Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. - page 151.

deisik

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Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 06:35:22 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 06:33:04 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 06:24:15 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 06:19:47 AM

So you are essentially saying that they were taking short-term credits (aren't they what sanctions prohibit before all?) to pay their debts? And for how many years, lol?

Also, what the heck do you quote here the price of West Texas Intermediate oil brand? To give your words more weight?

It means they had a debt which they planned of rolling with new credit. That way out is cut.Now they will rape the pension fund.

And second was because that's the price of oil. There are only two in the oil world that matter Brent and WTI , one is at 97 the other at 92.
20$ below the what rosneft predictions were. Expect a second rape of the pension fund.

You are so pathetic. Now, according to you, they had a debt which they refinanced so many times in the past, right? Do you understand that all these times the burden of debt was on the West, and Rosneft was able to work entirely on credit?

If you start with this kind of name calling i think that any discussion is useless.
Happy retirement in russia. Photo is worth 1$ , (soon around 200 billions rubles).

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-08-18/russia-seized-citizens-pension-funds-dot-could-that-happen-in-the-u-dot-s-dot

It is useless, that I agree with. You'd better go learn some basic economics (with blahblahblah, for that matter)...

RoadTrain

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Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 06:30:56 AM

So why they are doing this?

Quote

Sanctions-hit oil company Rosneft will be able to apply for money from a state wealth fund, Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich said Tuesday, adding that the government had "on the whole" approved the company's investment program.

Rosneft's access to Western money has been restricted by the sanctions imposed in response to Moscow's role in the Ukrainian conflict. Rosneft has asked the government for $42 billion support from a fund earmarked for Russian pensions to help it weather the sanctions.

Oh , wait your link contains what rosneft claims to have....

Because they can? Wink

They're taking advantage of the opportunity it seems.
Still I wouldn't take for granted that they get that much.

Also don't think that they simply 'get' the fund's money for free. The wealth fund will either buy their newly issued bonds or their newly issued shares.

niothor

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Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 06:33:04 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 06:24:15 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 06:19:47 AM

So you are essentially saying that they were taking short-term credits (aren't they what sanctions prohibit before all?) to pay their debts? And for how many years, lol?

Also, what the heck do you quote here the price of West Texas Intermediate oil brand? To give your words more weight?

It means they had a debt which they planned of rolling with new credit. That way out is cut.Now they will rape the pension fund.

And second was because that's the price of oil. There are only two in the oil world that matter Brent and WTI , one is at 97 the other at 92.
20$ below the what rosneft predictions were. Expect a second rape of the pension fund.

You are so pathetic. Now, according to you, they had a debt which they refinanced so many times in the past, right? Do you understand that all these times the burden of debt was on the West, and Rosneft was able to work entirely on credit?

If you start with this kind of name calling i think that any discussion is useless.
Happy retirement in russia. Photo is worth 1$ , (soon around 200 billions rubles).

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-08-18/russia-seized-citizens-pension-funds-dot-could-that-happen-in-the-u-dot-s-dot

deisik

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Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 06:24:15 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 06:19:47 AM

So you are essentially saying that they were taking short-term credits (aren't they what sanctions prohibit before all?) to pay their debts? And for how many years, lol?

Also, what the heck do you quote here the price of West Texas Intermediate oil brand? To give your words more weight?

It means they had a debt which they planned of rolling with new credit. That way out is cut.Now they will rape the pension fund.

And second was because that's the price of oil. There are only two in the oil world that matter Brent and WTI , one is at 97 the other at 92.
20$ below the what rosneft predictions were. Expect a second rape of the pension fund.

You are so pathetic. Now, according to you, they had a debt which they refinanced so many times in the past, right? Do you understand that all these times the burden of debt was on the West, and Rosneft was able to work entirely on credit and make decent profits from the borrowed money?

niothor

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Quote from: RoadTrain on September 16, 2014, 06:24:27 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 06:13:48 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 06:09:13 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 05:58:22 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 05:52:48 AM

So you are not going to discuss the growth of the Russian economy since 2008 (early 2009), right? Regarding Rosneft, you seem not to understand that the money it previously got from the West was used to finance its working capital. Do you know what that means?

It means that they are broke.
The price of oil is dropping , russian fields output in siberia is dropping ... everything is going barney rubble.

Lol, you don't understand a thing. In business, financing your working capital by credit (read you spare your money) means that you get enough income that allows you to pay the interest and earn decent profits at that...

You seem to not understand that they can't pay their debts back meaning that their profits were and are below expectation.
Also they need the russian pensions to help them pay their loans.

There is not even a word on the amount of money they need to keep their production afloat since the fields in Siberia are going dry one after the other.

