This should bring in some more people...
Topic: ★★DigiByte|极特币★★[DGB]✔ Core v6.16.5.1 - DigiShield, DigiSpeed, Segwit - page 1335. (Read 3058921 times)
June 20, 2014, 10:21:45 AM
I can't wait for this
This should bring in some more people...
This should bring in some more people...
June 20, 2014, 09:47:28 AM
I've been reading up on the multi-algo approach and the problem it is aiming to solve and wanted to see if I understood the problem itself properly and then try and understand how the multi-algo approach would solve it.
If I got it right, the main problem is that multi-pools come in for short periods of time, bring a huge spike of hashpower into the network, then leave after they have driven the diff drastically up to where it is no longer that profitable for them to mine.
The aftermath, once they leave, is twofold - a high diff left with much less hashpower to solve it (DigiShield helps mitigate that to a nice extent) and of course the coins the multi-pool dumps into the market upon leaving, driving the price down.
Another problem added here (and to each his own on its priority opposite the problems stated above) would be the security of the network in terms of 51% when gigantic pools (multi or otherwise) come in to have their cake, eat it too and then have it again (with the potential of double spend and such).
Does this describe the main, if not the entire scope of the problem?
Assuming it does, I am trying to understand how the multi-algo will essentially solve it or at least mitigate in a substantial way.
While I think I understand the reasoning given for it, I am struggling with the fact(?) that multi-pools these days are becoming multi-algo as well where essentially they allow miners to decide which algo to use and divert each algo to the most profitable coin within that algo's space.
Essentially what I see could happen here, is that such a multipool would now be able to direct ALL its algos into the DGB network (let's assume they work with the 5 chosen for DGB), so essentially under their control (as a pool) would be not just one algo but possibly 5 algos, assuming they can get enough hash power. Even if that possibility is remote and they cannot gain an overall 51% (which I think is indeed much less likely), they could still bring a total hashpower overall that would allow them to spike up the individual diffs and most of all, gain a chunk of the coins being mined and dump them into the market as they do now, driving prices down and then leaving for another coin while the diffs have spiked up for everyone else to deal with it, until the next cycle (each on their respective algo/diff within DGB).
I would appreciate some thoughts on my analysis of things. (From anyone, of course, but definitely from the DGB devs)
More hashing alternatives = more miners = less multipool impact.If I got it right, the main problem is that multi-pools come in for short periods of time, bring a huge spike of hashpower into the network, then leave after they have driven the diff drastically up to where it is no longer that profitable for them to mine.
The aftermath, once they leave, is twofold - a high diff left with much less hashpower to solve it (DigiShield helps mitigate that to a nice extent) and of course the coins the multi-pool dumps into the market upon leaving, driving the price down.
Another problem added here (and to each his own on its priority opposite the problems stated above) would be the security of the network in terms of 51% when gigantic pools (multi or otherwise) come in to have their cake, eat it too and then have it again (with the potential of double spend and such).
Does this describe the main, if not the entire scope of the problem?
Assuming it does, I am trying to understand how the multi-algo will essentially solve it or at least mitigate in a substantial way.
While I think I understand the reasoning given for it, I am struggling with the fact(?) that multi-pools these days are becoming multi-algo as well where essentially they allow miners to decide which algo to use and divert each algo to the most profitable coin within that algo's space.
Essentially what I see could happen here, is that such a multipool would now be able to direct ALL its algos into the DGB network (let's assume they work with the 5 chosen for DGB), so essentially under their control (as a pool) would be not just one algo but possibly 5 algos, assuming they can get enough hash power. Even if that possibility is remote and they cannot gain an overall 51% (which I think is indeed much less likely), they could still bring a total hashpower overall that would allow them to spike up the individual diffs and most of all, gain a chunk of the coins being mined and dump them into the market as they do now, driving prices down and then leaving for another coin while the diffs have spiked up for everyone else to deal with it, until the next cycle (each on their respective algo/diff within DGB).
