mining becomes unprofitable for its electric power, either the difficulty will drop (as people stop mining) or the value of Bicoins will increase. It's self-correcting.
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It happens because number of people who confirm value of bitcoin is comparable with number of miners. And this situation does NOT take place with Gold. ALL people on Earth trust in gold value. 20 000 people trust in bitcoin value.
And you leave no way to join to trust in bitcoin. The only method - allow mining to be profitable to MILLIONS of people at time intervals YEARS, not DAYS (see difficalty rate & prognosis).
And you leave no way to join to trust in bitcoin. The only method - allow mining to be profitable to MILLIONS of people at time intervals YEARS, not DAYS (see difficalty rate & prognosis).
Miners are not the entirety of the Bitcoin community. I do not mine and I trust Bitcoin for a fraction of my wealth.
I'm sorry man, I just can't understand what it is that you are trying to say. I think you are upset that you missed the goldrush. But we can't make the block hashing easier just to give you another shot at mining riches.
I just say, I even proove, with current algorithm, bitcoin system will fail down somewhere in 2012, probably at switch 50 BTC to 25 BTC per block. More exactly - when mining will reach unprofitable against electrical power, with typical hardware for newbie - 5850x2 or 5970.
It happens because number of people who confirm value of bitcoin is comparable with number of miners. And this situation does NOT take place with Gold. ALL people on Earth trust in gold value. 20 000 people trust in bitcoin value.
And you leave no way to join to trust in bitcoin. The only method - allow mining to be profitable to MILLIONS of people at time intervals YEARS, not DAYS (see difficalty rate & prognosis).
So you're saying you would be more confident about bitcoin if there was a larger percentage of non-miners? I might agree to that, but I don't think we need to be yelling about the sky falling just yet. The economy is growing.
Isn't this the reason why the transaction fees exist? Won't the fees subsidize the increased difficulty/reduced rewards for mining?
I'm sorry man, I just can't understand what it is that you are trying to say. I think you are upset that you missed the goldrush. But we can't make the block hashing easier just to give you another shot at mining riches.
I just say, I even proove, with current algorithm, bitcoin system will fail down somewhere in 2012, probably at switch 50 BTC to 25 BTC per block. More exactly - when mining will reach unprofitable against electrical power, with typical hardware for newbie - 5850x2 or 5970.
It happens because number of people who confirm value of bitcoin is comparable with number of miners. And this situation does NOT take place with Gold. ALL people on Earth trust in gold value. 20 000 people trust in bitcoin value.
And you leave no way to join to trust in bitcoin. The only method - allow mining to be profitable to MILLIONS of people at time intervals YEARS, not DAYS (see difficalty rate & prognosis).
I'm sorry man, I just can't understand what it is that you are trying to say. I think you are upset that you missed the goldrush. But we can't make the block hashing easier just to give you another shot at mining riches.
...the value of bitcoin is confirmed by 10 000 people....
Pff. No it isn't. If you offered most people here 100,000 USD worth of Bitcoins or 50,000 USD worth of Gold and 50,000 worth of Bitcoins, I bet they'd take the diversified risk.
There are simply 10,000 (or whatever) people who have sufficient faith in Bitcoin to make it part of their personal economic decisions.
See my comment below - if there are only 10 000 miners in the world frozen, I do not trust in bitcoin, because number of people who confirm value of bitcoin is COMPARABLE to number of miners. It is not a rule, it's just happen for bitcoin historically.
(!) For gold, number of people who confirm value >> number of miners.
With digital currency you never achive Gold rate of confirmation, at 10 000 people who mine.
what has all of this todo with mining?
there's no 6 000 000 000 Earth's citizens mining gold, that's just a few hundred.
bitcoin is not about mining coins, it's about transferring coins.
you don't need to mine bitcoins to value bitcoins.
there's no 6 000 000 000 Earth's citizens mining gold, that's just a few hundred.
bitcoin is not about mining coins, it's about transferring coins.
you don't need to mine bitcoins to value bitcoins.
Yes, there's no 6 000 000 000 Earth's citizens mining gold, that's just a few hundred.
But 6 000 000 000 Earth's citizens CONFIRM value of Gold.
And only 10-20 000 people, according of what percentage do not mine, just sell or buy bitcoins & goods, CONFIRM value of bitcoin.
If number of miners will be frozen by the current algorithm, number of people who trust in bitcoin, will be drop down - just at 25 BTW per block switch. So I proove, bitcoin is just financial 'pyramid', if you do not change current algorithm.
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