Such bullshit. Rosneft had amassed 684 billion rubles ($20 billion) in cash and deposits by the middle of the year.
That's more than enough to keep paying debts till the second half of 2015 (440 bln roubles in 2014, 626 bln in 2015). And that's even not including continual cash-flow from its operation.

So why they are doing this?

Quote

Sanctions-hit oil company Rosneft will be able to apply for money from a state wealth fund, Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich said Tuesday, adding that the government had "on the whole" approved the company's investment program.

Rosneft's access to Western money has been restricted by the sanctions imposed in response to Moscow's role in the Ukrainian conflict. Rosneft has asked the government for $42 billion support from a fund earmarked for Russian pensions to help it weather the sanctions.

Oh , wait your link contains what rosneft claims to have....

RoadTrain

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Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 06:13:48 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 06:09:13 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 05:58:22 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 05:52:48 AM

So you are not going to discuss the growth of the Russian economy since 2008 (early 2009), right? Regarding Rosneft, you seem not to understand that the money it previously got from the West was used to finance its working capital. Do you know what that means?

It means that they are broke.
The price of oil is dropping , russian fields output in siberia is dropping ... everything is going barney rubble.

Lol, you don't understand a thing. In business, financing your working capital by credit (read you spare your money) means that you get enough income that allows you to pay the interest and earn decent profits at that...

You seem to not understand that they can't pay their debts back meaning that their profits were and are below expectation.
Also they need the russian pensions to help them pay their loans.

There is not even a word on the amount of money they need to keep their production afloat since the fields in Siberia are going dry one after the other.

Such bullshit. Rosneft had amassed 684 billion rubles ($20 billion) in cash and deposits by the middle of the year.
That's more than enough to keep paying debts till the second half of 2015 (440 bln roubles in 2014, 626 bln in 2015). And that's even not including continual cash-flow from its operation.

niothor

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Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 06:19:47 AM

So you are essentially saying that they were taking short-term credits (aren't they what sanctions prohibit before all?) to pay their debts? And for how many years, lol?

Also, what the heck do you quote here the price of West Texas Intermediate oil brand? To give your words more weight?

It means they had a debt which they planned of rolling with new credit. That way out is cut.Now they will rape the pension fund.

And second was because that's the price of oil. There are only two in the oil world that matter Brent and WTI , one is at 97 the other at 92.
20$ below the what rosneft predictions were. Expect a second rape of the pension fund.

deisik

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Activity: 3514

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 06:13:48 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 06:09:13 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 05:58:22 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 05:52:48 AM

So you are not going to discuss the growth of the Russian economy since 2008 (early 2009), right? Regarding Rosneft, you seem not to understand that the money it previously got from the West was used to finance its working capital. Do you know what that means?

It means that they are broke.
The price of oil is dropping , russian fields output in siberia is dropping ... everything is going barney rubble.

Lol, you don't understand a thing. In business, financing your working capital by credit (read you spare your money) means that you get enough income that allows you to pay the interest and earn decent profits at that...

You seem to not understand that they can't pay their debts back meaning that their profits were and are below expectation.
Also they need the russian pensions to help them pay their loans.

There is not even a word on the amount of money they need to keep their production afloat since the fields in Siberia are going dry one after the other.

Also , their business plan was for 116$/barrel. It's below 100 with WTI hitting 92.

So you are essentially saying that they were taking short-term credits (aren't they what sanctions prohibit before all?) to pay off their debts? And for how many years, lol?

Also, what the heck do you quote here the price of West Texas Intermediate oil brand? To give your words more weight?

niothor

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Activity: 826

Merit: 501

in defi we trust

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 06:09:13 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 05:58:22 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 05:52:48 AM

So you are not going to discuss the growth of the Russian economy since 2008 (early 2009), right? Regarding Rosneft, you seem not to understand that the money it previously got from the West was used to finance its working capital. Do you know what that means?

It means that they are broke.
The price of oil is dropping , russian fields output in siberia is dropping ... everything is going barney rubble.

Lol, you don't understand a thing. In business, financing your working capital by credit (read you spare your money) means that you get enough income that allows you to pay the interest and earn decent profits at that...

You seem to not understand that they can't pay their debts back meaning that their profits were and are below expectation.
Also they need the russian pensions to help them pay their loans.

There is not even a word on the amount of money they need to keep their production afloat since the fields in Siberia are going dry one after the other.

Also , their business plan was for 116$/barrel. It's below 100 with WTI hitting 92.

deisik

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Activity: 3514

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English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 05:58:22 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 05:52:48 AM

So you are not going to discuss the growth of the Russian economy since 2008 (early 2009), right? Regarding Rosneft, you seem not to understand that the money it previously got from the West was used to finance its working capital. Do you know what that means?

It means that they are broke.
The price of oil is dropping , russian fields output in siberia is dropping ... everything is going barney rubble.