I would appreciate some thoughts on my analysis of things. (From anyone, of course, but definitely from the DGB devs)
Of course, whatever you'll do there's always the possibility for multipools to specialize on you. But with more algo alternatives for miners you can attract more of them to mine your coin constantly. Especially if they don't have to compete with ASICS anymore. This raises the average network hashrate and therefore lowers the multipool influence as their total hasing power is now less, relative to the net hashrate, than before.
June 20, 2014, 09:29:41 AM
I've been reading up on the multi-algo approach and the problem it is aiming to solve and wanted to see if I understood the problem itself properly and then try and understand how the multi-algo approach would solve it.
If I got it right, the main problem is that multi-pools come in for short periods of time, bring a huge spike of hashpower into the network, then leave after they have driven the diff drastically up to where it is no longer that profitable for them to mine.
The aftermath, once they leave, is twofold - a high diff left with much less hashpower to solve it (DigiShield helps mitigate that to a nice extent) and of course the coins the multi-pool dumps into the market upon leaving, driving the price down.
Another problem added here (and to each his own on its priority opposite the problems stated above) would be the security of the network in terms of 51% when gigantic pools (multi or otherwise) come in to have their cake, eat it too and then have it again (with the potential of double spend and such).
Does this describe the main, if not the entire scope of the problem?
Assuming it does, I am trying to understand how the multi-algo will essentially solve it or at least mitigate in a substantial way.
While I think I understand the reasoning given for it, I am struggling with the fact(?) that multi-pools these days are becoming multi-algo as well where essentially they allow miners to decide which algo to use and divert each algo to the most profitable coin within that algo's space.
Essentially what I see could happen here, is that such a multipool would now be able to direct ALL its algos into the DGB network (let's assume they work with the 5 chosen for DGB), so essentially under their control (as a pool) would be not just one algo but possibly 5 algos, assuming they can get enough hash power. Even if that possibility is remote and they cannot gain an overall 51% (which I think is indeed much less likely), they could still bring a total hashpower overall that would allow them to spike up the individual diffs and most of all, gain a chunk of the coins being mined and dump them into the market as they do now, driving prices down and then leaving for another coin while the diffs have spiked up for everyone else to deal with it, until the next cycle (each on their respective algo/diff within DGB).
I would appreciate some thoughts on my analysis of things. (From anyone, of course, but definitely from the DGB devs)
If I got it right, the main problem is that multi-pools come in for short periods of time, bring a huge spike of hashpower into the network, then leave after they have driven the diff drastically up to where it is no longer that profitable for them to mine.
The aftermath, once they leave, is twofold - a high diff left with much less hashpower to solve it (DigiShield helps mitigate that to a nice extent) and of course the coins the multi-pool dumps into the market upon leaving, driving the price down.
Another problem added here (and to each his own on its priority opposite the problems stated above) would be the security of the network in terms of 51% when gigantic pools (multi or otherwise) come in to have their cake, eat it too and then have it again (with the potential of double spend and such).
Does this describe the main, if not the entire scope of the problem?
Assuming it does, I am trying to understand how the multi-algo will essentially solve it or at least mitigate in a substantial way.
While I think I understand the reasoning given for it, I am struggling with the fact(?) that multi-pools these days are becoming multi-algo as well where essentially they allow miners to decide which algo to use and divert each algo to the most profitable coin within that algo's space.
Essentially what I see could happen here, is that such a multipool would now be able to direct ALL its algos into the DGB network (let's assume they work with the 5 chosen for DGB), so essentially under their control (as a pool) would be not just one algo but possibly 5 algos, assuming they can get enough hash power. Even if that possibility is remote and they cannot gain an overall 51% (which I think is indeed much less likely), they could still bring a total hashpower overall that would allow them to spike up the individual diffs and most of all, gain a chunk of the coins being mined and dump them into the market as they do now, driving prices down and then leaving for another coin while the diffs have spiked up for everyone else to deal with it, until the next cycle (each on their respective algo/diff within DGB).
