Topic: Do you think "iamnotback" really has the" Bitcoin killer"? - page 17. (Read 79954 times)

Did you see the system they did with nubits/nushare ? Seemed to get in that direction to separate monetary unit from décision power with 2 tokens.

https://www.nubits.com/nushares/introduction

NuShares are units held by individuals who wish to help support and maintain the Nu network. Owning NuShares is not required to use NuBits. Instead, NuShares are intended to be a source of network equity for developers, entrepreneurs, and speculators. NuShareholders can receive network revenues in the form of Peercoin dividends paid out by a custodian.



What can NuShareholders vote on?

There are several actions NuShareholders can vote on. The actions to vote on are Custodian votes, Park Rate votes, Motion votes and Transaction Fees. NuShareholders will be able to vote on these different network actions when a block is minted. By setting their vote in the client it will be recorded into the blockchain each time they mint a block. The purposes of these categories of votes are to select custodians to maintain the network, choose interest rates for parking, make decisions on the development of the network, and determine how much using NuBits should cost a user.

The buzz word for this is collaborative economy

Agreed, a generic strategic methodology for becoming insanely wealthy like Roger Ver is identifying the Next Big Thing™ in its infancy and riding that wave.

In Bitcoin early adopters were rewarded for contributing to the security by PoW mining.

In BitNet early adopters will be rewarded for contributing to the marketing, economy, and liquidity. Security in BitNet is provided by the single-minded (Nash equilibrium) hive of the users, as there are no miners, no PoW! But it isn't PoS, i.e. afaics it doesn't suffer from nothing-at-stake nor whales dominance.


You are referring to distribution, not security. Remember Satoshi's design for Bitcoin provided distribution and security with PoW. BitNet's security is orthogonal to its method of distribution of tokens. BitNet is initially inflationary while onboarding (hopefully billions of people). When onboarding becomes mature and transactions overtake onboarding, then BitNet becomes deflationary due to burning transaction fees with a perpetually divisible unit (i.e. the satoshi in BitNet gets smaller and smaller as time goes by but never reaching 0, i.e. Zeno's paradox of the hare and the tortoise, but not to be conflated with the Zeno's tarpit). Note that doesn't mean the value of your hodlings get smaller. Your hodlings don't change until you transfer them and then you burn a tiny transaction fee (very tiny!). Actually hodlings will increase due to the interest rate you will be paid for hodling.


You can invest in app devs who offer to pay a dividend in BitNet tokens from their revenues in tokens.

You can be a content provider. Many of the apps are useless without content, e.g. if I launch with a blogging app a la Steem (but mine will be better!). If you write blogs for my planned blogging app, you don't get paid by upvoting. You get paid by the amount of onboarding attributable to your blog post as measured objectively on the blockchain.

Also you can do direct onboarding marketing if you are better at that, such as promoting BitNet on your social media accounts.

I am not going to tell you all the details now. These are supposed to be secrets, but I've pretty much spilled the beans now. You can deduce the rest without asking me please. All the details will of course be publicly stated when we are ready to launch.


Well yes it requires more actual work. And this is an advantage for you, because then aren't competing against those who have huge capital and resources to mine with and not competing with botnets. Mining is a very corrupt way to launch a coin because most people don't know how to mine and even most miners don't know how to source and use the theft of botnets.

But it should end up being very highly paid work.

Another work you can do is providing liquidity, so that means finding users who will sell you their tokens in exchange for BTC (or XMR or ETH). We probably need a "in game" decentralized exchange chat bot similar to Byteball.

You could make some social media Facebook group for buying tokens or what have you, especially while BitNet is not yet on any (major) exchange. Your imagination and clever resourcefulness is the limitation.

You could market an investment fund to the users. So many creative ideas are possible.


We want the whales to be those who are most invested in the system. If you find a clever way to accumulate more tokens, then we want you as a whale, because you would have provided marketing and liquidity (possibly even education to the newbies also).

This is a meritocracy.


The quality of the apps will be driven by the quality of the objective metric employed to measure onboarding. You are astute to recognize that.

We have to make sure that what we the investors are paying for (since we pay with debasement during onboarding until later when the token becomes deflationary) is the value we need in order to grow the economy and ecosystem.

Thus manipulable metrics such as Likes and downloads are not acceptable.

The metric must measure more accurately the real value of the activity in the system. We can't use payments as a metric, because that can be gamed by paying yourself pretending to be someone else or another entity.

How do you measure cognitive engagement as opposed to mindless or automatable activities?


