Topic: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small - page 9. (Read 31398 times)
Wake up and stop trolling
Did you read all my posts? I answered, I do not trust in 10 000 bitcoin accepters & miners, I will provide goods for dollars, because 6 000 000 000 people world-wide accept dollars. Even in Russia 
I am, average Joe, will trust in bitcoin, only if I can mine bitcoin profitably. Gold & dollars are historically trusted, bitcoin is NOT.
For bitcoin - can't mine <=> can't trust. In CURRENT difficulty rate situation. In CURRENT number of bitcoin acceptors.
I am, average Joe, will trust in bitcoin, only if I can mine bitcoin profitably. Gold & dollars are historically trusted, bitcoin is NOT.
For bitcoin - can't mine <=> can't trust. In CURRENT difficulty rate situation. In CURRENT number of bitcoin acceptors.
Oh, so you're crazy.
Real gold mining is unprofitable for most people, so if they want gold, they provide goods and services in exchange for other peoples' gold.
Why don't you try selling stuff on biddingpond.com or bitcoin classifieds?
Why don't you try selling stuff on biddingpond.com or bitcoin classifieds?
Did you read all my posts? I answered, I do not trust in 10 000 bitcoin accepters & miners, I will provide goods for dollars, because 6 000 000 000 people world-wide accept dollars. Even in Russia
I am, average Joe, will trust in bitcoin, only if I can mine bitcoin profitably. Gold & dollars are historically trusted, bitcoin is NOT.
For bitcoin - can't mine <=> can't trust. In CURRENT difficulty rate situation. In CURRENT number of bitcoin acceptors.
Total BTC already mined is 6.306 mln. from 21 mln.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
Imagine just 1/3 real gold is mined, and individual mining is unprofitable, but FEW days ago it was profitable @ 7:1 per individual gold-miner (per electricity cost).
THINK!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
Imagine just 1/3 real gold is mined, and individual mining is unprofitable, but FEW days ago it was profitable @ 7:1 per individual gold-miner (per electricity cost).
THINK!
IMAGINE REAL GOLD MINING BECOMES UNPROFITABLE FOR INDIVIDUAL GOLD-DIGGER IN TIME INTERVAL OF FEW DAYS.
while total number of gold-diggers is 10 000 in 6 000 000 000 world.
guys can you think by head?
while total number of gold-diggers is 10 000 in 6 000 000 000 world.
guys can you think by head?
Real gold mining is unprofitable for most people, so if they want gold, they provide goods and services in exchange for other peoples' gold.
Why don't you try selling stuff on biddingpond.com or bitcoin classifieds?
IMAGINE REAL GOLD MINING BECOMES UNPROFITABLE FOR INDIVIDUAL GOLD-DIGGER IN TIME INTERVAL OF FEW DAYS.
while total number of gold-diggers is 10 000 in 6 000 000 000 world.
guys can you think by head?
while total number of gold-diggers is 10 000 in 6 000 000 000 world.
guys can you think by head?
I just read this whole thread again, and I still can't understand your point, apart from missing out on the goldrush.
Yes, I say APPARENTLY - I am missing out on the goldrush, because FEW days ago difficult was 244000, and FEW days prognosis is 380000.
Few days ago I could be miner, few days later I never could.
I do not what to do something most profitable than mining, because I do not trust to 10 000 bitcoin miners/accepters worldwide - I need some 1 000 000 worldwide, in 6 000 000 000 world!
And I am that EXACTLY average Joe with $1000 for 5850x2 or 5970 miner rig.
Do you want you 10 000 guys will manage the world?! Bitcoin is a monopoly much stronger than dollar?!
All right, well since you don't know what you're talking about and have no interest in learning, I wish you good luck. Bye
Estimated 386297 in 894 blks
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
No problem! I see you understand EXACTLY what I talking about - you are just pyramid gamer, you do not care that bitcoin failure will discredit the whole idea of decentrolized distributed currency in eye of 6 000 000 000 average Joes.
I just read this whole thread again, and I still can't understand your point, apart from missing out on the goldrush.
All right, well since you don't know what you're talking about and have no interest in learning, I wish you good luck. Bye
Changing "difficulty" in that way would break Bitcoin. Perhaps you should study it more closely.
As for Russia, btcex.com disappeared because its operator was apparently a scammer, who also was apparently involved somehow in DDoS attacks on some other Bitcoin exchanges. Lots of people lost money when btcex.com closed. This is unfortunate.
Perhaps instead of complaining about mining being unprofitable, you should do something that IS profitable, like open a new exchange and run it honestly?
As for Russia, btcex.com disappeared because its operator was apparently a scammer, who also was apparently involved somehow in DDoS attacks on some other Bitcoin exchanges. Lots of people lost money when btcex.com closed. This is unfortunate.
Perhaps instead of complaining about mining being unprofitable, you should do something that IS profitable, like open a new exchange and run it honestly?
Exactly no!
I know, algorithm change is a HUGE problem. Not technical one - bitcoin supports several protocol vrsions. You, 10 000 miners & adopters, will loose profit in a short-interval future. And long-interval future is DIM at all for all business.
So if you advice me "do something else (but mining) that IS profitable", in context of difficult-doubling interval of FEW days, and bitcoin adopters of FEW 10 000 people world-wide - it carries out a "message" following:
"we know about the problem, but we are pyramid gamers, and just try to output our money, to save our short-interval profit."
wake up! this politics will apparently kill bitcoin far soon than somewhere in 2012, @ 50-to-20 BTC per block switch.