Lol, you don't understand a thing. In business, financing your working capital by credit (read you spare your own money) means that you get enough income that allows you to pay the interest and earn decent profits at that...

Paya

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Rebels' fierce response to renewed shelling of residential areas in Donetsk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sGuXewxHy4

niothor

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Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 05:52:48 AM

So you are not going to discuss the growth of the Russian economy since 2008 (early 2009), right? Regarding Rosneft, you seem not to understand that the money it previously got from the West was used to finance its working capital. Do you know what that means?

It means that they are broke.
The price of oil is dropping , russian fields output in siberia is dropping ... everything is going barney rubble.

Moscow (AFP) - Russia's economy minister urged Monday an easing of budget rules to allow a bigger deficit to finance investments needed to overcome Western sanctions.

Quote

With a responsible planned increase in the budget deficit we would unleash a new wave of economic stimulus, which is so important in this tense geopolitical situation," Economy Minister Alexei Ulyukayev said.

When the us does that everybody talks about a f** economy when russia is doing the same it's the siberian tiger.

Also , fro mymyomy and his growth..

Quote

Russia's economy has contracted in annual terms for two months in a row, the Economy Ministry said Friday, adding to concerns that Russia may be heading for recession as Western sanctions over Ukraine bite.
In a weekly macroeconomic monitoring report, the ministry estimated that gross domestic product had contracted by 0.2 percent in July compared with a year earlier, following a 0.1 percent fall in June.

deisik

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Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 05:30:50 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 05:19:38 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 04:43:54 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 04:25:38 AM

Let's now talk about a 5 year period. Do you agree with my figures?

Why?
The discussion started with this year.
The fall is because of the sanctions and the weakening economy.

We could start talking about 20 years in the past or 1000 but that wouldn't be about the current situation.

The the picture now is that barney is falling from its dino like a stone.

So, when people compare today economic situation with that of 2008, they are making an error, right? The fall is because of the sanctions, but it was a trigger to currency speculation, not because of the weakening economy. As to you, sanctions were enacted two weeks ago, and they have already weakened the Russian economy?

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-government-considers-saving-rosneft-through-state-fund/507145.html

Sanctions-hit oil company Rosneft will be able to apply for money from a state wealth fund, Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich said Tuesday, adding that the government had "on the whole" approved the company's investment program.

Rosneft's access to Western money has been restricted by the sanctions imposed in response to Moscow's role in the Ukrainian conflict. Rosneft has asked the government for $42 billion support from a fund earmarked for Russian pensions to help it weather the sanctions.

So you are not going to discuss the growth of the Russian economy since 2008 (early 2009), right? Regarding Rosneft, you seem not to understand that the money the company previously got from the West was used to finance its working capital. Do you know what that means?

niothor

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Quote from: myshownow on September 16, 2014, 05:40:38 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 05:19:38 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 04:43:54 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 04:25:38 AM

Let's now talk about a 5 year period. Do you agree with my figures?

Why?
The discussion started with this year.
The fall is because of the sanctions and the weakening economy.

We could start talking about 20 years in the past or 1000 but that wouldn't be about the current situation.

The the picture now is that barney is falling from its dino like a stone.

It's useless arguing with Niothor because he's just slipping his prepared propaganda in his arguments but he's not really interested about truth because it's clear he has an ulterior agenda.He just trapped you in a situation where he'll just repeat his propaganda. The Western style is SHOCKS & MIRRORS- create their own reality through propaganda,and that's the only thing left in their arsenal,because the de-dollarization is accelerating. The basic thrust of their propaganda is to show they have weakened the economy of Russia through their sanctions because they have become the laughing stock already throughout the world, even perrenial bankrupt Argentina was able to defy them & got away by making deals outside the dollar & swapped with China (Nithior's words: The fall is because of the sanctions and the weakening economy. See? how he slipped his propaganda through the dollar isse?)

The important thing is that Russia was not weakened by their sanctions because it grew instead while the EU countries shrunked, with Germany weakening by .02%. NOTE: RUSSIA GREW, and that is the proof of the pudding.

Please quote me the estimate growth for russian economy from pravda at the start of the year and the reality now. Wink

.

myshownow

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Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 05:19:38 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 04:43:54 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 04:25:38 AM

Let's now talk about a 5 year period. Do you agree with my figures?

Why?
The discussion started with this year.
The fall is because of the sanctions and the weakening economy.

We could start talking about 20 years in the past or 1000 but that wouldn't be about the current situation.

The the picture now is that barney is falling from its dino like a stone.