I'm leaning to BitNet instead of OpenShare. Although the sharing economy is cliche now, it is not as crisp when spoken and "sharing" is communistic when not qualified with the notion of an Inverse Commons form of mutually beneficial self-interest. We are driving against socialist memes.

Bitcoin is good for its shock value (a bit and a coin, hmmm), but its weakness is per my reply to @miscreanity, it causes people to pigeonhole Bitcoin into a niche of speculation. BitNet is more diluted by the "net" permutations of names existant, but it has three advantages:

1. Free rides (actually somewhat complementary) on Bitcoin's brand (but not in an obnoxious copycoin manner, e.g. not Bitoken nor Bitscoin nor Bitcoin+ nor BitcoinDark)
2. A portmanteau which describes a new Internet (which fits perfectly with the generality of the utility of this decentralized protocol a la WWW or TCP/IP).
3. A crisp two syllables, easy to spell and say, 6 letter domain name.

Bitnet.org is for sale $20k. We'll be able to afford that once we are launched. So we'll go with Bitnet.cash for the interim time. We can try to ask if Uphold will donate Bitnet.io to us since they no longer need it, but we don't really need it. Maybe give them some free promotion in return.

@AM: http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/

You read that? MP doesnt also believe there can be a bitcoin killer. According to him our only goal should be to accumulate as much bitcoins as possible. And thats what everyone is doing today, including banks and states. All the fud around the fork and the hype around alts are just schemes to grab precious bitcoins from us.


This is also relevant today:



I love his blog.

Edit: ah yeah you read it, you even commented on it; btw, i'd really like you to take on his advice and write on a blog. it's very hard to follow you up on bitcointalk with all these nicknames change and all the different people intervening.

That is why we can kick ass versus Bitcoin in terms of onboarding, because we can offer dozens of apps which interest users in different ways and then the buzz will spread that all these apps are based on the BitNet: a new form of Internet that even powers mobile apps. We're building a new high-level, decentralized protocol for the Internet.

For the finance crowd which you are in contact with, they are starting to be aware that Bitcoin is transforming the financial system as Nash's Ideal Money predicts. So yes the bubble of Bitcoin is underway. I say bubble because I believe Bitcoin has some fundamental flaws (and even the concept of one perfected Ideal Money is flawed, although asymptotically as a decentralized concept of many competing attempts to create a more honest monetary system, Nash's theory is correct because decentralization of control anneals if there is a greater collective/net opportunity cost to not converging, i.e. if decentralized money is an Inverse Commons not a Tragedy-of-the-Commons).


The entire point of Bitcoin seems to be this Nash Ideal Money that we've been discussing over at the Bitcoin Discussion forum, but this is of no interest to most people. That is a very abstract finance concept, so Bitcoin has a huge disadvantage in marketing compared to our plan. And the mass media are doing our marketing for us, by popularizing the meme "Bit".


Bitcoin is only a speculation and bastion of criminal activity to the masses, and that rightfully scares them. The greater fools (i.e. the majority of the population) only buy at the top of a speculation. So they won't be buying Bitcoin soon (unless Bitcoin's price has peaked in a massive bubble already, which it hasn't yet).

Agreed. Both of these comments are helpful. Thank you.

You mean this?!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15342915

I have a bitcoin killer with timelock resolution pow mining algo

Yes this was helpful. About the monitor, yes I can afford one if I sell some BTC, but id rather wait till I can get enough fiat. I dont have 25 BTC i wish, I got 2 figures but less than that... I cant afford spending any BTCs. Im on super frugal mode. I think next month I will be able to get a new monitor anyway.

My dream is to somehow get rich from crypto and cash out in another country where I don't get raped heavily by taxes and live a stress free life. Of course im far from that and that just remains a dream.

Also I was about to ask what Fatoshi asked: "how do we us, the 99% of people that don't know how to code, get rich from spotting a good idea that is a success?" Aka how an investor gets rich when investors don't know how to code and just move capital.

What was so cool about bitcoin is, even some NEET that is a HS drop out and doesn't know how to code a helloworld but was able to intuitively see the importance of bitcoin, was free to get in and mine it or buy it when it was worth pennies, then get rich as fuck for this act of spotting a great idea before the rest does.

In your model, from what I can understand, PoW is replaced by "proof of meritocracy", which means if you are not a coder, you are fucked since you can't be a miner.

You described tho that users can do some other things to still get money, but are we taking rich tier money rewards? because that's what you expect if you get involved in a project pretty much since the first day, but it's sounding to me like only the people creating the apps are going to get the big bread.