----------------
Currently, the best public attacks break 41 of the 64 rounds of SHA-256 or 46 of the 80 rounds of SHA-512, as discussed in the "Cryptanalysis and Validation" section below.[10]
----------------
--from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sha-256
those attacks have time complexity of 2^500. Hardly a threat. (especially when birthday paradox tells you probabilistic attack has (expected) time complexity of 2^256) Currently, the best public attacks break 41 of the 64 rounds of SHA-256 or 46 of the 80 rounds of SHA-512, as discussed in the "Cryptanalysis and Validation" section below.[10]
----------------
--from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sha-256
Again, please post a link showing what you're claiming. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, but the Wikipedia link does not mention this. In fact, the link you post says "these attacks have not been successfully extended to SHA-2."
----------------
Currently, the best public attacks break 41 of the 64 rounds of SHA-256 or 46 of the 80 rounds of SHA-512, as discussed in the "Cryptanalysis and Validation" section below.[10]
----------------
--from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sha-256
but this is academical interest only, because I mentioned, whether sha-256 and bitcoin at all is cryptographically strong or not - is just psychological motivation for earlier bitcoin adopters because they are geeks. ang geeks trust in mathematics.
Average Joe is stupidly counting number of people who accept bitcoins worldwide and who mine worldwide.
Changing "difficulty" in that way would break Bitcoin. Perhaps you should study it more closely.
As for Russia, btcex.com disappeared because its operator was apparently a scammer, who also was apparently involved somehow in DDoS attacks on some other Bitcoin exchanges. Lots of people lost money when btcex.com closed. This is unfortunate.
Perhaps instead of complaining about mining being unprofitable, you should do something that IS profitable, like open a new exchange and run it honestly?
As for Russia, btcex.com disappeared because its operator was apparently a scammer, who also was apparently involved somehow in DDoS attacks on some other Bitcoin exchanges. Lots of people lost money when btcex.com closed. This is unfortunate.
Perhaps instead of complaining about mining being unprofitable, you should do something that IS profitable, like open a new exchange and run it honestly?
This is not so. The average Joe only cares that his paper currency can be taken to another store next week or next month and buy (almost) as much as he had to give to get it. For the average Joe, the relative difficulty in counterfitting is only important in that same context.
So I see you start to understand me.
But yet I don't know are you honest person or just a pyramid gamer. That's ok because of anonymous nature of our discussion and bitcoin too.
See, average Joe TRUSTs his paper currency can be taken to another store next week or next month. I am average Joe, and I just count number of people who accept bitcoins - the number is some 10 000. In my country, Russia, the only bitcoin excange btcex.com is CLOSED. Reason is dim. Beeing average Joe I simply do NOT trust in bitcoin as currency, in CURRENT moment with 10 000 other trusters.
But what can I do else? Reject bitcoin at all. Or.. MINING!
Consider current situation, there are some 10 000 miners. FEW days ago I could be miner. FEW days later I never can, with current algorithm of difficulty.
When you understand, these FEW days of difficulty-doubling interval is the problem, and 10 000 people in the 6 000 000 000 world who accept bitcoins is the problem.
I see the only way - normalize difficulty algorithm to allow profitable mining for 1 000 000 people around a world. at least. And I sure this is win-win way for all of us.
In the future, most miners will become peers, when all bitcoin will be mined. So transaction fees (for transaction to pass quickly) will be low.
Current algorithm of difficult makes it untrustable to enter in bitcoin world, so it will fail at 10 000 miners & 10 000 trusters/accepters of bitcoin world-wide.
SHA-1 has been shown to be weak. SHA-2, used in Bitcoin, has not been broken.
OHH if SHA-2 has been broken we simply do not discuss here at all.
a half of number of rounds during SHA-2 computing has just been broken.
Again, please post a link showing what you're claiming. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, but the Wikipedia link does not mention this. In fact, the link you post says "these attacks have not been successfully extended to SHA-2."
SHA-1 has been shown to be weak. SHA-2, used in Bitcoin, has not been broken.
OHH if SHA-2 has been broken we simply do not discuss here at all.
a half of number of rounds during SHA-2 computing has just been broken.
Again, please post a link showing what you're claiming. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, but the Wikipedia link does not mention this. In fact, the link you post says "these attacks have not been successfully extended to SHA-2."
People trust bitcoin because the math is so difficult that it requires a lot of time, even when the entire world gets together to throw a massive amount of computing power at the hashing.
It really makes no difference if a thousand people are participating in mining, or a billion. What matters is that it can't be faked.
It really makes no difference if a thousand people are participating in mining, or a billion. What matters is that it can't be faked.
Understand you, but disagree. only geeks take care it can't be faked.
Paper's dollars can be faked. But people trust in them because everyone MUST accept it as a currency media.
This is not so. The average Joe only cares that his paper currency can be taken to another store next week or next month and buy (almost) as much as he had to give to get it. For the average Joe, the relative difficulty in counterfitting is only important in that same context.
People trust bitcoin because the math is so difficult that it requires a lot of time, even when the entire world gets together to throw a massive amount of computing power at the hashing.
It really makes no difference if a thousand people are participating in mining, or a billion. What matters is that it can't be faked.
It really makes no difference if a thousand people are participating in mining, or a billion. What matters is that it can't be faked.
Understand you, but disagree. only geeks take care it can't be faked.
Paper's dollars can be faked. But people trust in them because everyone MUST accept it as a currency media.
When you understand, that whether bitcoin can be faked or not - is just psychological reason to trust for FIRST adopters, that are simply geeks?!
SHA-1 has been shown to be weak. SHA-2, used in Bitcoin, has not been broken.
OHH if SHA-2 has been broken we simply do not discuss here at all.
a half of number of rounds during SHA-2 computing has just been broken.
If this is true, the mining software can be updated and we will double the hashing power of the mining network overnight. Bitcoin will remain just as secure.
Jump to: