AND FEW MONTHS TILL 2012 TO OBSERVE THE END OF DECAY.
Ok, guys, I think he finally got the point. And he predicts that 2012 will be a good year for bitcoin.
Topic: difficulty too high while bitcoin society too small - page 4. (Read 31343 times)
Ok, guys, I think he finally got the point. And he predicts that 2012 will be a good year for bitcoin.
i don't know fuck all about mining and rigs but i bought a handful of coins and probably paid a lot less than what a rig setup costs and now i'm happily in the game and have zero interest in mining whatsoever. I'm average Joe to a T
Let me say it one last time: NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU.
TRUE.
but count mumbers: 6 000 000 000 Earth citizen minus 10 000 bitcoin society members ARE LIKE ME, 'average Joe'.
The rest 10 000 bitcoin society members spread world-wide, ARE LIKE YOU.
WHY do you RAGE just because I advice to increase number of miners in the game from 10 000 to 1 000 000?
you CAN normalize mining profit to be VERY small, BUT roughly CONSTANT in time interval FEW years, or half a year, to allow 1 000 000 members to join the bitcoin society.
BUT you does close the society. I know WHY.
Heh. I've got like 4 BTC to my name, and I earn about another 0.5 per day mining (for now). I missed the goldrush too, but I'm not all butthurt about it like you are.
BECAUSE NO ONE PERSON READS ME PEDANTICALLY, THIS IS MY LAST POST.
JUST WAIT FEW WEEKS TO OBSERVE THE START OF BITCOIN DECAY AND FEW MONTHS TILL 2012 TO OBSERVE THE END OF DECAY.
BYE.
JUST WAIT FEW WEEKS TO OBSERVE THE START OF BITCOIN DECAY AND FEW MONTHS TILL 2012 TO OBSERVE THE END OF DECAY.
BYE.
Sigh... you want us to read your posts "overly concerned with formal rules and trivial points of learning"? Because that's what "pedantic" means...
But you are wrong. The difficulty changes will make mining profitable for only the most efficient miners. If the exchange rate stays the same, the difficulty will increase until mining is only profitable to those who do it the best.
What you want is mining to be profitable to everyone for a very long time! That's insane and impossible to sustain.
Don't you understand, that if mining were allowed to be so easy, and the rate of new coin introduction was always going up, the price of Bitcoin would go down, defeating the whole point you are trying to achieve in the first place!
No one is going to buy something that is super easy to get. So no one is going to want to mine that junk. Damn dude...
What you want is mining to be profitable to everyone for a very long time! That's insane and impossible to sustain.
Don't you understand, that if mining were allowed to be so easy, and the rate of new coin introduction was always going up, the price of Bitcoin would go down, defeating the whole point you are trying to achieve in the first place!
No one is going to buy something that is super easy to get. So no one is going to want to mine that junk. Damn dude...
BECAUSE NO ONE PERSON READS ME PEDANTICALLY, THIS IS MY LAST POST.
JUST WAIT FEW WEEKS TO OBSERVE THE START OF BITCOIN DECAY AND FEW MONTHS TILL 2012 TO OBSERVE THE END OF DECAY.
BYE.
Quote from: afterburner
Quote from: amincd on Today at 11:54:29 am
He's saying difficulty is too high. If difficulty were lowered, there would be more blocks being created per hour.
I say, we need completely re-normalize current mining (BTC-mass/per unit time) algorithm by two functions - linear increasing one (while less than 90% gold-BTC has been mined) and exponetial decreasing one (when more than 90% gold-BTC will be mined).
He's saying difficulty is too high. If difficulty were lowered, there would be more blocks being created per hour.
I say, we need completely re-normalize current mining (BTC-mass/per unit time) algorithm by two functions - linear increasing one (while less than 90% gold-BTC has been mined) and exponetial decreasing one (when more than 90% gold-BTC will be mined).
That won't change any thing. The dedicated miners will still get the majority of them, and the majority of people who use bitcoins will not want to invest the time it takes to get into mining.
If you don't like Bitcoin, start your own currency.
How many times must I say this?
If you read pedantically,
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9487.msg139923#msg139923
some premium person ask me to explain 'frozen people' concept.
BUT you does close the society. I know WHY.
But you are wrong. The difficulty changes will make mining profitable for only the most efficient miners. If the exchange rate stays the same, the difficulty will increase until mining is only profitable to those who do it the best.
What you want is mining to be profitable to everyone for a very long time! That's insane and impossible to sustain.
Don't you understand, that if mining were allowed to be so easy, and the rate of new coin introduction was always going up, the price of Bitcoin would go down, defeating the whole point you are trying to achieve in the first place!