I would appreciate some thoughts on my analysis of things. (From anyone, of course, but definitely from the DGB devs)
June 20, 2014, 09:15:51 AM
hey Ryven, check the reseller area, made you an offer
LOL, What are you doing here??
whywwefight is another reseller and owner of getprypto.com which you should ABSOLUTELY check out.
i am everywhere
lets get DGB on prypto...
June 20, 2014, 06:46:15 AM
We have successfully tested a DigiByte algorithm switch at a specific block & mined blocks on all 5 algorithms!
These are some great news! Every step forward could bring us back us i hope! June 20, 2014, 06:35:24 AM
hey Ryven, check the reseller area, made you an offer
LOL, What are you doing here??
whywwefight is another reseller and owner of getprypto.com which you should ABSOLUTELY check out.
June 20, 2014, 05:32:48 AM
The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
I just finally managed to get my father-in-law to stop thinking that anything involving Bitcoin is slightly shady and therefore worthy of avoidance. It's helped of course that every day there are more and more positive stories in the news around it, rather than the latest arrest, scam, theft of or drug deal etc. So I was able to engage him in a conversation around Crypto's and the Blockchain technology in general. I had him to the point of actually wanting to buy the DGB.... and he asked me how he could do this. And there's where I lost him. It's exactly as Ryven pointed out above... for him to do it on his own (even with my help, and believe me I offered, but he's independent) involves too many steps at the moment. He's in Vancouver, and I did point out that if he didn't want to wire funds to an online exchange to buy BTC first, he could go to one of the 3 BTC ATM's in Vancouver... but even then, it's kind of more complicated as he then has to import that paper wallet onto an exchange and carry on from there. Of course, easy for us... but not so easy for many.
I told him he could actually skip all that if he just wanted to have a few DGB to feel involved, and to worry about the rest later. I told him to download the wallet, let it sync up and I'd send him a few thousand to start him off. I even told him I'd put a message out on this board and that I had no doubt the community might even throw a couple hundred his way to get him into the spirit of things. But, to date, he's just not bothered... but I'm seeing him in a few weeks so maybe I can walk him through it all in person and get him fired up again.
The point? If the above is a TLDR... then the point is this. The easier it is the get them and spend them.... the more "normal" people will get involved.
This is a good point, and one most if not all cryptos have, even bitcoin. Except for those with an Android phone its incredibly difficult to actually spec them on the go (i.e. away from a pc). This is also one reason why Bitcoin has done so well in online shops rather than regular brick & mortar (well, also the confirm time doesn't help).
Rather than make a play for every kind of commerce, perhaps it would be good to focus on one particular kind & then develop the tools to aid integration amongst "in-betweeners" - that is people who aren't necessarily tech-minded but who are interested in such things & keen to have a go (such as tdcooper's Dad).
..just an idea
(and yes I know Apple recently allowed cryptos back into iOS, but I would be worried about them pulling the plug & me loosing all my funds personally. Until they have my trust that it won't happen again at least)
June 20, 2014, 05:15:50 AM
Deep breath...
My thinking is that if the dev team has agreements with vendors in LA to take DGB, we need to be able to make sure people can actually buy DGB to use, specifically in LA. It's a bit of the chicken-and-egg paradox; vendors want customers with coins before they accept, customers want vendors who take coins before they buy. The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
SKIPPED
My thinking is that if the dev team has agreements with vendors in LA to take DGB, we need to be able to make sure people can actually buy DGB to use, specifically in LA. It's a bit of the chicken-and-egg paradox; vendors want customers with coins before they accept, customers want vendors who take coins before they buy. The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
SKIPPED
Why not apply to http://coinkite.com
They charge like 800 USD per device to use ( for the merchant ), I dont forsee that concept going anywhere soon.
Let merchants decide. They can accept a many coins with this device, so it's probably acceptable.
June 20, 2014, 04:19:29 AM
Deep breath...
