Topic: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small - page 7. (Read 31343 times)

Picture you describe will take place in FEW weeks, with current algorithm. So only the pilferers of electricity power will be frofitable in FEW weeks. Now there are some 10 000 miners, how much pilferers will remain? 1 000 ?!

LOL. "secure currency" being mined by .. 1000 pilferers world-wide.))))

People, wake up!

When bitcoins are worth only a mere US$10 each, happening to win a block would be a win of US$500.

If you actually *invest*, long term, as you seem to plan to have your million high-IQ people do, instead of living rig-to-new-hardware selling off your bitcoins instead of sitting on them until they go up to at least ten times the value they had when you actually mined them, then yes you might see mining as unprofitable, because by being so short-sighted you will be competing with all kinds of wannabe-get-rich-quick people who are trying to make a quick profit in only a year or few instead of looking at it as a long term business and bearing in mind that typically long term businesses need at least a couple of years to break even (and then benefit from the huge percent of their competitors who dropped out before even lasting a couple of years in the biz).

If you figure it is a long term good investment, you surely ought to be figuring the coins you mine will be worth at least ten times as much within oh gosh maybe less than a decade even than when you initially mined them.

So if you do happen to luck into a block when it is only worth US$500, you will be thinking oh cool, that is at least US$5000 in my mind as I don't expect to sell it until it *is* worth at least that...

Most competitors will be thinking shorter term, and maybe running equipment they intend to burn out in only a few years instead of running gear optimised to last a decade or two. (Maybe heating units for the winter and solar units for summer, heat pump engines recycling heat, industrial 24/7 chips instead of gamer chips intended to be used flat out only a few hours a day, and so on.)

Thinking of high IQ long term investors burning out units not intended for flat out 24/7 use seems a little oxymoronic. Can you run ten times as many units at one tenth duty cycle or one tenth power or something and make them last more than ten times as long or something? Or just build units with 24/7 duty cycle in mind from the chip-design up? Or *something* more intelligent than abusing consumer low duty cycle hardware?

(How about your million smart people each put a dollar or few toward a specially designed chipset and a datacentre to put it in, forming a mining corporation they each buy into?)

-MarkM-

just hope he don't plan to kill anyone knowing about BTC.
/duck & hide.

I say, we need completely re-normalize current mining (BTC-mass/per unit time) algorithm by two functions - linear increasing one (while less than 90% gold-BTC has been mined) and exponetial decreasing one (when more than 90% gold-BTC will be mined).

For now, How does difficulty know about total_mining_power, to auto-adjust for 1 block generation per 10 min?
I suggest, current decentralized algorithm CAN estimate current total_mining_power.

so you don't want average joe involved with BTC?

No, it is another great mistake - to arbitrary distribute coins among at least a million people before allowing an arms-war to start among them.

We need 1 000 000 people of high quality & IQ, each:
- can invest his OWN money to ATI-GPU miner, some $1000
- can install mining software on it
- can support mining uptime close to 99% per unit time for YEARS
- can become a permanent peer, when mining will be unprofitable

fair enough... either fixed amount of btc per block and variable block generation times, or the other way around.

He's saying difficulty is too high. If difficulty were lowered, there would be more blocks being created per hour.

If he wants what you describe, that also can't work. It would lead to bitcoins being almost worthless, and few people accepting them in exchange for goods/services because of their rapid inflation.

The most efficient miners will set the profitability, im afraid the most profitable miners right now are those who dont pay for electricity, the kids in their parents basements or at their companies or whereever no one cares. The rest of you who pay for electricity and/or maintenance will soon cease to be profitable. good thing i dont have to pay for electricity or maintenance, my mining rig is infinitely profitable right now.

How exactly would one get (uncompromised) total_mining_power (in a decentralized system)?

Oh guys, I see you STARTED with exponetial decrease of mining mass BTC. LOL)) Do you EVER think?!

Okay, lets tailor a blockchain-based currency to address your concerns.

Mostly it seems you want to distribute coins among at least a million people before allowing an arms-war to start among them whereby they compete with each other to enrich processor manufacturers instead of each other.

How about this:

- Our AfterburnerCoin system will not recognise a coin-production transaction as valid unless it designates a specific address as beneficiary, or one of a "jury of peers" of addresses maybe.

- The institution / committee / whatever controlling that address or those addresses commits to issuing the coins to many people, no more than 21 coins per person, so that a million people are required in order for all 21 million coins to be issued.