No one is going to buy something that is super easy to get. So no one is going to want to mine that junk. Damn dude...
Afterburner229, Bitcoin is meant to be an alternative currency, not a means to profit from mining (that just happened to be a pleasant side effect for early adopters). If the "average Joe" won't use it because he can't understand its benefits, it's not up to us to pay him to use it.
I know Bitcoin is meant to be, I just proove WHY bitcoin society will decay too soon.
If they can't mine and get a taste for it, then most will just leave it be. I know I would.
but obviously a lot more have accepted bitcoin, that's why mining is not profitable anymore. You can't just let people mine (cheaply) indefinitely with growth like that, inflation would be astronomical. (that's the way i see it, but i might be dead wrong here) Let me say it one last time: NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU.
TRUE.
but count mumbers: 6 000 000 000 Earth citizen minus 10 000 bitcoin society members ARE LIKE ME, 'average Joe'.
The rest 10 000 bitcoin society members spread world-wide, ARE LIKE YOU.
WHY do you RAGE just because I advice to increase number of miners in the game from 10 000 to 1 000 000?
you CAN normalize mining profit to be VERY small, BUT roughly CONSTANT in time interval FEW years, or half a year, to allow 1 000 000 members to join the bitcoin society.
BUT you does close the society. I know WHY.
If you don't like Bitcoin, start your own currency.
How many times must I say this?
Let me say it one last time: NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU.
TRUE.
but count mumbers: 6 000 000 000 Earth citizen minus 10 000 bitcoin society members ARE LIKE ME, 'average Joe'.
The rest 10 000 bitcoin society members spread world-wide, ARE LIKE YOU.
WHY do you RAGE just because I advice to increase number of miners in the game from 10 000 to 1 000 000?
you CAN normalize mining profit to be VERY small, BUT roughly CONSTANT in time interval FEW years, or half a year, to allow 1 000 000 members to join the bitcoin society.
BUT you does close the society. I know WHY.
Although I don't agree fully with afterburner I can see what he's saying.
Why should anyone invest in bitcoin in the first place? The risk is astronomical. Your investment makes the early adopters rich (not me). You have no stake in it.
I wouldn't throw a dollar into bitcoin at this time, but I have managed to mine about half a block before it became too difficult so I'll keep those and follow the development with interest. New users don't get that chance. They get told to throw money "our" way and hope for the best.
And while there are services and goods that you can buy for bitcoins, it's nowhere near as useful as regular money.
If they can't mine and get a taste for it, then most will just leave it be. I know I would.
Why should anyone invest in bitcoin in the first place? The risk is astronomical. Your investment makes the early adopters rich (not me). You have no stake in it.
I wouldn't throw a dollar into bitcoin at this time, but I have managed to mine about half a block before it became too difficult so I'll keep those and follow the development with interest. New users don't get that chance. They get told to throw money "our" way and hope for the best.
And while there are services and goods that you can buy for bitcoins, it's nowhere near as useful as regular money.
If they can't mine and get a taste for it, then most will just leave it be. I know I would.
Sorry, but why is mining that much different than buying coins? You pay either way, there is no free money.
I described, why does not you read me pedantically? buying coins is too risky, like Russian roulette.
If I am desperado man, I can risk and play on BTC exchange.
But with mining, I have the power gaming computer, I can sell it, if bitcoin mining fails!
Or I may simply switch to use this computer simply as computer!
10 000 people, you do not neither think, nor count numbers, nor read when you ask me to write
Afterburner's argument seems to be that since the minig difficulty has increased, it is no longer profitable and the "average Joe" won't accept Bitcoin because he can't make money off of it.
Afterburner229, Bitcoin is meant to be an alternative currency, not a means to profit from mining (that just happened to be a pleasant side effect for early adopters). If the "average Joe" won't use it because he can't understand its benefits, it's not up to us to pay him to use it.
Afterburner229, Bitcoin is meant to be an alternative currency, not a means to profit from mining (that just happened to be a pleasant side effect for early adopters). If the "average Joe" won't use it because he can't understand its benefits, it's not up to us to pay him to use it.
Sorry, but why is mining that much different than buying coins? You pay either way, there is no free money.
I described, why does not you read me pedantically? buying coins is too risky, like Russian roulette.
If I am desperado man, I can risk and play on BTC exchange.
But with mining, I have the power gaming computer, I can sell it, if bitcoin mining fails!
Or I may simply switch to use this computer simply as computer!