My thinking is that if the dev team has agreements with vendors in LA to take DGB, we need to be able to make sure people can actually buy DGB to use, specifically in LA. It's a bit of the chicken-and-egg paradox; vendors want customers with coins before they accept, customers want vendors who take coins before they buy. The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
I was in Cleveland a few weeks back and visited their Bitcoin Avenue just to see what was up. Walked into one of the stores and asked about business. No Bitcoins. They were ready to take Bitcoin, but no one was spending. I had some doge on me and wanted to convert to BTC to use in the store but their Wi-fi sucked and I couldn't get to Mintpal to trade so I ended up using my bank card having specifically gone there to spend crypto. Some of that is the store's problem, obviously and I was also trying to talk them into doge at the same time so had I converted to BTC prior it wouldn't have been as big of a deal, but you can still see where these bottlenecks show up regardless.
A lot of this changes if your coin is available at Target or whatever - even just a comics store. I see my wife's hairdresser is offering $5 off if you pay in DigiByte (don't laugh - there's a salon here in Chapel Hill that does Bitcoin discounts). Awesome. Pick up my groceries, grab a 100 DGB card (optimism!) and off I go; I'll redeem it when I get there. Heck, maybe I won't even do that. Maybe the cost of her highlights plus tip is close enough to 100 DGB that I just hand the stylist the card unredeemed. Now it's cash and cash is still king when it comes to anonymity (at least for now anyway). My wife - who knows less about computers than I do (which isn't all that much, really) is NEVER going to touch your coin if she has to go through anything more than a checkout lane to get it.
You can make the case that we don't want mass acceptance, we're not ready for it yet, my wife's isn't your target audience, etc. I don't necessarily disagree but it doesn't change the fact that the barrier to entry is still nuts. You have to really WANT to use crypto and if no one guides you into the crypto world, the walls around the city might be enough to suggest you walk away. A scratchcard is friendly. You feel like you won something and the redemption process isn't a chore. It's exciting.
That's all in the future (though it doesn't hurt to keep the long-term in mind). How do these cards help DGB today? One, they can help support value. A straight fiat to DGB conversion shakes us loose from BTC and helps set a working value floor for the coin. Fiat to DGB electronically is another low-hanging fruit that will help as well. Two, they can be distributed in person which is super important if you're working in a central geographical area. Jared can hand a potential partner a business card and 1000 DGB in the same move, no wallets or whatever required. Corollary point, it can be used to track interest. I can tell when a card I sell or give away is redeemed. If I know which card went to which person, I can gauge interest. Did the card get redeemed in an hour? In a day? In three days? Is it still sitting there? Three, it looks good in the crypto community. Important coins have Prypto lines - Bitcoin, Litecoin, (Dogecoin), Worldcoin. It's not just an exchange that will accept whoever. It signals to the rest of the community you mean business. You're going to run with the big dogs. Also, if Jared doesn't want all thousand cards maybe some of the rest of us could do something with them. We're always asking ourselves "who do we know? How can we help?" These cards help us all represent DGB in meatspace. They look good. They're tangible. They're professional.
So thats my spiel. Turnaround time for the first batch is I think three weeks but then shorter after that.
My thinking is that if the dev team has agreements with vendors in LA to take DGB, we need to be able to make sure people can actually buy DGB to use, specifically in LA. It's a bit of the chicken-and-egg paradox; vendors want customers with coins before they accept, customers want vendors who take coins before they buy. The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
I was in Cleveland a few weeks back and visited their Bitcoin Avenue just to see what was up. Walked into one of the stores and asked about business. No Bitcoins. They were ready to take Bitcoin, but no one was spending. I had some doge on me and wanted to convert to BTC to use in the store but their Wi-fi sucked and I couldn't get to Mintpal to trade so I ended up using my bank card having specifically gone there to spend crypto. Some of that is the store's problem, obviously and I was also trying to talk them into doge at the same time so had I converted to BTC prior it wouldn't have been as big of a deal, but you can still see where these bottlenecks show up regardless.
