Topic: Discussion needed: xtraelv and Lafu activities (Read 685 times)

While I disagree with some of the opinions on here and find the whole accusation stupid.  In my opinion I have done nothing wrong and neither has Lafu.

However I have spoken to Lafu and agreed that we should not use merits on each others posts to avoid suspicion.

This message was the one that made me smile and realise I have spent far to much time on this nonsense.

Thanks mate, appreciate it.
You are doing well by the way. I am pretty sure, soon to see you rank up too. Keep up the good works.

I have changed the font size and all these unnecessary formatting. Looks much better now. It was the reflection of losing my mind LOL

@mdayonliner first congratulations on ranking up...

Well I have been following you (reading your frequent entries in meta sections) and never saw you loosing cool like this in your last post.

I'm sure you know better how to handle the situation... would have been better if you answered the concerned parties individually.

See in your last post too many colors/fonts/bold/italic making it unreadable and people will miss your point.

Nah mate, you didn't understand me well. What I wanted to say is that by not being bothered to read about merit and how's it used, you got yourself into this situation. Like playing with a gun when it accidentally goes off. You didn't mean to, but you did.

It's not like liking a facebook post, it's completely different by definition and it's not even close to "like" by some other meaning. It would be more similar to subscribe on youtube or sub/donate on twitch.

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The reason is, you and your harsh attitude. Your childish activities, non-sense claims. Your problem is you notice less, understand less but talk more, you are a big mouth in my view.

This was my simple explanation: xtraelv: You are doing it wrong
We could have a better ending if you read it and acted accordingly instead, you have chosen a way to humiliate me for nothing!

Why these harsh words everywhere?

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You post same shit everywhere, a new way of spamming...
http://archive.is/BHD1Y#selection-7507.0-7519.62

http://archive.is/zU24W#selection-2299.0-2307.49

http://archive.is/tE40M#selection-1283.0-1295.49

http://archive.is/sU84r#selection-1987.0-1995.62

Just stop posting same shit on my topics. It's spamming.

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Your ignorance

oopsy! seems like you edited your comment!! Did i tell you yesterday that I was looking your activities? Here what you said originally.

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You said it mate. Thumbs up! @eddie13

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And don't mix up me with my brother. We don't even live in the same country. I have declared on the trust page with a very good explanation that mahimonliner IS my younger brother. A better explanation is here I gave to marlboroza when we had conflict You tagged him for no reason. Remove his tag.

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This is the scale of the problem on Bitcointalk. Nothing is done about it.
Not removing all the dodgy links to people selling exchange accounts is likely to eventually come to the attention of the likes of the SEC, FINSEC or symilar.



Each exchange has their own methods of KYC compliance. Someone buying a verified account with a $50K (or higher) daily limit can do a lot of laundry before getting caught. Especially straight after a big hack like Coincheck.

They delisted lots of coins. They increased the price for listing to discourage new listings. They reduced the amount of coins listed by 20%

API spam and malicious bot activity increased. That is currently being addressed.

Come on. If they can't solve "KYC problems" they shouldn't be in this business.

There are other ways to limit growth too. Don't list every shitcoin under the sun maybe.

I wasn't referring the malice to anyone other than the OP. Hey - I may be wrong but I find it hard to believe someone randomly clicks someones "merit".
Out of the 19 cases this is the only one being discussed in a seperate thread to draw attention to it. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/done-with-the-topic-new-format-merit-abuser-gang-now-18-1-cases-3168616
In my entire time on Bitcointalk I had one message removed by a moderator. That was at the same time as this merit issue. The removed message didn't break the rules. It was politically motivated for calling out a scam. Co-incidence ? Maybe... or people are getting played.

I assist in removing between 1000 to 5000 spam/scam messages daily from a forum. I hate spammers & scammers with a vengance.

116 staff and an unpaid mod with english problems is the only one there most of the time? Besides you?
I don't know, I haven't been back there in a while since they banned me one too many times..

When I was talking about cryptopia previously having problems I meant the first few times anything was posted about "cryptopia" here.. Way back..