What does the user do? Fatoshi pointed to "likes", driving traffic to an app, promoting it and whatnot... this all seems too diffuse compared to the simple act of firing up your CPU to mine bitcoins (as you could if you spotted the good idea of bitcoin back in the day, and I know I could have been one of those kids that just finished HS and heard about bitcoin in 2009 and got rich as a mf but I didn't until 2013 so I hate my life since then).

By the time the coin gets listed in an exchange, app creators will be the whales and marketmakers. Investors that don't know how to code may be able to buy a good chunk for cheap there, but the big money is already hodled by app developers just like it was by early bitcoin miners.

Im probably missing something but I just don't see how the early user or the early investor gets to become rich by getting involved early, the app creators looks like are the ones that will get the big payday.


Also: what if someone starts releasing apps that are shit or are basically clones, then spreads it by use of marketing to get a ton of likes, downloads and whatnot (not sure how the "merit" will be measured, but it has to be something measurable like likes, downloads etc, can't think of anything else), and the thing becomes a store of crap just like Google apps where some people get rich from apps that are ridiculous but become viral memes? im not sure where the meritocracy is there, it seems like a race to see who is the best marketer all over again. This could be a way to game the model that I can think off.

Also: Bitnet sounds great to me. I remember Andreas A claiming how the "Bitcoin" name makes no sense since there are no coins because its keys and he suggested something similar. I think Bitcoin is a great name nonetheless and very brandable. I don't think the end user gives a fuck about the fact that there are no actual coins and is juts the ledger and the private-public keys and so on, the end users sees "coins" and that's all that matters, so I think bitcoin is a great name and Andreas since he is too much of a nerd doesn't seem to realize that. But nonetheless Bitnet sounds good. OpenShare also sounds good but reminds me a bit of a download site like "megaupload", "dropbox" and those sites.

Bitnet sounds like "Bitcoin" and everyone is dreaming to get in early on the actual "bitcoin 2.0". So if you can really pull this off, the name is cool. I would get bitnet.org and put the wallet and software and everything there just like bitcoin.org

Also the BITS token is used by coin "Bitstar" so not sure about using that same token.

The name bitnet.cash
from the marketing point of view
sounds better is more catchy although it looks like is only related to digital currency and digital payment system.

As you said you would build the whole ecosystem i mean not only payment system the name opensha.re  suits better
for the purpose

(Open shared reward economy)

so is really difficult choice to make.

bitnet. short, simple and to the point. instantly recognizable.

openshare has nothing to suggest blockchain tech. sounds like an openoffice module.

The thing is in my idea, im doing a framework to deal with blockchain protocol, or build new blockchain easily, to extend easily the protocol, more than doing a monolithic code to handle one blockchain with hardcoded values. The same code/exe can handle different blockchain like multichain. With different config or module for each.

There is not even really any compile time definition of any type at all. All the protocole message template could be put in a json file and loaded at run-time.


https://github.com/iadix/purenode/blob/master/export/iadix.conf

All the code for block & tx validation is modularized, the code to handle key pair and signature, as well as the modules behind the http interface like block explorer and rpc server for web apps.

Different blockchain can be made with only very localized change to the code, and preferably via config file for easier integration with above layer.


If you want to build a block chain engine from scratch , with the feature you want, I dont think you can find better starting point, because ive looked in the same issues than you and didn't find anything that had all the good requirement.

But im being objective here, not specially trying to " sell my stuff because it's my stuff"  

I already have the whole type class like things working with an already fairly debugged framework, with implementation of flexible/modular blockchain engine.

After custom blockchain can be made with other protocol with different modules. And keep common code as much as possible  ( not whole git fork to change 3l ).

All code is very localized with low coupling. Even my gran ma can compile it.





Good night, sleep well 

Are you two guys doing an ICO by yourselves? Are you organized on that? Or are you just in the "figuring it out" stage?

If you make your app available on my blockchain, then you get to earn tokens as if you did a second ICO. You can still do your other ICO for yourself and find some way to pay a dividend based on your revenues from my blockchain in addition to any other blockchains where you run your apps. But you don't need to make your own blockchain (and it surely won't be as good as mine and thus won't have as much economies-of-scale adoption, if my plans proceed as I hope they will). Diversify your options. Maximum division-of-labor says you should not try to make your own blockchain. That is a fundamental rule from economics that for maximum results, each expert should focus in their area of expertise.

But you might decide not to do an ICO initially and just build your app for my blockchain and keep all the future revenue for yourselves. If my blockchain ends up widely successful in adoption, you will earn a lot for yourselves by not sharing your revenue with another ICO. But we can't predict the future.