A lot of this changes if your coin is available at Target or whatever - even just a comics store. I see my wife's hairdresser is offering $5 off if you pay in DigiByte (don't laugh - there's a salon here in Chapel Hill that does Bitcoin discounts). Awesome. Pick up my groceries, grab a 100 DGB card (optimism!) and off I go; I'll redeem it when I get there. Heck, maybe I won't even do that. Maybe the cost of her highlights plus tip is close enough to 100 DGB that I just hand the stylist the card unredeemed. Now it's cash and cash is still king when it comes to anonymity (at least for now anyway). My wife - who knows less about computers than I do (which isn't all that much, really) is NEVER going to touch your coin if she has to go through anything more than a checkout lane to get it.
You can make the case that we don't want mass acceptance, we're not ready for it yet, my wife's isn't your target audience, etc. I don't necessarily disagree but it doesn't change the fact that the barrier to entry is still nuts. You have to really WANT to use crypto and if no one guides you into the crypto world, the walls around the city might be enough to suggest you walk away. A scratchcard is friendly. You feel like you won something and the redemption process isn't a chore. It's exciting.
That's all in the future (though it doesn't hurt to keep the long-term in mind). How do these cards help DGB today? One, they can help support value. A straight fiat to DGB conversion shakes us loose from BTC and helps set a working value floor for the coin. Fiat to DGB electronically is another low-hanging fruit that will help as well. Two, they can be distributed in person which is super important if you're working in a central geographical area. Jared can hand a potential partner a business card and 1000 DGB in the same move, no wallets or whatever required. Corollary point, it can be used to track interest. I can tell when a card I sell or give away is redeemed. If I know which card went to which person, I can gauge interest. Did the card get redeemed in an hour? In a day? In three days? Is it still sitting there? Three, it looks good in the crypto community. Important coins have Prypto lines - Bitcoin, Litecoin, (Dogecoin), Worldcoin. It's not just an exchange that will accept whoever. It signals to the rest of the community you mean business. You're going to run with the big dogs. Also, if Jared doesn't want all thousand cards maybe some of the rest of us could do something with them. We're always asking ourselves "who do we know? How can we help?" These cards help us all represent DGB in meatspace. They look good. They're tangible. They're professional.
So thats my spiel. Turnaround time for the first batch is I think three weeks but then shorter after that.
hey Ryven, check the reseller area, made you an offer
June 20, 2014, 03:43:31 AM
Here's one more P2Pool node that I can see is still live, albeit without much hash going through it... but overall P2Pool for DGB is in a dire state at the moment. I've been a staunch supporter of it for months, but recently I finally had to admit defeat and move over to a traditional pool.... simply not enough hashrate to find blocks often enough.
http://p2phash.com:9022/static/
Folks, just a quick shout out in support of P2Pool... I'm once again on it, having left in frustration a few weeks back (see previous post above) and would really encourage anyone else out there looking for a decent place to park some Hashrate. I am the proud new owner of a couple of Zeusminer Hurricane X3's, and have decided to carry on mining DGB rather than chase multipool profits etc at the moment. I've been pointing them at P2Pool for the last 24 hours (ish) and once again this pool is discovering blocks in a reasonably timely manner. Definitely a more fruitful time to jump back into P2Pool if you were considering it in the past but didn't want to due to lack of Hashrate.... I'm on http://p2phash.com:9022/static/, but pick your closest node and go for it.... everyone gets a nice piece of the pie! I'm like 3/4 of this pool at the moment though... so come on, get in here with me and let's grab some blocks!!!
June 20, 2014, 03:15:49 AM
We have successfully tested a DigiByte algorithm switch at a specific block & mined blocks on all 5 algorithms!
Very cool! When can we expect the wallet with the fork? June 20, 2014, 03:08:39 AM
We have successfully tested a DigiByte algorithm switch at a specific block & mined blocks on all 5 algorithms!
Great job guys!!
:DCant wait to mine again
June 20, 2014, 02:55:44 AM
June 20, 2014, 01:51:41 AM
We have successfully tested a DigiByte algorithm switch at a specific block & mined blocks on all 5 algorithms!
Awesome! Forward progression!
June 20, 2014, 01:47:02 AM
We have successfully tested a DigiByte algorithm switch at a specific block & mined blocks on all 5 algorithms!