The reason new accounts seem to be treated poorly is that their are more alt spam accounts and bot accounts made here everyday than you can imagine, most are up to no good..
THIS IS WHY the merit system was put into place and why you got yourself called out on it..

At first glance it looks like you are sending merit to your alt account, like 95% of the cases that look like yours..
If we were all so terrible to noobs we would not have even considered your innocence.. A lot of good people here took their time to come to the conclusion..

You can think it's malice all you want, but being a "scambuster" you should know that the people you are responding to here bust 100 spammers/scammers (accounts) a day at times by analyzing merit and crypto transactions, and they deserve it..
If you look, their are threads specifically analyzing all the merit ever transacted on this forum with all kinds of stats, charts, and graphs so yeah people analyze merit a heck of a lot and the reason you were singled out is your suspicious merit activity..

You giving all of your merit to one account is a bullseye on your back that you are one of these spammers the forum is fighting, but look it seems people have come to the conclusion that you are innocent..

Actually, this method of bringing these cases to the public, like yours was, works pretty darn good to clear innocent peoples name.
I know I don't like seeing people get screwed when they don't deserve it, and I'm pretty sure a lot of others don't either by the way they come here on their own time to personally dig into these cases and find the truth..

mdayonliner might be a bit new and anxious to bust spammers, and they saw the target on your back that you made, and now you are one of the few that get let off the hook..  
"I didn't know" doesn't get many people off either..

I suggest you lose the hostility about your situation and bring yourself to a good understanding of the culture of btct, so you can get along swimmingly by avoiding mistakes like this and become a fine upstanding member..

Stopping accounts doesn't help anything. They tried stopping registrations. It just causes KYC problems and serious legal issues.

The problem is mainly on bitcointalk and other forums. Also ebay.



https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/sell-account-on-bittrex-urgent-2590167

All those crappy exchanges with support issues made the choice to neglect their customers. They could have stopped new user registrations or deposits or otherwise slowed down their growth to allow themselves to catch up but they didn't. Cashing in on the bubble was too important. It's quite disingenuous of you to blame the customers when Cryptopia's policy has been - and still is as far as I can see - "send us the money but if you want it back be prepared to wait three months for your ticket to get resolved".

I would suggest that you walk away before you dig the hole too deep. That whole Cryptopia nonsense is just gonna earn you more red trust for shilling this shitty-borderline-scammy exchange. Trust is not moderated and mdayonliner is not in DT so there is nothing you can do.

You might have noticed that I don't have any Cryptopia signature or adverts on my profile. I have strong links with a number of exchanges.
I'm not reponsible for their issues, have no control over their issues but have tried to help users get resolutions. How bad is that ?

As a crypto investor you get associations with many coins, exchanges and people.

Cryptopia has changed from being run by 2-3 people last year to now being run by a new CEO and about 116 staff. Only one founder still works there part time.

The main reason I come on bitcointalk is to expose scams and to assist users that post in the Cryptopia thread because bitcointalk is largely ignored by their staff.


I don't even particularly like bitcointalk because the new users get treated quite poorly.



Cryptopia was beaten up because their systems couldn't cope with the volume and support requests were astronomical. It is only logical and understandable that users became upset.

As a mod I tried to do what I could during that time. The rest of the time I largely ignore that thread. Usually Lafu is on there on his own trying to do his best with limited English.  Every exchange gets hammered on here. Exchange users don't read, don't research and have opinions about things they know little about. They hit the nuclear button when their funds are stuck and disappear once it is resolved. They gravitate to here to voice their opinions on here because abusive behaviour is largely unmoderated.  I prefer spending months unravelling complex scams where people have actually lost funds and preventing others from losing their funds.

I'm also not convinced that this is without malice. I can't imagine someone analysing someones "merits" for no reason when they don't have time to message those users. I suspect ulterior motive.

Murder by neglect ? We are talking about something slightly less trivial as "liking" someone on facebook. If the merit system wasn't supposed to be used then it shouldn't have been introduced. If it was anymore complex than giving credit to someone that you believed deserves it - it should have been outlined better in the instructions.