Edit: I see your 3rd msg. You said you may like an ICO to get some pre-funding and share risk with the speculators. That is okay for me. You decide that. Doesn't affect me. You can sell your tokens from my blockchain (1% per week) to pay dividend to your ICO holders. Or you can distribute tokens directly to them as a dividend, which is better.

I'm very sleepy. Will be back after sleeping...

I know you are not fond of ico, and I can understand why, but we have been thinking the pb in many ways, ICO are good model of funding, we can have some contact in the public funding things , or private investor, but it's clear to fund good independant project with open source based on blockchain it's still the best.

But I know what you mean too with the craze and the number of scam and all

Well can always try, if it works and can get good funding, it can already solve a lot of pb to quickly kick start commercial projects.

But the ico blockchain will not be the only focus of developpement, just maintaining it and integrating new functions in it when it make sense for this coin.

All what im talking about is already made and working and available on the git, with some bit of documentation on the site.

In the plan we will probably be dealing with many different blockchain, either the one of existing crypto coins, our own app blockchain, or other blockchain created with our framework, or integrated in the framework with specific modules.

We are not really a company for the moment, my friend is musician

I dont think we have hard line with cooperation, idk what you have in mind ?

I already have most of the protocole implemented with the block explorer and html5 raytracing demo on the site

The only thing it really miss it the memory pool and good debuging / testing on the p2p network, with profiling , and why not adding Zlib comp, and also having all op code of bitcore script engine implemented, but I have already the basics, most of the op code dont seem to long to implement.

Is your team is creating their own blockchain?

Is your team/company potentially interested in making an app for my blockchain?

Be frank. No worries. I will keep moving forward regardless who is on board or not on board.

Given ICOs, no one wants to work for real adoption any more. Everyone wants to cash out with some hype and BS. Its all speculation and no real world accomplishment. I am here to do real world work.

There will be a work that n00b users can do. The distribution is designed to onboard everyone. No Child Left Behind, lol.

Don't worry, they won't be able to easily dump this tokens on the market and depress the price. We'll have a 100 week lockup on tokens making them non-fungible, but they can be spent to app devs, yet remain locked up. 1% per week can be taken out as a fungible token. Everything is designed to make everyone think medium-term. No quick cash outs except for speculators have no limitations. The float will be extremely tight plus we will have the interest rate mechanism from Byteball to incentivize hodling but we will do it correctly (Byteball's is broken design).


If they are genuinely using the apps and thus driving advertising and other revenue plus viral sticky usership growth, then that is exactly what we want.

The app devs need to read up on gamification and we'll be working with them to help develop good monetization models. But the add developers are going to be taking the "in game" tokens that we give to the users for the work they do. It bootstraps an economy.

The onboarding is going to be as objective as we can make it. And it will involve data on the blockchain so it can be cross-verified by the public.


Agreed a mix. I will detail later, because I really don't want to give away all the designs until it is ready for launch.

What I need more feedback on now are the name choice, the types of apps, and helping motivate app developers.

We need a community. But what I need most right now are interaction with programmers. Yet all community interaction and ideas are welcome.

If no programmer want to help and earn tokens, then I guess I am going to be doing a lot of programming myself.

I am trying to select a forum and Q&A s/w now and get it setup.

I am hoping @ladixDev is serious because sounds like he might be a capable dev. Haven't looked at his code yet. He has a damn good taste in music (for targeting the Millennials). I hope I can do a music app with him. I really love music and we can monetize it because of our unique onboarding. I have many ideas. I am an idea machine.

A couple other devs have stopped by and I hope they didn't get discouraged. I prioritize who seems capable and motivated.

If we can execute the plans, we have a very good chance of being the next big thing in blockchains because of the concepts and designs I've worked on for 4 years in this space. And the talented devs that will be drawn to these designs once they are convinced of the importance. So devs who get in on the ground floor have the real chance of becoming multi-millionaires. My job is to get the blockchain done. I love to code apps and I am good at that, but i can't do everything. We need to get this launched asap.

Ideally I would have some help on the blockchain. Someone like Eric Raymond (IQ 160) would be fabulous, but we need funds for that. We don't need any funds for me, I have 10 BTC and I am living in the Philippines. We'll have some funds after launch when I can sell some of my tokens on the after markets to raise funds for hiring devs.

I have a gf who has 1000s of friends on Facebook (including many foreigners). Her friends have 1000s of friends. Etc.. This is the way you get something viral going. @ladixDev has many friends, etc.. We have to build a community that is excited about the project and believes it can change the world. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't think it couldn't really accomplish something in the real adoption markets.

We need testnets, example apps, etc.. Talk is cheap. When people can see and touch something real, they get excited.


Note I made an edit on the prior page:

Hello

For the moment the team is preparing the ICO, and it's not really in my hands for the moment, so i have bit of free time

For the development part, anyway for the moment i'm more focused on development distributed applications, with the modular system it can handle any blockchain protocol and connect to any blockchain, so i'm not so so concerned about one coin in particular, i think if bitcoin can gain good reputation it can be better for the world of crypto currency as a whole, so i can only wish all coins gain maximum of trust and value

The next thing i might be getting into though could be the script system, but it would be something very simple in my mind more something like a BASIC with mostly built functions that are call to module methods, the only thing it would really need is a way to declare json variable, and call to module function with these variable, with fixed function prototype like with javascript event handler with a single json object tree as parameter.

For the moment i have a system to add sur typing to json object like this


you can see the definition of the built in type there

https://github.com/iadix/purenode/blob/master/libbase/include/tree.h

so it look like

{ ("key_name", TYPE) : value }

instead of just

{ "key_name" : value }

To add a surtyping to the key, it is useful for serialization, but it can also be used for OO like programming if certain module or function need to react to a specific type of object.

The script language doesn't even need a module definition, as they are module export, the framework can already load up the function address from the module and function name. And it's already cross compiler with a resolution of function name based on the declared decoration specific to the compiler used to compile it. Like this a module compiled with visual studio can import symbol from a module compîled with gcc , or vice versa, with unified function export name.

So the runtime can detect if the method exist or not, or could make script that can parse module exported function list, so for the moment the script language can remain very simple i think. Most function of looping and list processing can be handled by the framework in modules.

The only thing it would really need some good thinking on, is a system to easily generate html5/js template for most application, to make the development of distributed html5 application easy, and i see there are some discussion about this on your git, if you have idea that can be easily implemented, i'm all hear

As for collaboration, normally there is no special licensing on the the code or anything for the moment, it doesn't use any GPL code, with the modular design, it's made in sort that several person can develop their own module for their own app and only share the code in common.

I made it this the very beginning to have very low debugging time, as it's a system i developed for micro kernel operating system, it has to have zero exception/seg fault in the code, that was first very important requirement, even dealing with interupts, preemptive multi tasking, and high level application, with zero memory leak, the code had to be made in sort to avoid any low level fault, because they are very hard to debug in this kind of environment.

With this system of dynamic typing, all the information can be available at runtime, for debugging, even in very low layer of the code, it can still acess all the data structure of drivers, library and application, even from a bare metal exception, so it helps a lot with debugging as well with the modular design it's more easy to know where the code goes wrong and having debugging output.

So it's all made to make safe application quickly normally, and already can handle lot of the http/rpc/json protocol as well for audio streaming and html5 applications, for the moment the audio system is still based on centralization for certain things, because for cthe moment i don't see easy way to design perfectly decentralized design that can keep everything secure for all parts involved in music distribution, not that it's impossible, but to come up with something really useable in large scale, it cannot be done without funding.

For the nash thing, yeah as you say anything it's something that is just supposed to emerge by itself from the collective, the only reason why it's not supposed to be already there is because there are some anti ideal force at play or some lack of development in certain area of financial infrastructure, which is think blockchain can partially solve, i guess blockchain as world wide distributed decentralized system can be a good medium to test nash theories, but there is not anything special to do in the blockchain to make it happen normally =)


For blockchain themselve, i would be really in favor of adding some kind of identity metadata associated with addresses group, to have more possibility for trusted peer exchange, or even some kind of private cache of mempool shared between trusted entities, and some possibility to black list certain address on the network level, or to give possibly certain restriction that could be added by the protocol, or some warning about certain address or node that the user could bypass or not, i'm not sure i'm ideally all for 100% annonimity/ fungibility and i think the network also can have room for also private network, possible with an application layer above the blockchain protocol with other type of data than transactions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHzeP0WeKIA

I like the idea of rewarding 'work' but I wonder if average non tech guys like myself could be excluded and then you are back to the whole rewarding technically able like POW does but on steroids.

I wonder what 'work' a 'user' could do beyond sharing a photo or mindlessly clicking on likes etc. 


I'm personally a big fan of airdrops to spread a coin at least in part, in my opinion the best distribution will deploy a mixture of methods.