June 20, 2014, 01:46:20 AM
The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
I just finally managed to get my father-in-law to stop thinking that anything involving Bitcoin is slightly shady and therefore worthy of avoidance. It's helped of course that every day there are more and more positive stories in the news around it, rather than the latest arrest, scam, theft of or drug deal etc. So I was able to engage him in a conversation around Crypto's and the Blockchain technology in general. I had him to the point of actually wanting to buy the DGB.... and he asked me how he could do this. And there's where I lost him. It's exactly as Ryven pointed out above... for him to do it on his own (even with my help, and believe me I offered, but he's independent) involves too many steps at the moment. He's in Vancouver, and I did point out that if he didn't want to wire funds to an online exchange to buy BTC first, he could go to one of the 3 BTC ATM's in Vancouver... but even then, it's kind of more complicated as he then has to import that paper wallet onto an exchange and carry on from there. Of course, easy for us... but not so easy for many.
I told him he could actually skip all that if he just wanted to have a few DGB to feel involved, and to worry about the rest later. I told him to download the wallet, let it sync up and I'd send him a few thousand to start him off. I even told him I'd put a message out on this board and that I had no doubt the community might even throw a couple hundred his way to get him into the spirit of things. But, to date, he's just not bothered... but I'm seeing him in a few weeks so maybe I can walk him through it all in person and get him fired up again.
The point? If the above is a TLDR... then the point is this. The easier it is the get them and spend them.... the more "normal" people will get involved.
June 20, 2014, 01:39:15 AM
Deep breath...
My thinking is that if the dev team has agreements with vendors in LA to take DGB, we need to be able to make sure people can actually buy DGB to use, specifically in LA. It's a bit of the chicken-and-egg paradox; vendors want customers with coins before they accept, customers want vendors who take coins before they buy. The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
SKIPPED
My thinking is that if the dev team has agreements with vendors in LA to take DGB, we need to be able to make sure people can actually buy DGB to use, specifically in LA. It's a bit of the chicken-and-egg paradox; vendors want customers with coins before they accept, customers want vendors who take coins before they buy. The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
SKIPPED
Why not apply to http://coinkite.com
They charge like 800 USD per device to use ( for the merchant ), I dont forsee that concept going anywhere soon.
June 20, 2014, 12:47:49 AM
Deep breath...
My thinking is that if the dev team has agreements with vendors in LA to take DGB, we need to be able to make sure people can actually buy DGB to use, specifically in LA. It's a bit of the chicken-and-egg paradox; vendors want customers with coins before they accept, customers want vendors who take coins before they buy. The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
SKIPPED
My thinking is that if the dev team has agreements with vendors in LA to take DGB, we need to be able to make sure people can actually buy DGB to use, specifically in LA. It's a bit of the chicken-and-egg paradox; vendors want customers with coins before they accept, customers want vendors who take coins before they buy. The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
SKIPPED
Why not apply to http://coinkite.com
June 19, 2014, 03:39:51 PM
Deep breath...
My thinking is that if the dev team has agreements with vendors in LA to take DGB, we need to be able to make sure people can actually buy DGB to use, specifically in LA. It's a bit of the chicken-and-egg paradox; vendors want customers with coins before they accept, customers want vendors who take coins before they buy. The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
I was in Cleveland a few weeks back and visited their Bitcoin Avenue just to see what was up. Walked into one of the stores and asked about business. No Bitcoins. They were ready to take Bitcoin, but no one was spending. I had some doge on me and wanted to convert to BTC to use in the store but their Wi-fi sucked and I couldn't get to Mintpal to trade so I ended up using my bank card having specifically gone there to spend crypto. Some of that is the store's problem, obviously and I was also trying to talk them into doge at the same time so had I converted to BTC prior it wouldn't have been as big of a deal, but you can still see where these bottlenecks show up regardless.