10 000 people, you do not neither think, nor count numbers, nor read when you ask me to write
I'm familiar with how difficulty has increased over time, thanks (I generated my first block on a 4-core CPU over 5 days, when difficulty was something like 8000). I'm looking for a quick summary explaining where this "10,000 frozen" concept comes from: if the price of that knowledge is having to read the entire thread then I'll pass.
In current (too small) bitcoin society, number of miners roughly equal to number of acceptors, the persons who buy & sell for bitcoin & do BTC/$ exchange. It is a *psychological* law for the small society, number of miners ~ number of adopters, because bitcoin's UFO-like nature for 'average Joe'.
NO. This is not true.
This f*cking thread has gone on and on because you can't imagine yourself using bitcoins unless you get free coins from mining, and then you project your own personal failings onto the rest of the world.
Let me say it one last time: NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU.
Sorry, but why is mining that much different than buying coins? You pay either way, there is no free money. I really don't get why average people would prefer mining to buying that badly.
I'm familiar with how difficulty has increased over time, thanks (I generated my first block on a 4-core CPU over 5 days, when difficulty was something like 8000). I'm looking for a quick summary explaining where this "10,000 frozen" concept comes from: if the price of that knowledge is having to read the entire thread then I'll pass.
In current (too small) bitcoin society, number of miners roughly equal to number of acceptors, the persons who buy & sell for bitcoin & do BTC/$ exchange. It is a *psychological* law for the small society, number of miners ~ number of adopters, because bitcoin's UFO-like nature for 'average Joe'.
See, Difficulty was some 240000 FEW days ago, and will be some 440000 FEW days later.
Because bitcoin society is too small, I, being 'average Joe', do not trust in it: not because it is cryptographically insecure, but because I doubt in guarantee to easily buy & sell & exchange for BTC world-wide. Now it is something possible but TOO tricky and risky.
But, the cryptographic idea of bitcoin is very nice, so I being 'average Joe', want to join and risk.
But, because I do not trust in terms of sell-buy, I decide to risk as miner: to buy a computer with ATI 5850x2 GPU to start mining. Or even I have this computer with one ATI 5950 as typical computer-gamer. I want switch it for mining in my free nights.
So, FEW days ago I DECIDED to risk and mine. There are not abstract FEW days - they counted from TODAY, 25 may, 2011! Counter is ticking NOW and HERE.
Then, I wake up FEW days later (because I was walking, dancing, drinking etc) and DISCOVER, if I start to mine FEW days later, I lost HUGH amount of profit. If I start to mine (FEW+1) days later, I lost HUGE*2^1 amount of profit. If I start to mine (FEW+2) days later, I lost HUGE*2^2 amount of profit. etc.
This is ROUGH estimate, of course - but this is sufficient.
I DISCOVER EVEN I DID start mining YESTERDAY I have 99.99% possibility that my computer-miner will NOT be compensated by profit at all!
Important, that difficulty-doubling interval is FEW days now, not FEW years or even FEW months.
So I REJECT this CRAZY idea to mine.
I still can risk to play with BTC/$ on exchange, within time interval of few days. BUT As in casino, or Russian roulette.
But I never start buy or sell or exchange for BTC the real goods and dollars in SERIOUS business, because I DO NOT trust that too small bitcoin society allow me to easily input or output real dollars or real gold.
So I REJECT enter the bitcoin society as acceptor TOO.
I being 'average Joe' DOES REJECT bitcoin currency idea at all.
You, 10 000 miners & adopters stay isolated, but 10000 people spread world-wide can-not make solid economy, due to unable of diversification of goods being sell or bought by BTC, neither guarantie for real dollar/gold to easily input/output from TINY needle's eye of some 10 000 members of bitcoin society.
So, 10 000 CURRENT members of bitcoin society will be isolated, rejected by the rest of world -- 'frozen', and start decay quickly.
I have introduced new difficulty algorith's normalization formula, to allow some 1 000 000 - 10 000 000 people world-wide to join bitcoin society as miners, BEFORE considering this society as economics with easy buy/sell/exchange.
----
Then, some premium members call me THE 'idiot'.
To spare me having to wade through this entire thread (I've been reading it piecemeal since it started, so I've probably missed a lot of it) could someone explain this "10,000 frozen" idea?
I recommend you read pedantically the whole thread. I hope still, I am wrong for a miracle, and bitcoin society will survive.
Don't worry about time spent in reading: just observe how difficulty increases in time @
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
I'll save you the pain.
This guy equates mining = bitcoin in his head. The notion that people might use it without mining is alien to him. About a dozen people have tried to set him right, but we've all failed.
Because he missed the goldrush and is unable to mine profitably, no one will ever use bitcoin ever again, and the 10,000 users that got in early are all that there will ever be.
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