I find this whole trial by lynchmob quite abhorrent.

Thank you everyone, for the feedbacks you have left so far on this topic. I will wait for some more feedbacks from different members until I make a summary of this topic. Right now I am working on a tutorial for the Beginners & Help section to add on the topic Self development and BitcoinTalk [Must read for new members]. I already added some views in the other topic which created against me on the Scam Accusations board. I quote it below...

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@Tyrantt, I love it (the statement)  

so much that we're getting really close to "shoot first, ask questions later" situation.

Right now, I do think that they've intentionally traded smaller amount of merit between one another but I don't think it was with serious intents of trading merit against the rules. Something like "murder from neglect" (I believe I've picked the right term).

So yeah, they are friends, have common interests, do the same things, post in the same threads..
I think you could consider them both members of "team cryptopia" or something like that..

I can see why he thinks that lafu's posts are very worthy of merit from his perspective, and it's very possible that he didn't know this would draw great suspicion upon him..


I'm pretty sure what happened is cryptopia staff came here not knowing btct very well, and they attempted to promote cryptopia like many other companies do..

They didn't know the etiquette of btct so they unknowingly broke some rules for multiple threads and such..
Common btct noob mistakes but the admins of topia are hotheads with huge egos so instead of learning a battle ensued resulting in topia admins pretty much writing off btct and blocking btct links from their chats and stuff..  


Cryptopia has been hammered a lot on btct to the point to where you would almost feel bad for them but they bring it on themselves..

This thread is pretty much a continuation of cryptopia not knowing WTF they are doing and getting themselves into trouble.. Probably..

I mean, Ill give xtraelv the benefiet of the doubt that he didn't know that he would cause trouble for himself with his meriting activity, and I'm sure all of this crap that just got stirred up over his use of merit is a pretty good big warning to him and hopefully he will brush up on btct culture/etiquette and act accordingly..

Cryptopia has really been beaten up a lot here on btct for not knowing what they are doing so I say you don't wreck this guys account yet, make sure he is well aware (I think he is) of the problem, and lets hope he can end the cycle of cryptopia/btct - Hatfield/McCoy rivalry..

OK, and I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in this case--not that I would tag you anyway.  Just understand that there's so much abuse going on with the merit system that a merit history like yours sticks out like a sore thumb.  Mdayonliner is looking out for such things, as are other members and you got onto their radar apparently.  

As I said, the amount of uncertainty in tagging people I think are abusing merits keeps me from tagging them, as well as Theymos's statement that he doesn't think they should be tagged.  I understand very well that "friends" tend to merit each other and there may not be any bad intention behind this.  I've given lots of merit out to members I respect, and while they're not exactly "friends", it's the same principle.

Edit:
Or like depraved indifference.  I've always had a fondness for that legal term for some reason.

Well - you're wrong. I've never spoken to Lafu about merits until yesterday when I became aware of these claims. Like I said before: I couldn't care less about receiving merits.

Really? You sure it is me? I haven't sent you even a merit! Lol. That's a surprise for me too because you're one of the best posters on bitcointalk!  
But not anymore! It would be a shame for me if I am applying for a merit source and not meriting you. So let's begin with that. We are alts now. 

I'm not sure either, but I'd put it at 90% sure that xtraelv and Lafu have some sort of arrangement for those merits that were exchanged.  Either they're friends, they're alts, or there was some goods, services, or money exchanged.  I don't know, but the pattern of their merit-giving is suspect and not normal.

On the other hand--and I've said this before--you might look at my merit history and think that I'm buying merits from pugman, TMAN, and Foxpup, since they've left some for me multiple times.  That's not the case, however.  We frequent many of the same threads and apparently they just like my posts.  And I've left merits for them and others numerous times, which could look suspicious.  And while I can scream it from the hills that there's nothing nefarious going on, there's no proof that there's not.