A lot of this changes if your coin is available at Target or whatever - even just a comics store. I see my wife's hairdresser is offering $5 off if you pay in DigiByte (don't laugh - there's a salon here in Chapel Hill that does Bitcoin discounts). Awesome. Pick up my groceries, grab a 100 DGB card (optimism!) and off I go; I'll redeem it when I get there. Heck, maybe I won't even do that. Maybe the cost of her highlights plus tip is close enough to 100 DGB that I just hand the stylist the card unredeemed. Now it's cash and cash is still king when it comes to anonymity (at least for now anyway). My wife - who knows less about computers than I do (which isn't all that much, really) is NEVER going to touch your coin if she has to go through anything more than a checkout lane to get it.
You can make the case that we don't want mass acceptance, we're not ready for it yet, my wife's isn't your target audience, etc. I don't necessarily disagree but it doesn't change the fact that the barrier to entry is still nuts. You have to really WANT to use crypto and if no one guides you into the crypto world, the walls around the city might be enough to suggest you walk away. A scratchcard is friendly. You feel like you won something and the redemption process isn't a chore. It's exciting.
That's all in the future (though it doesn't hurt to keep the long-term in mind). How do these cards help DGB today? One, they can help support value. A straight fiat to DGB conversion shakes us loose from BTC and helps set a working value floor for the coin. Fiat to DGB electronically is another low-hanging fruit that will help as well. Two, they can be distributed in person which is super important if you're working in a central geographical area. Jared can hand a potential partner a business card and 1000 DGB in the same move, no wallets or whatever required. Corollary point, it can be used to track interest. I can tell when a card I sell or give away is redeemed. If I know which card went to which person, I can gauge interest. Did the card get redeemed in an hour? In a day? In three days? Is it still sitting there? Three, it looks good in the crypto community. Important coins have Prypto lines - Bitcoin, Litecoin, (Dogecoin), Worldcoin. It's not just an exchange that will accept whoever. It signals to the rest of the community you mean business. You're going to run with the big dogs. Also, if Jared doesn't want all thousand cards maybe some of the rest of us could do something with them. We're always asking ourselves "who do we know? How can we help?" These cards help us all represent DGB in meatspace. They look good. They're tangible. They're professional.
So thats my spiel. Turnaround time for the first batch is I think three weeks but then shorter after that.
My thinking is that if the dev team has agreements with vendors in LA to take DGB, we need to be able to make sure people can actually buy DGB to use, specifically in LA. It's a bit of the chicken-and-egg paradox; vendors want customers with coins before they accept, customers want vendors who take coins before they buy. The process of buying DGB (or really most any crypto) is entirely too convoluted and weird for mainstream use. In order to get BTC, I probably have to deposit money in someone else's bank account or send a wire transfer or something and why the heck would I do that if PayPal or my Mastercard works just as well? Not to mention that I now have to transfer BTC to an exchange, trade it for DGB and then get it back. That will take me hours if not the better part of a day.
I was in Cleveland a few weeks back and visited their Bitcoin Avenue just to see what was up. Walked into one of the stores and asked about business. No Bitcoins. They were ready to take Bitcoin, but no one was spending. I had some doge on me and wanted to convert to BTC to use in the store but their Wi-fi sucked and I couldn't get to Mintpal to trade so I ended up using my bank card having specifically gone there to spend crypto. Some of that is the store's problem, obviously and I was also trying to talk them into doge at the same time so had I converted to BTC prior it wouldn't have been as big of a deal, but you can still see where these bottlenecks show up regardless.
A lot of this changes if your coin is available at Target or whatever - even just a comics store. I see my wife's hairdresser is offering $5 off if you pay in DigiByte (don't laugh - there's a salon here in Chapel Hill that does Bitcoin discounts). Awesome. Pick up my groceries, grab a 100 DGB card (optimism!) and off I go; I'll redeem it when I get there. Heck, maybe I won't even do that. Maybe the cost of her highlights plus tip is close enough to 100 DGB that I just hand the stylist the card unredeemed. Now it's cash and cash is still king when it comes to anonymity (at least for now anyway). My wife - who knows less about computers than I do (which isn't all that much, really) is NEVER going to touch your coin if she has to go through anything more than a checkout lane to get it.