(Or even, only 1 per person so a million people can be equipped with one when only 1/21 of the total have even been minted yet.)

-MarkM- (Or a faucet issues them, oh wait, that is already done, did you get your free faucet money yet?)

(Weird, firefox thinks faucet isn't a word, maybe I somehow have set it not to use an American dictionary?)

(If so, what is it in English? A tap, I guess?)

P.S. How to get rich quick with such a system: (1) Tell people they can get a free [something] from you simply by picking up free coin at a faucet and giving it to you in return for that [something].

Let me some time to think about an idea.

Consider real Gold. While we have mined 1/3 of total gold, the mass of the gold being mined per unit time, in the total world, depends on total mining power. NOT constant mass being mined per unit time:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mass_per_time = k * total_mining_power, where k = const, mass of mined gold < 90%
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
When we have mined 90% of total gold, the mass of the gold being mined per unit time starts to decrease exponentially:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mass_per_time = mass_per_time (mass of mined gold = 90%) * exp (- time/1_YEAR), mass of mined gold >= 90%
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(don't be afraid about if we get not 100% EXACTLY - exponential function DOES make upper boundary - just re-normalize)

Look in to the history - 90% of total gold mined was reached on time interval few CENTURYs.

Of course, we apparently do not want wait for century. 90% bitcoins must be mined in 5-10 years due to world-wide political reasons & crysis. This is normalization for k = const, mentioned above.

So the new algorithm is almost ready!

50 blocks per hour would not help. What he wants is increasing amount of coins mined per hour, eg. 50 coins/10 minutes now and 100 coins/10 minutes 14 days from now. This just can't work.

If "afterburner229" have better code for us to examine we will be very pleased.

If you understand psychological part of problem, technical part is not problem at all.

Bitcoin even support different versions of protocols.

I am not strong in bitcoin algorithms. So YOU may think how to make 1 000 000 miners in the field possible, with no dependance on their mining power.

Imagine, IBM were interested in bitcoin in earlier stages. Then, IBM connects all their super-computers to mining. So, Average Joe could not enter into the field even in earlier stage. In current stage, we would see IBM plus 100 individual miners.

Understand, bitcoin algorithm is VERY vulnerable, self-collapsing, and it's vulnerability does NOT lie in cryptographic plane of view.

It would not work. You can't have 50 blocks being created every hour. It causes problems for the network. The difficulty HAS to adjust to how quickly blocks are being created, in order to keep block generation at one per 10 minutes.

"Satoshi" chose Hash/s because he is a geek, specialist in mathematics only.

Bitcoin society needs specialists in psychology too.
Normalization by just Hash/s is WRONG. Although, it could spark, if there no ATI GPUs on the market. but they are.

If "Satoshi" were studying psychology, he normalized the algorithm, to allow 1 000 000 miners come into field, with no dependance of power of ATI GPUs.

Compare with real gold: individual gold-digger finds an instrument, that increases his individual gold mining in 100 times - from 7 Mhash/s to 700 Mhash/s - on the time interval of ONE day - time to buy ATI GPU and install phoenix-like software.

Only ONE man developed that software, say, for months & years. But ONCE the software is available for free download, each average Joe can increase his real gold mining power up to 100 times in ONE day.

Just think by head & compute numbers.

Now, I have understood, why,
difficulty is being increased on time interval FEW days! It's JUST average time for average Joe to buy ATI GPI, download free software, and start mining.

And sure, TODAY you can see that number of miners increases too. BUT, this process will continue for FEW days (weeks).

Then, mining will fall down, because of almost zero profit AND unabling to output large amounts of $.

And the bitcoin society will be frozen in some 10-20 000 (ok, let 50 000) miners & acceptors, on the time interfal FEW weeks.

This is mathematical theorem according to current difficulty algorithm!

LOL))) I've asked how to mine, too!!

But watching current difficulty increase rate, and current profit decrease rate (@ time interval = FEW DAYS), both in BTC & $ (despite $/BTC rises), I NEVER ENTER.

Because, according to current politics, there is no chance to expand bitcoin society up from some 10 000 people mining & accepting boundary!

Compute, ATI GPUs made HUGE bias to HIGH difficulty, that can NOT be reached profitably for 1 000 000 Average Joes, that SHOULD be the base for bitcoin society!

Mumber of miners & acceptors will be frozen near 10 000 people boundary.