Topic: ★★DigiByte|极特币★★[DGB]✔ Core v6.16.5.1 - DigiShield, DigiSpeed, Segwit - page 908. (Read 3058816 times)

Hi Kayahoga.  Just FYI ... I cannot answer your question but I don't want you to feel like it's being ignored.  There are people in here who are well informed about Digihash, I'm just not one of them.  So ... I'm sure you'll get a response.

That's a really interesting and good idea ... i like it in lots of ways ... when you say tipping ... do you mean from the standard 3% fee that goes to supporting DGB development?  ONe of the main reasons I like mining in the official pool is because the fees go to DGB development.  Maybe something with transaction fees ... or, even, something like putting in place a  small percentage fee (.5%) that multipools have to charge, and then redistributing those funds to miners in the official pool.

Let's see what kind of response we get from the rest of the community on this, I'd love to see some new faces, if there are any looking in, as well as here from any of the regulars.

So I downloaded and installed DigiHash + the SDK.  Whenever I try any of the algos I keep getting the same error messages. 

I get.

DigiHash Version 1.0.0.26149
Retrieving data from server..........done
Initialize....
Reading Preference.dat..........done
Saving preference..........done
Getting CPU info..........done
Getting GPU info..........done
Analyzing hardware from server..........done
Miner: sgminer, Version: 5.1.0
Saving preference..........done
Starting Mining

Arguments:
[15:35:36] Default Devices = all
[15:35:36] set_devices(all)

Redirection is not supported.
Stop..........done


Has anyone seen this problem?  Are there error logs I can post somewhere?

And that on a saturday night with a nice beer and some poker,I am a genius
So how can we start this? Any ideas anyone?

For someone that doesn't mine themselves, that's a brilliant idea to drum up a bit of support. 

So we need to attract more Dedicated miners right?
What about start tipping the dedicated miners on the digihash pool on a 2 weeks basis? Just give them some extra and 1 time a month a big jackpot tip on block X.
I think i have some spare Digibyte for dedicated miners.

 ?

Hi 24.  Of course ... don't take it wrong.  I wasn't suggesting that image in a negative way.  I was suggesting that those of us who are informed about DGB (I'd like to imagine myself in the category) are able to profit (buy more DGB) during these periods of depressed prices.

I strongly oppose manipulating the price of DGB in the market.  In my trading, I always work to place trades that will either have no impact on price, or that will stabilize prices.  Cryptsy has a different definition of market making than what it really is (Cryptsy defines it simply as anyone who places a buy or sell limit order at a price that is not currently in the book ... so if the current ask is 65 and the current bid is 63 ... and you place an order at 64 ... you've made a new market) ... Real market makers (I'm not in that category, at least not really) provide liquidity to exchanges by placing and filling multiple open orders on both sides of the price.  They're required by the exchange to provide that liquidity by filling orders.  In stock markets they're mostly brokers and specialized companies.  They mostly profit by using the difference in the spread.  Some high frequency trading practices lead to market manipulation in these circumstances (especially order stuffing).  But, these practices are not common (or even really possible) in the rudimentary exchanges like Cryptsy.

Where I see the most efforts for manipulation in DGB is through bear raids and bashing ... usually simutaneously.  So someone comes in here and posts about problems they're having and how the price is too high ... and then places some large sell orders ...  those orders push the price down and people who don't know what's going on check these forums and see some negative comments ... and it pushes the price a bit further ... and then the liquidity traders momentum push it down ... the same people then use the proceeds from the sell orders to re-buy 10 points or so below where they placed the sell orders.  There was something similar over the past 7 days ... not in the extreme ... but somebody placed some big sell orders about 6 BTC worth right around 60 and then rebought the same amount at around 50 ... at least that was my analysis of the situation.

It all drives me crazy.  But, again ... I was not - in any way - suggesting you encourage it.  We've corresponded off list ... I have a high regard and deeply respect your work in this community ... and like you, I strongly oppose manipulating the price.  DGB is a great coin and this is great community.  It's a privilege to be a part of it.

And please please people think about giving up that 3% for development because $250000 does not last for ever, ask bitcoin.
We really want to keep the DigiByte development team healthy! 

98TH/s right now and only a third of it belongs to the real DigiByte community!

We know 24, your arrow is straight!  The miners we are talking about are the reason DGB is not profitable and I am suggesting this is quite deliberate and that we need to attract more distributed sha miners. It's a shame but the Black Arrow X1 is the perfect miner for this kind of job and it is in line with their original concept of it. It's a shame they made such a hash of their business!

"The animated shark sucking up the floating DGB for instance."