You can make the case that we don't want mass acceptance, we're not ready for it yet, my wife's isn't your target audience, etc. I don't necessarily disagree but it doesn't change the fact that the barrier to entry is still nuts. You have to really WANT to use crypto and if no one guides you into the crypto world, the walls around the city might be enough to suggest you walk away. A scratchcard is friendly. You feel like you won something and the redemption process isn't a chore. It's exciting.
That's all in the future (though it doesn't hurt to keep the long-term in mind). How do these cards help DGB today? One, they can help support value. A straight fiat to DGB conversion shakes us loose from BTC and helps set a working value floor for the coin. Fiat to DGB electronically is another low-hanging fruit that will help as well. Two, they can be distributed in person which is super important if you're working in a central geographical area. Jared can hand a potential partner a business card and 1000 DGB in the same move, no wallets or whatever required. Corollary point, it can be used to track interest. I can tell when a card I sell or give away is redeemed. If I know which card went to which person, I can gauge interest. Did the card get redeemed in an hour? In a day? In three days? Is it still sitting there? Three, it looks good in the crypto community. Important coins have Prypto lines - Bitcoin, Litecoin, (Dogecoin), Worldcoin. It's not just an exchange that will accept whoever. It signals to the rest of the community you mean business. You're going to run with the big dogs. Also, if Jared doesn't want all thousand cards maybe some of the rest of us could do something with them. We're always asking ourselves "who do we know? How can we help?" These cards help us all represent DGB in meatspace. They look good. They're tangible. They're professional.
So thats my spiel. Turnaround time for the first batch is I think three weeks but then shorter after that.
June 19, 2014, 02:37:06 PM
What's the turnaround time to create? What value do you see this serve for the current community? Is there other low hanging fruit that would give a bigger boost? Not suggesting it's a bad idea. Just want to know your thinking.
YC
I checked with Prypto how to answer this question and I will give you a direct quote.
"We guarantee the coins that are associated to the cards, as in if something was to happen all validated cards will be honoured! We don't discuss our security for obvious reasons, as you attract abuse."
To that I'll add that each card has a validation code that can be checked by anyone who can see the card to determine whether the coin is still associated or not, so you can know the coin is there before you buy it. The withdraws are all automated so as long as the API is functioning, coins will be redeemed. I hope that answers your question.
edit: I should probably explain the validation bit too, shouldn't I? OK. All cards are physically shipped in an inactive or invalid state. If someone were to abscond with the cards between when Prypto sends them out and when I get them, it does no good. The cards will refuse to be redeemed. I as the reseller have to go in and activate each card I receive so that it will be redeemable. I will activate cards I sell to a retail facility after the sale since I don't have the ability to watch each transaction. Were I to sell all the cards personally, I would leave them all inactive until after the sale was made.
YC
Ryven,
What is the security of the platform providing the "note"? What if they go down under? Are the DGB lost?
YC
What is the security of the platform providing the "note"? What if they go down under? Are the DGB lost?
YC
I checked with Prypto how to answer this question and I will give you a direct quote.
"We guarantee the coins that are associated to the cards, as in if something was to happen all validated cards will be honoured! We don't discuss our security for obvious reasons, as you attract abuse."
To that I'll add that each card has a validation code that can be checked by anyone who can see the card to determine whether the coin is still associated or not, so you can know the coin is there before you buy it. The withdraws are all automated so as long as the API is functioning, coins will be redeemed. I hope that answers your question.
edit: I should probably explain the validation bit too, shouldn't I? OK. All cards are physically shipped in an inactive or invalid state. If someone were to abscond with the cards between when Prypto sends them out and when I get them, it does no good. The cards will refuse to be redeemed. I as the reseller have to go in and activate each card I receive so that it will be redeemable. I will activate cards I sell to a retail facility after the sale since I don't have the ability to watch each transaction. Were I to sell all the cards personally, I would leave them all inactive until after the sale was made.
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