Digital goods section is a mess | Bitcointalksearch.org

petahasher

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Quote from: jademaxsuy on May 16, 2019, 09:48:16 AM

It will be a hard time for the admin to change that section. But it could be done somehow.

I suggest that users should join KYC in certain sections that has a lot of reported problems. Segregate some sections system in that localty and please apply KYC so we can trace track the transactions and everything that happen using tue block chain technology.

That will never happen, did you not see this year's April Fool's joke? KYC is not the answer, and even if KYC was implemented, what would happen with the ID's of people who still scam/sell illegal things?

jademaxsuy

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It will be a hard time for the admin to change that section. But it could be done somehow.

I suggest that users should join KYC in certain sections that has a lot of reported problems. Segregate some sections system in that localty and please apply KYC so we can trace track the transactions and everything that happen using tue block chain technology.

Bitconnect19055

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Exactly

I think the mod should reorganize all of this.

erikalui

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I don't want the self-moderated feature to be removed as because of this feature, I could keep my thread clean else when I first tried to sell in that section, people started harassing me asking me to sell 60-70% below the market rate and then telling me I am wasting my time and trolling then. I am glad this feature helped me to keep the thread on-topic and I managed to sell my gift cards then. Same goes for Currency Exchange section. People sometimes start advertising their own product in our threads.

TECSHARE

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First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: petahasher on May 03, 2019, 09:28:14 AM

Almost every website has restrictions on gift card sales. It is fraud central. Why then is not a thing done to prevent scams and fraud?

More moderators isn't necessarily a complete fix

Once again you are taking on the view point of "I don't trade in gift cards, so fuck anyone who does because banning it makes more room". Everything would be so simple if everyone simply just did everything you like and nothing you don't like right? I agree many sections of the forum are a mess, but just picking things to ban one by one is not a solution.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: petahasher on May 03, 2019, 09:28:14 AM

Almost every website has restrictions on gift card sales. It is fraud central. Why then is not a thing done to prevent scams and fraud?

There are a lot of people transparently selling gift cards fraudulently one way or another, be it the gift cards are non-existent, or the gift cards are a means to launder money, or some other fraud. I assume there are others selling gift cards fraudulently that is not transparent. Some portion of gift card sellers are doing so legitimately because they won the gift card from some contest, received it as part of a loyalty program, received it as a gift, received it via some promotion, received it as compensation for a poor customer experience, or purchased it from someone who received a gift card this way.

It is best to let individuals do their own research to determine who is selling fraudulent gift cards, and who is selling legitimately obtained gift cards. There may not be a clear line between the two, and individual users may have different risk tolerances. In cases in which it is clear illegal activity was done to obtain gift cards, the threads should absolutely be removed.

petahasher

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Almost every website has restrictions on gift card sales. It is fraud central. Why then is not a thing done to prevent scams and fraud?

More moderators isn't necessarily a complete fix

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: EcuaMobi on April 29, 2019, 11:01:53 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 29, 2019, 10:24:17 AM

Quote from: petahasher on April 27, 2019, 07:56:29 PM

I would agree with you on this, that a general "digital goods" should be removed, and individual sub-sections placed under "goods" maybe? That way if someone wants to buy illegal gift cards, they can choose that sub-section, and if someone is actively looking for cracked accounts, they can choose the section for it. In general, the banning of illegal activity should be more strongly enforced.

Both the trading of "illegal" gift cards and cracked/hacked accounts are against the rules, which you seem to acknowledge (?).

For some reason, it looks like there are no active moderators in the digital goods sub.

There seem to be 2 problems regarding that. One is more mods are required, or the existing ones need to be more active.

The other problem is that apparently they consider something illegal (and therefore against the rules) only if there's absolutely no doubt. If there's a 99.99% of chances a thread is offering illegal goods then no action is taken because it's plausible the seller is just crazy and is selling at a loss. As a result the whole section is full of illegal items.

The lack of moderators is an easy fix.

As of October 21, 2017, if you are selling a KYC verified account, it is assumed to be hacked (and against the rules) unless you provide an explanation. This rule, could be extended to other types of items such as gift cards, or at a minimum, the seller could be required to attest he obtained the gift cards legally.

There are some legitimate reasons to sell a gift card below its face value, for example if you received it via a loyalty program or some kind of contest and you do not normally shop at the store. Some companies with very high profit margins are fast and loose with giving away credits as a way to get new business.

Despite the above explanations, it is my belief the majority of gift cards sold in the Digital Goods sub either do not exist (a scam attempt), or were somehow obtained illegally.