This is why I'm not tagging suspected merit abusers.  There's just way too much subjectivity involved and it makes my conscience itch.  However, in THIS case, where not many other people have merited OP....that's strange.  It definitely stands out when the majority of merits come from one member and not many from anyone else.

Whoops!  I didn't look before posting this, and my coffee obviously hasn't kicked in yet.  I take that back then.  I don't know why I thought that--maybe I got you confused with someone else.  Maybe I'm just confused in general. 

Wrong.

You should not rely on merit alone to make the conclusions you're making. If you have other proof that they're alts then you have a case. Sending or receiving merit is not proof of anything.

Having said that, it's up to you how you want to use your neg feedback.

They weren't for just particular posts. The merits are not something that I find particularly relevant. I had them - it warned not to keep them. So I gave them to the person I found deserving of them. For the general contribution to helping out people on here.

One post was for announcement that addressed the most critical issue affecting users at the time.
One post was for an announcement that users had been looking forward the most. (endless "when is the doge market re-opening" questions)
One post is just a general post I merited because I had points and didn't want them to expire .



I've looked at "sMerit" three times since March. I gave them out when I saw that I had them.

Look at Lafu's total merit points  - why would he care one bit whether he got 19 points from me or not ?



This nonsense is a storm in a teacup. I didn't even know Cryptodevil had given me merit until yesterday. I couldn't care less about receiving merits.

Nobody in their right mind who looks into the relevant posts is going to believe this.

I didn't even know what "smerit " was or that I had it until March. Lafu helps out a lot of people on the forum for no reward in his own time. It said that smerits could expire in the future so I gave it to him. I didn't even know that he had given me merit until recently when I found out that merit existed. I don't even see what the big deal is. I couldn't care less about merit I receive.

The merit message said they could expire so I gave them to the person I found most deserving.

I didn't look into it - and having looked at the rules now - wouldn't change my decision.

The merits were given in full accordance to the rules: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/faq-everything-you-need-to-know-about-forum-activity-account-ranks-and-merit-2766177



Neither Lafu nor myself are "customer support" .We are both UNPAID volunteer moderators on Cryptopia - I have never met Lafu but I chat with him occasionally. We live 18000km apart on different sides of the planet.

Lafu helps users with problems on bitcointalk while I generally am involved in busting scams on here. As moderators we have some special priviliges, abilities and contacts to help people that have issues with the exchange. Neither of us have to be on here because generally Cryptopia ignores this "bitcointalk" forum because it is largely unmoderated and often has abusive people on it. So their staff doesn't generally post on here.

Do not be fooled by this blackmailing spam clown.

Full explaination and blackmail scam accusation against mdayonliner has been made here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mdayonliner-4019640

I'll be honest when I say that I'm not sure. This can very well be a situation of someone finding useful information. I don't see any pattern in merit trading (if there is any) and it's not that xtraelv's posts are complete nonsense. Also, since they're both in customer support, I do not think that post like these should deserve merit in any way, since they're just doing their job and should be receiving "merit" from their employers.

Now the same thing goes for [ANN] threads.

So my opinion is:  They probably aren't doing merit trading on purpose or that those two alts are connected. But I do think that they're using merit as it is not intended to be used. Tho, I just as well may be wrong,

I have a merit abuser investigation topic. I do it voluntary, to support the forum value and to be dutiful to the forum. So far, I have 18 cases with 82 (I might be wrong for few, after all I am a human) abusers in the list including xtraelv and Lafu. I tag this merit abusers with a red trust, when I see 100% evidence of their merit abusing in my investigation. I also always keep a reference in my red trust.

I completely understand that my red trust means nothing since I am not a DT member however the goal is, to knock the merit abuser and aware them that they are abusing merit system. Once they admit and acknowledge then I remove the red trust with a neutral trust to keep a log for the future with a hope that the user has been warned. Here, I have one of the case...









 



¹_{Can be ALT, can be favour (exchange), can be trading with money}

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References:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.36795713	<==== Original investigation
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.37797512	<==== Explaining his views are wrong
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mdayonliner-4019640	<==== Scam Accusations Topic