Hey thats me!   I just want to say i dont market make / manipulate the price of Digibyte and i know that some community members can confirm that.
I just buy when i have some free BTC by buying and trading other coins,And yeah i just like to post some funny pics some times haha.

Just to be shure,I like your story and i really need to say i like the way you think about Digibyte.  

It's slightly more sinister because it is not profitable to mine when these traders throw such much power at the DGB network, so the incentive must be another reason.

This is exactly what the last few paragraphs of my previous post were about.  You're calling them profiteers.  I'm describing them as uninformed liquidity traders.  Either way, they create asymmetries in the exchange.

First, just to be clear.  I love mining DGB.  It's all I mine.  And, my support of DGB extends beyond mining.  I don't really hold any other altcoins anymore.  I keep a small amount of BTC for trading, but mostly I just hold, trade, and mine, DGB.

Yes.  For me scrypt is profitable mining.  At least in theory.  Because I don't sell any of the coins I mine, I suppose technically I'm not making a profit.  However, the value of the coins I mine is greater than the cost to run my equipment.

You suggest that profitability is related to the algorithm.  That's only half true.  Profitability is related to external factors (cost of electricity), mining decisions, and use of the equipment ... and profitability is related to the efficiency of the equipment as much, or more, as it is related to difficulty, or algorithm.  If I were mining DGB scrypt with a GPU it wouldn't be anywhere near profitable.  Even the old gridseed asics (the cupcake ones), and the first iteration of the gridseed blade - both asics - are currently not profitable.  But, that's all fine ... it's not a problem.  We could say similar things about specific SHA asics ... Actually, I think all this is really good.  It's one of the strengths of DGB. The multi-algo mining gives people a chance to engage with the coin regardless of their approach to mining.  

Although I've never mined BTC directly, I watched sadly as the BTC mining world consolidated into giant corporate mines, and as hardware manufacturers fleeced customers only to abandon selling to consumers to set up giant mines and rent hashpower at a premium (there are a few exceptions ... Bitmain has remained a strong consumer level manufacturer ... the jury is still out on Spoondoolies).  Limited corporate control of the BTC network is a really bad situation.  It's a situation that few strong BTC proponents actually acknowledge or discuss openly.  In effect, there is less diversity and more corporate control over the processing of BTC than there is for fiat currency or creditcards.

DGB doesn't have the same problem with the network.  And, I think DGB has done a good job of learning from the mistakes that BTC made.  If DGB somehow, magically, gained universal adoption overnight, I'm sure we would see huge corporate level investments into mining and other VC development.  Still, because of the multi-algo approach, even these investments wouldn't shut the door on a distributed DGB network.  This is a huge strength of DGB - it's something I support.  And, even though I run an asic scypt rig - I'm not upset that a person doing CPU mining has a fair shake at supporting DGB.  I'm not upset at all ... it's great.  

There's that great 30 minute video (posted on youtube around this time last year) of Jared introducing DGB.  In the Q and A session, he explains the asymmetric approach they took developing digishield.  The difficulty rises in proportion to increase hashpower in the network.  But, difficulty decreases asymmetrically to the way it rises. My earlier point about "liquidity traders" and asymmetric effects on the exchange value is related to the point you made about variation in mining decisions based on exchange value.  A large portion of miners are liquidity traders.  But the majority of people who just trade (and not mine) are NOT liquidity traders.  Liquidity traders NEED to sell to cover costs.  They might hold excess coins (we'll call that profit), or they might sell all their mining proceeds for cash. Still, they MUST sell some or all of their mining proceeds to pay for costs.  In an exchange, we have buyers creating the demand and sellers creating the supply - the split between them is the current trade value.  This situation leads to asymmetries in trader knowledge (informed/uninformed) and asymmetries in the effects traders have on the market price.

Getting into the details of the market microstructure and trading strategies starts to get really complicated really fast (and involves sequential game theory) - so let's try to keep it simple.  DGB is undervalued at the moment (my guess at a current fair market estimate is 75 plus or minus 10%).  So let's start with the the past couple of weeks.  During times when the value is depressed - as it has been the past couple of weeks - liquidity traders need to sell more to cover costs.  This increase in supply creates greater downward pressure on the price.  During times when the value is increasing, they need to sell less, which restricts the supply and creates support for the upward price trend.  The asymmetry extends to the impact of informed traders as well.  This all changes the probabilities of if I'm trading with an informed trader or an uninformed trader.  The probability that upcoming orders will increase the supply or demand, etc..

Think about some of the posts in this thread over the past week.  The animated shark sucking up the floating DGB for instance.  During times of depressed value, informed traders are able to profit off the "liquidity traders."  When asymmetry in trading increase it's easier to exploit good news than bad; and the situation leads to the possibility of temporarily manipulating the price because of price elasticity - the bid price moves less in response to a sale than the ask price does in response to a purchase.  There's not much of a reason for me to worry about the deflated value.  It's a temporary thing (at least I believe it is because I believe in DGB).  So, I can buy more DGB at relatively low values.  If I'm strategic about my purchases, I can spread them out in small orders so that I don't influence the supply and don't increase the price.  I purchases about 1 BTC worth of DGB over the past 7 days.  I did it over the course of 8 different orders ranging from 50 to 46 and my weighted average purchase price is 472.  I'm interested in holding, so this is mostly just me working to get a good deal.  However, in an ideal world, I would like to see DGB move toward a more stable price.  In order to reinforce price stability, we would need to address the imbalance (asymmetry) in traders.  Some of us with large balances of DGB (like greater than 15 million DGB) could provide some price stability - but that's not going to happen and it's not a good idea because it involves collusion and manipulation.  

The truth is that I'm happy to continue this conversation and I think it's an issue we should be talking about ... but I don't have a good solution to the problem.  We will all trade and buy and sell as we see fit (and as we need).  More than anything I was just making an observation.

Where do you get your 86, 200th.s stats??
Show me proof, I don't believe that.
-DigiHash has ~11TH.s
-TBF has ~5TH.s
-iSpace has ~6TH.s

Those are the top pools as far as I know, far ways from your 200, 86 and 30TH.s figures.
Most I ever seen was 25TH.s among the top three pools and at that time, TBF was #1 by a long shot.
Fluctuations in DGB are nowhere as close to Bitcoins, there's also 1,000x power difference.
A few big miners likely power more than 50% of the network and are mining in pools.
I could put the same amoutn of power as the entire DigiHash pools, you saying a few big miners have no effect??
Take out a few big SHA miners and you notice the results today; it's tank once the DigiSpeed fork was announced.
Only recently has DigiHash been the top pool, not sure why, it's the highest fee pool...
I'm just not willing to part with that much coin.
High spikes beyond 30TH.s in DGB are a result of iSpace doing profit-only mining, when it is the most profitable coin to mine as per CoinWarz.  They're not real miners, just profiteers.
Those aren't DigiByte miners, just out for a quick buck and help drive the prices down because most who are on multipools have auto-cash out/auto sell enabled on Cryptsy. Kick --> Crotch.

The total sha mining of DGB at this precise moment is around 86TH/s, it was 30TH a moment ago. It will fluctuate perhaps sometimes reaching 200TH/s, as high as I've witnessed, for short periods. It appears to do this as if one entity is joining and leaving the pool. The purpose or reason for it is currently undetermined. We need the total DigiByte sha network to be much larger than it currently is to mitigate the risk of this possibly having a negative impact on DGB.

Bitcoin Network speed 354PH/s (354000TH/s)

Peercoin is around 1.5PH/s

most sha 'Alt' coins are not much bigger than we are and would easily fall foul to manipulation I've implied.
Some other coins, namecoin being one are merge mined with bitcoin to give them protection.

Mining pools are mining the most DGBs, not individuals.

Go to this webpage to see who has found the majority of the past 500 blocks: https://www.miners-pool.eu/#!/mining-breakdown/DGB

I did couple minutes of research on the individual addresses and found a couple addresses that matched up with pools.

www.theblocksfactory.com                     skein           83   17%
digihash.co                                                groestl   77   15%
DNo5wca2ekD3tqLpfHDvz5bMffhw4ncFZN          sha256d   39   8% (Hamsterpool)
DGdSTXMwJDdrGi6ixj7USHCVZ3CpK1pJ4w      scrypt           37   7% (unknown)
DS6ry5v7xeuBSRsxEubKCgPSWAozkcqaXt       scrypt           30   6% (multipool.us)
www.theblocksfactory.com                           qubit           20   4%

So, out of the top 57% of total DGB hash, 50% is pools, not individuals. Unless your statements were about individual miners mining in pools, I don't see how there are individual miners skewing the results of each algorithm...

A quick look at the list shows that the largest "individual" share of hashrate for each algorithm is a pool, not an individual. (Except maybe scrypt, we need a better list of pools on the main post so that addresses can be researched).

(sorry for the formatting, hard to get stuff to line up)

Well, nothing is impossible. Perhaps it is a pool like the one you have described that is attacking DigiByte or all the other Alt's t.

Hmm oke, Well i really think that when Digibytes hits the mainstream channels (and a higher price) miners all over the world will jump on Digibyte and then insta sells this on the market. So to compensate this a multipool like that could help the sell presure. Maybe a multipool with some merged mining on dgb?  Lol just thinking out of my head and maybe im just talking bs now.