EcuaMobi

legendary

Activity: 1876

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 29, 2019, 10:24:17 AM

Quote from: petahasher on April 27, 2019, 07:56:29 PM

I would agree with you on this, that a general "digital goods" should be removed, and individual sub-sections placed under "goods" maybe? That way if someone wants to buy illegal gift cards, they can choose that sub-section, and if someone is actively looking for cracked accounts, they can choose the section for it. In general, the banning of illegal activity should be more strongly enforced.

Both the trading of "illegal" gift cards and cracked/hacked accounts are against the rules, which you seem to acknowledge (?).

For some reason, it looks like there are no active moderators in the digital goods sub.

There seem to be 2 problems regarding that. One is more mods are required, or the existing ones need to be more active.

The other problem is that apparently they consider something illegal (and therefore against the rules) only if there's absolutely no doubt. If there's a 99.99% of chances a thread is offering illegal goods then no action is taken because it's plausible the seller is just crazy and is selling at a loss. As a result the whole section is full of illegal items.

PrimeNumber7

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Amazon Prime Member #7

Quote from: petahasher on April 27, 2019, 07:56:29 PM

I would agree with you on this, that a general "digital goods" should be removed, and individual sub-sections placed under "goods" maybe? That way if someone wants to buy illegal gift cards, they can choose that sub-section, and if someone is actively looking for cracked accounts, they can choose the section for it. In general, the banning of illegal activity should be more strongly enforced.

Both the trading of "illegal" gift cards and cracked/hacked accounts are against the rules, which you seem to acknowledge (?).

For some reason, it looks like there are no active moderators in the digital goods sub.

petahasher

member

Activity: 316

Merit: 25

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 27, 2019, 03:26:26 PM

Quote from: sandy-is-fine on April 26, 2019, 09:34:10 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 25, 2019, 07:47:59 PM

Quote from: petahasher on April 25, 2019, 02:42:40 PM

2. Cracked accounts (the majority)

This is already against the rules:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hacked-invitesaccounts-are-not-allowed-1785577

Quote from: theymos on February 10, 2017, 11:21:57 PM

If you did anything illegal in order to obtain an item, then you can't trade it on bitcointalk.org.

I have noticed the Digital Goods, and the Invites subsection is almost entirely made up of transparent scams, or illegal items such as probable money laundering ("Dangerous Thread"). I checked several weeks ago and found nearly every thread in digital goods to be a Dangerous Thread on the first several pages.

I would be interested to see additional child boards such as: "gift cards" "domains" "betting/gambling bots (scripts)" "website templates (scripts)". I don't predict many interesting deals showing up even if the above types of threads are removed from the Digital Goods sub.

Adding multiple new child boards would only move the spammers and scammers into even more sections that the mods have to deal with to move all the crap back and forth. Most of them don't care where they post or how many times they make the same post. Making a RANK requirement of anything below senior member to post anything would only lead to even more bought and sold accounts. I agree with you that probably 90% of the threads are scams and/or illegally obtained cards.

IMO the only things that would partially mitigate the problem is to show full trust ranking to everyone most importantly those not logged in and allowing only SENIOR and above members to create locked and/or self-moderated threads. Yes, it will lead to some more buying and selling of accounts and probably lots of shitposts to increase rank but would substantially decrease the volume of junk from users who create a new alt or 3 every day (or hour) to post their scam threads.

In theory making more sub-sections is a good idea but will put way more pressure on the mods to constantly shuffle things around and sometimes make very subjective decisions.

After I read this thread (before I posted the first time), I reviewed the Invites & Accounts section, and this rule, and I saw many threads on the first couple pages breaking this rule. I created a thread about the problem but it doesn't appear anyone cares, I think because so few people actually read the Invites & Accounts sub.

Moving threads to their own subs would make it so most of the uninteresting threads would be mostly "hidden" from view to the majority of people who is not interested in these obvious scams/illegal activity. This would clear the way for more legitimate threads, in which actual non-illegal, non-scam attempt business can be conducted on the first couple of pages.

I would agree with you on this, that a general "digital goods" should be removed, and individual sub-sections placed under "goods" maybe? That way if someone wants to buy illegal gift cards, they can choose that sub-section, and if someone is actively looking for cracked accounts, they can choose the section for it. In general, the banning of illegal activity should be more strongly enforced.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: sandy-is-fine on April 26, 2019, 09:34:10 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 25, 2019, 07:47:59 PM

Quote from: petahasher on April 25, 2019, 02:42:40 PM

2. Cracked accounts (the majority)

This is already against the rules:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hacked-invitesaccounts-are-not-allowed-1785577

Quote from: theymos on February 10, 2017, 11:21:57 PM

If you did anything illegal in order to obtain an item, then you can't trade it on bitcointalk.org.

I have noticed the Digital Goods, and the Invites subsection is almost entirely made up of transparent scams, or illegal items such as probable money laundering ("Dangerous Thread"). I checked several weeks ago and found nearly every thread in digital goods to be a Dangerous Thread on the first several pages.

