Topic: DIY PCB with AVALON: "The Quarter Stick" - Needs Help! - page 29. (Read 89497 times)

That sounds good. Im interested in!
Design should allow adding many ASIC PCBs, so you can put together quite powerfull miner.

So once there is a ready made plan for this how will this made going? Groupbuys for the chips and everyone buys the remaining hardware and gets the plans and software for free or how can this work/is planned?

The information i found stated 450W for 3 modules not including PSU. USB is 5VDC nominal +/- 5% limiting the device to 2.5W total. We'd need around 300 - 500mW for micro and clock generation. The rest of your math looks spot on.

So far I'm up to to around US$7 in parts, not including the Avalon chip, with a few technical assumptions. Assuming we'd get the avalon for $2 - $5, a unit price for a usb miner under $15 is realistic. For the next generation, hopefully they include a PLL on die!

Sam.

I wonder if BitSyncom would consider distributing 5-10k chips to a trusted individual to serve as their developer contact. "Want to work with our chips? Contact xxx, provide $100 collateral, and we'll ship you 16 chips, the chip pinouts and specifications, and a sample controller to get started. Place an order for 10k chips and your collateral applies towards that order."

Yeah, I appreciate that. Just hoping there will be some chips available for development when the time comes.
I guess I should have said sampled 20 to 30 parts followed by a purchase of tens of thousands of parts.

Power consumption = amps * volts. Avalon's power consumption at the wall, through the PSU, is ~620w @ 120v, so 5.16 amps @ 120v. The PSU converts that down to +12vdc to feed each of the three modules, figuring ~80% efficiency let's just call that 500w of +12vdc. This is 41.6 amps of +12vdc. Now each module has groups of chips fed by a +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter to feed the cores. ~500w @ +12vdc divided by 240 chips = ~2w per chip BEFORE the losses of the +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter. Those are usually incredibly efficient, let's call it 95%, so 475w of +1.2vdc, 395 amps.

I'm sure I'm butchering all the math here with calculating PSU efficiencies and such but this shows 1.979 watts @ +1.2vdc or 1.64 amps per chip.

I hope this makes sense to you. With these numbers, 3 of their chips, which provides (63,000/240)*3=786MH/s could be powered by a USB port providing 0.5 amps @ +12vdc. Call it 2 chips to give a nice buffer under the 0.5 amp limit and you have a neat little device. It won't generate crap for BTC though.. better off targeting something in the 5-10 GH/s range.

I am looking into purchasing a minimum (10,000) chip order and will wholesale them to any developers who can't afford an entire batch.

BitSyncom,
         Thanks for chiming in!

     Let me try pitching this idea to you at a different angle. I understand you would be very supportive
of this project and any others related; however, your plate is REALLY full. And I would assume you probably
feel a lot of reservation allowing something like this to progress without your constant input and guidance.
So, what do you do? Just brush it off?!?! until your ready? That would be understandable.

I believe there is a lot of programming talent lingering in these forums. And it has been painful for many of them
including myself sitting in the waiting room while a few companies try to give birth to an ASIC and deliver on
a mass scale. We would like jump in and be a part of it.

I think the amount of information required for us to get started is minimal. And I kindly ask for you to take
just a moment to give us some guidance and then just trust that we will do ok. Sure, we might mess up and
have to re spin a PCB design or two, but that is ok. We can finalize the firmware a few months from now
when the spec's are fully prepared.

Could you please answer two questions in the OP:

"My two biggest design hurdles at the moment:
1)Frequency driver for the Avalon ASIC. What is the input frequency?
I assume it has a clock multiplier, but if not I will need to reconsider that portion of
the design.

2) Having no idea how work is passed to the chip, would 8 data lines with a frequency
of 48 MHz cause a bottleneck? If so, by how much?"

Would you tell also tell us what the PINOUT is?

Would you sell us around 20 to 30 chips so we could build boards right away
and send them out to anyone that wants to help develop?

I think this is all we need to get started and we can worry about the finalization
a few months from now when the spec's are finalized. This would be so much
better than starting the project from scratch a few months from now. I think
it is potentially in your best interests as well. It would be like having an army of
engineers working for you for free.

Thanks for the consideration,
          Allten

Thanks for the update. How about just a dump of your design notes with a disclaimer? It'd mean I could get started on the design.

Sam.

BitSyncom ,

What about providing your PCB design files+components list for a start?

It will save you a lot of time writing documentation. I am not saying documentation is useless but. I am sure that it will be helpful to hardware guys here to move forward while waiting for documentation. What do you think allten?

on the site, it clearly we are selling chips, just gotta get some documentation together before we can move forward.

it's a on going battle with ideology and pragmatism, this is going to take some time, but it'll come.

As long will help each other with our skills we will make it!
Who say's it is easy? It is not impossible right? Apart of the profit alone which matters it will bring us a lot of joy which money can not buy all the times

1. 5V or 12V power
2. 1.2V DC-DC efficienct regulator module
3. avalon chips
4. ?
5. profit!

(Seriously, I don't think it's *that* easy... Who is doing the PCB? Who is writing the Firmware?)

Right but I did not state the core voltage was 120V. The stated power consumption of an Avalon is 620w @ 120v which is what I used in my estimate. If the core voltage is 1.2V then each chip uses ~24mW by my estimates.

Core voltage is 1.2V, not 120V.

So you want to get the avalon chips offer they wrote about. 10000 chips minimum, right? I really would be interested if its possible to get the knowledge together to build something with these chips. But the first thing to find out would be if they will deliver the chips. I mean everything would base on this.

+1

This is a great idea I've also been exploring.


I also have been waiting for a response to my request for more info on purchasing bulk chips. I'm sure they are inundated with inquiries but it's been awhile since they added that info to the F.A.Q. so I wonder if anybody has learned anything yet.


How did you work that out exactly? My napkin calcs came up with a little more than 0.02A/chip. Each Avalon has 240 chips and uses 620w@120v AC. 620w@120v is 5.2A divided by 240 chips is 0.02A/chip. Edit: Obviously this doesn't account the power used by other components and PSU efficiency etc...

At any rate I also am very interested at producing smaller more affordable miners using Avalon chips and a DIY project might keep it out of the hands of the greedy and would be perfect for true believers.

From the various specs i found floating around, core is 256MHz, 1.15 - 1.2v.  I/O is 8 lines at 3.3v. I worked out the chip would consume around 1700mW. That'll be at the core voltage so 1.5A per chip should do it. Easily within USB power limits even with a typical DC-DC stage.

Unless we can find a micro that can output a 256MHz secondary oscillator, we need an external oscillator block (if the core - i/o is asynchronous) or a PLL to multiply the micro oscillator.

I'm not a fan of making a through-hole soldering kit. Way too geeky and more expensive than a fully built and tested SMT device.  While work with 250MHz, physical wiring tolerances are a concern. A large blob of solder in the wrong place may be OK at DC but at 250MHz, couples signals to other tracks. Happy to help with an SMT design.

I can't be of much help right now. On vacation with just a tablet!

Sam.

+1 Dude,

I do really hope that they will start to sell chips, because without them it can never happen. I have mailed/PMd them a couple of times and still nothing. We have to wait for sure.

Let all of us keep this thread alive! With valuable information which is already posted And with following  Avalon comments also

Final Update (Nov 18 2013):
So, I have finally taken care of the butterfly infestation at my home.
Then it was time to get back to this project and see where it should go.
I spent the weekend building up a few boards with the chips that "daemondazz" had sent (Thank You!).
Everything works except the Nonce capture from the Avalon Chip. The design needs
revised for a better clock filter from the incoming data out of the Avalon. It might as well be revised
for the 55nM chip as well. I believe there is already a good solution found in this open source design
for a clock filter: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/open-source-avalon-gen2-55nm-board-323175

Honestly, I don't have the drive to complete this project only because a single chip miner
seem so pointless given how the mining world has shaped up so far so fast and where it is going.
I would like to dedicate my energies on helping out on some other Open Source projects.

If there is anyone that has the ambition to finish this, PM me. I'll be happy to send
all the Eagle cad Files and materials to help out. This would include x10 55nM Avalon
sample chips and I also have a pickit 3 available if needed. I would also be happy
to share what I've learned and insights that would help get this project to the finish line faster.
Just hoping for the right person that can put the drive back into this and make it happen.

Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DIY Setup for a little over $200:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2374824

PCB Version A0 (Build 0). All files found here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2426942

Low Cost DIY ASIC Miner

Purpose:
This thread is intended for the development of a very low cost DIY open source
ASIC miner based on Avalon's chips. Hopefully, it will inspire other Bitcoin ASIC
manufactures to offer their chips as well.

Objectives:
* Get ASICs in the hands of the masses ASAP.

* Create the cheapest solution possible. The lowest possible price is the goal.
The $ per hash ratio is not expected to be the best.

* Make it simple enough that anyone with a DIY spirit can assemble one of these with
some simple low priced tools.
https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/category/2
DIY manufacturing may be an avenue to get these out much faster.
Expect a few hours assembly time per board.

*Make the PCB design that is not only DIY friendly, but mass production friendly as well.
It will use surface mount technology.

*Inspire more ASIC Bitcoin Mining manufactures to pop up all over the world (Decentralization).
ASIC manufacturing in general is the most complicated production process in the world.
IMO, the best thing for Bitcoin would be for ASIC Bitcoin Manufactures to be decoupled from
final product production; or at least offer their chips as well on top of their final products.

Specifications (subject to change):
* USB power source is all that is required.
* Utilizes a single Avalon ASIC
* 256+ MH/s
* 2 Watt maximum power usage
* TYPE A USB Male option on either side of the PCB
* Type B USB Female option
* More to come

Sponsors:
*Burnin - He is a serious manufacture of Bitcoin mining equipment. He has committed to helping
with the open source software/firmware to make this project function. He has started an official
thread for his miners and it's worth checking out:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/work-in-progess-burnins-avalon-chip-to-mining-board-service-179769

*Zefir - He is preordaining Avalon ASICs in smaller quantities for anyone interested:
funds: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-avalon-asic-chip-distribution-177827
Zefir is committed to helping this low cost DIY project be successful by making a small quantity
of chips available for ordering and development.

Team:
All of you! An open source design also means its open to anyone. Feel free to take the initiative
to help out in your own way. Please don't get discouraged as it may take time to figure
out where your talents fit in best. I have received an overwhelming quantity of supportive emails
and also many request to help out. I wasn't prepared for that, but now, I would like to make
a list of anyone that wants to get involved here and what they would like to bring to the table.
Shoot me ANOTHER email and I will add you name here.

"Someone42" who was the inspiration and pioneer in hardware wallets has offered his help here.
"Burnin" has also offered his help, but is also very busy as he is preparing his own miner.

Allten's Commitment:
I will engineer the schematic and the PCB. As soon as the chip specifications are available, I will
release within a week a preliminary design for feedback. I will personally manufacture enough
of these to get them in the hands of all those that will be helping with firmware/software development.
After that, a detailed tutorial will be made on how to order and produce these by yourself.

Important note: I do not want to become a distributor for these for the simple fact I would like
to have time available for other projects I'm passionate about. This is a golden opportunity for anyone
or a few people to become distributors of DIY kits and already assembled miners. I will assist anyone
to get set up for this once I've completed the tutorial.

Funding:
Sending some coins would be very helpful and greatly appreciated.
1AqEzSiw7aqZ7T53XvXMqrcnUD5tKcvJxP
What will donations cover? Enough to order the parts and PCBs for the initial boards used for development.
All extra will be used to drive bounties for software/firmware development.
I get the feeling that many have ordered chips with confidence that there will be a PCB solution
readily available before the ASICs arrive. If that is the case, consider donating up to 5% of
what you invested in chips to this project. It would sure help hurry it a long! Much of the bounty portion
may go to "burnin" as his code development for the controller portion will be shared with this project and
he is most heavily invested to make it work along with his product ASAP.