I would be interested to see additional child boards such as: "gift cards" "domains" "betting/gambling bots (scripts)" "website templates (scripts)". I don't predict many interesting deals showing up even if the above types of threads are removed from the Digital Goods sub.

Adding multiple new child boards would only move the spammers and scammers into even more sections that the mods have to deal with to move all the crap back and forth. Most of them don't care where they post or how many times they make the same post. Making a RANK requirement of anything below senior member to post anything would only lead to even more bought and sold accounts. I agree with you that probably 90% of the threads are scams and/or illegally obtained cards.

IMO the only things that would partially mitigate the problem is to show full trust ranking to everyone most importantly those not logged in and allowing only SENIOR and above members to create locked and/or self-moderated threads. Yes, it will lead to some more buying and selling of accounts and probably lots of shitposts to increase rank but would substantially decrease the volume of junk from users who create a new alt or 3 every day (or hour) to post their scam threads.

In theory making more sub-sections is a good idea but will put way more pressure on the mods to constantly shuffle things around and sometimes make very subjective decisions.

After I read this thread (before I posted the first time), I reviewed the Invites & Accounts section, and this rule, and I saw many threads on the first couple pages breaking this rule. I created a thread about the problem but it doesn't appear anyone cares, I think because so few people actually read the Invites & Accounts sub.

Moving threads to their own subs would make it so most of the uninteresting threads would be mostly "hidden" from view to the majority of people who is not interested in these obvious scams/illegal activity. This would clear the way for more legitimate threads, in which actual non-illegal, non-scam attempt business can be conducted on the first couple of pages.

sandy-is-fine

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AKA Ms-overzealous-condecsending-explitive-account

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 25, 2019, 07:47:59 PM

Quote from: petahasher on April 25, 2019, 02:42:40 PM

2. Cracked accounts (the majority)

This is already against the rules:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hacked-invitesaccounts-are-not-allowed-1785577

Quote from: theymos on February 10, 2017, 11:21:57 PM

If you did anything illegal in order to obtain an item, then you can't trade it on bitcointalk.org.

I have noticed the Digital Goods, and the Invites subsection is almost entirely made up of transparent scams, or illegal items such as probable money laundering ("Dangerous Thread"). I checked several weeks ago and found nearly every thread in digital goods to be a Dangerous Thread on the first several pages.

I would be interested to see additional child boards such as: "gift cards" "domains" "betting/gambling bots (scripts)" "website templates (scripts)". I don't predict many interesting deals showing up even if the above types of threads are removed from the Digital Goods sub.

Adding multiple new child boards would only move the spammers and scammers into even more sections that the mods have to deal with to move all the crap back and forth. Most of them don't care where they post or how many times they make the same post. Making a RANK requirement of anything below senior member to post anything would only lead to even more bought and sold accounts. I agree with you that probably 90% of the threads are scams and/or illegally obtained cards.

IMO the only things that would partially mitigate the problem is to show full trust ranking to everyone most importantly those not logged in and allowing only SENIOR and above members to create locked and/or self-moderated threads. Yes, it will lead to some more buying and selling of accounts and probably lots of shitposts to increase rank but would substantially decrease the volume of junk from users who create a new alt or 3 every day (or hour) to post their scam threads.

In theory making more sub-sections is a good idea but will put way more pressure on the mods to constantly shuffle things around and sometimes make very subjective decisions.

Jet Cash

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https://JetCash.com

I've got a load of crypto domains that I'd like to sell for Bitcoin, but I've given up trying to sell them on Bitcoin Talk.

petahasher

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Quote from: r1s2g3 on April 25, 2019, 08:47:31 PM

Anybody has any idea about the amount of transactions happens on that board? I always read the stories about someone got scammed there by "Autosell" link in the "Locked" thread.
Removing of the self -moderated thread should be done.
I am not against the thread locking but locked thread cannot be bumped for at least 2 days after unlocking.

Sellers should be encouraged to create a single thread for all related articles, I am currently seeing multiple threads by same seller for all closely related services.

It's not only that. Auto-buy threads should simply not be allowed for lower ranked members. Locking threads should be final - no un-locking threads.

@TECSHARE's idea makes somewhat sense. Higher ranked members should be allowed to have autobuy threads and all that, while lower ranked members are restricted. Bumping rules are also none-existent.

A combination of rules must be implemented, one new change won't fix it all

TECSHARE

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Quote from: petahasher on April 25, 2019, 07:39:11 PM

I don't think restricting access to digital goods would be healthy; the better solution would be to create a new section for all the junk. Every solution has pros/cons, it's just about which one will have the best end result. Goods isn't listed as "physical goods", and "invites & accounts" is classified as digital goods still.

The entire section of the marketplace needs a revamp to be honest - as unlikely as that is, the forum has grown to a point where its level of activity is becoming a problem in sections like these.

Who gets to decide what "junk" is? This is very subjective, again going back to my point of judging features/offerings by the standard of the value they have for you personally only. Pointing out problems is easy, finding a viable solution that doesn't just create more problems is not so much. Perhaps what we need is a marketplace section which is limited to allow further ranked up members only to post there to escape the noise? This way at least you could see more legitimate/useful offerings and the nickel and dime stuff from the noobs is segregated to its own area where it can still be seen but will have less exposure comparatively.

Quote from: r1s2g3 on April 25, 2019, 08:47:31 PM

Anybody has any idea about the amount of transactions happens on that board? I always read the stories about someone got scammed there by "Autosell" link in the "Locked" thread.
Removing of the self -moderated thread should be done.
I am not against the thread locking but locked thread cannot be bumped for at least 2 days after unlocking.

Sellers should be encouraged to create a single thread for all related articles, I am currently seeing multiple threads by same seller for all closely related services.

Just continually removing features is not going to stop ignorant people form getting robbed. Self moderated threads/locking serve legitimate purposes of being able to control what is essentially a sales ad, not a discussion.

r1s2g3

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I am alive but in hibernation.

Anybody has any idea about the amount of transactions happens on that board? I always read the stories about someone got scammed there by "Autosell" link in the "Locked" thread.
Removing of the self -moderated thread should be done.
I am not against the thread locking but locked thread cannot be bumped for at least 2 days after unlocking.

Sellers should be encouraged to create a single thread for all related articles, I am currently seeing multiple threads by same seller for all closely related services.

OgNasty

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That’s why I post my Bitmain hardware coupons in the computer hardware section where people appreciate them to be but mods always move them to digital goods. Cry

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: petahasher on April 25, 2019, 02:42:40 PM

2. Cracked accounts (the majority)

This is already against the rules:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hacked-invitesaccounts-are-not-allowed-1785577

Quote from: theymos on February 10, 2017, 11:21:57 PM

If you did anything illegal in order to obtain an item, then you can't trade it on bitcointalk.org.

I have noticed the Digital Goods, and the Invites subsection is almost entirely made up of transparent scams, or illegal items such as probable money laundering ("Dangerous Thread"). I checked several weeks ago and found nearly every thread in digital goods to be a Dangerous Thread on the first several pages.

I would be interested to see additional child boards such as: "gift cards" "domains" "betting/gambling bots (scripts)" "website templates (scripts)". I don't predict many interesting deals showing up even if the above types of threads are removed from the Digital Goods sub.

petahasher

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Merit: 25

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 25, 2019, 07:06:26 PM

Quote from: petahasher on April 25, 2019, 03:59:30 PM

Quote from: EcuaMobi on April 25, 2019, 03:44:52 PM

Absolutely, a lot of things must be done there:

Adding new subsections, as you propose. They could include: gift cards/coupons, domains/websites, scripts/templates/software, ...
Better checking for items not on the right sections, too frequent bumps, illegal items, ... Maybe another moderator is required in addition to the existing ones.
Showing trust to guests or requiring to register before visiting that section
Disabling self-moderated threads and not allowing to unlock locked threads

How have I never noticed your threads? The last three are especially true. It's completely necessary, and I imagine the fix is extremely simple and won't take 5 minutes. Self-moderated threads should not ever be a thing, locking threads to unlock for a bump should not be a thing, and trust should always be visible. I'll visit your threads, the marketplace could be so much more active and efficient, as well as alot less scams happening if these simple changes are made.

The self moderated threads were largely put in to place FOR the marketplace section because some users would use them to harass/troll people trying to trade legitimately. The logic being a sales ad does not necessarily need to be a conversation, and any fraudulent activity can be dealt with by rating, posting in scam/rep, or reporting forum abuses. The same goes for locking threads. It is a mistake to consider only the features valuable to you personally as the only valuable features, because that kind of thinking works both ways. I would suggest a rank requirement to post any digital goods. The only problem is, as it is now, people will try to post digital goods in other sections to get around this mess. About 80% of the posts I report in the goods section is stuff that belongs in digital goods currently, so there will be blow back to other sections as a direct result.

I don't think restricting access to digital goods would be healthy; the better solution would be to create a new section for all the junk. Every solution has pros/cons, it's just about which one will have the best end result. Goods isn't listed as "physical goods", and "invites & accounts" is classified as digital goods still.

The entire section of the marketplace needs a revamp to be honest - as unlikely as that is, the forum has grown to a point where its level of activity is becoming a problem in sections like these.

Topic: Digital goods section is a mess (Read 589 times)