It's useless arguing with Niothor because he's just slipping his prepared propaganda in his arguments but he's not really interested about truth because it's clear he has an ulterior agenda.He just trapped you in a situation where he'll just repeat his propaganda. The Western style is SHOCKS & MIRRORS- create their own reality through propaganda,and that's the only thing left in their arsenal,because the de-dollarization is accelerating. The basic thrust of their propaganda is to show they have weakened the economy of Russia through their sanctions because they have become the laughing stock already throughout the world, even perennially bankrupt Argentina was able to defy them & got away by making deals outside the dollar & swapped with China (Nithior's words: The fall is because of the sanctions and the weakening economy. See? how he slipped his propaganda through the dollar isse?)

The important thing is that Russia was not weakened by their sanctions because it grew instead while the EU countries shrunked, with Germany weakening by .02%. NOTE: RUSSIA GREW, and that is the proof of the pudding.

niothor

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Quote from: myshownow on September 16, 2014, 05:03:49 AM

That Ruble-Dollar rate is not an issue, Russia is finished making contracts in dollar so it's not affected much by the Ruble-Dollar exchange rate.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=CNY&to=RUB&view=1M

Seems like the barney rubble isn't doing far better against the yuan either

niothor

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Activity: 826

Merit: 501

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Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 05:19:38 AM

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 04:43:54 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 04:25:38 AM

Let's now talk about a 5 year period. Do you agree with my figures?

Why?
The discussion started with this year.
The fall is because of the sanctions and the weakening economy.

We could start talking about 20 years in the past or 1000 but that wouldn't be about the current situation.

The the picture now is that barney is falling from its dino like a stone.

So, when people compare today economic situation with that of 2008, they are making an error, right? The fall is because of the sanctions, but it was a trigger to currency speculation, not because of the weakening economy. As to you, sanctions were enacted two weeks ago, and they have already weakened the Russian economy?

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-government-considers-saving-rosneft-through-state-fund/507145.html

Sanctions-hit oil company Rosneft will be able to apply for money from a state wealth fund, Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich said Tuesday, adding that the government had "on the whole" approved the company's investment program.

Rosneft's access to Western money has been restricted by the sanctions imposed in response to Moscow's role in the Ukrainian conflict. Rosneft has asked the government for $42 billion support from a fund earmarked for Russian pensions to help it weather the sanctions.

Wink

Paya

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Activity: 334

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Ukrainian criminals resume artillery attacks on civilian population in Donetsk (warning-graphic). Do they really expect that it's going to be possible to live together after all these massacres?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmkAR5OWSJc

deisik

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Activity: 3514

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: niothor on September 16, 2014, 04:43:54 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 16, 2014, 04:25:38 AM

Let's now talk about a 5 year period. Do you agree with my figures?

Why?
The discussion started with this year.
The fall is because of the sanctions and the weakening economy.

We could start talking about 20 years in the past or 1000 but that wouldn't be about the current situation.

The the picture now is that barney is falling from its dino like a stone.

So, when people compare today economic situation with that of 2008, they are making an error, right? The fall is because of the sanctions, but it was a trigger to currency speculation, not because of the weakening economy. As to you, sanctions were enacted two weeks ago, and they have already weakened the Russian economy?

myshownow

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Activity: 238

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That Ruble-Dollar rate is not an issue, Russia is finished making contracts in dollar so it's not affected much by the Ruble-Dollar exchange rate. THat is the only part of Russia's economy that could be manipulated by the former hegemon but it doesn't affect the income of Russia because it is already getting out of the dollar system. If you noticed, the Ukrainian economy is imploding but the Hyrvnia-dolar rate is artificialy manipulated by the same Western banksters but it doesn't mean the Ukrainian economy is not collapsing because it is imploding (or Pososhenko would not have been forced to surrender). Meaning, the Dollar exchange rate is the last propaganda tool of the bankrupt Western financiers BUT IT DOESN'T REFLECT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE REAL ECONOMY. The Ruble-Dollar rate has been fluctuating since the start of the sanctions but look what happened- Russia grew by 0.8% while those sanctioning it are on the cusp of triple-dip recession, with Germany, the strongest EU ecoinomy, contractingh by 0.2%.

The Dollar exchange rate is the last propaganda tool of a collapsing dollar system because most of the world are getting out. I repost my earlier post:

Well, we call it a de-dollarized world... that's the world feared by the US because a world not using the dollar means all the dollars it printed to pretend rich have nowhere else to go but return to the US... What will it do with the tidal wave of unwanted dollars when it is already drowning with $220 trilion of debts?

Just watch... the World Without Dollars SHOW is just starting...

Starring Russia & China as leading men, the BRICS, Iran, etc. as second leads, and the villains are the "banksters and their puppets" that have occupied the US for the past century...

Highlights: Watch the villains panic as their dollars are refused by the world and their Ponzi crumbles. Will they go to war to save themselves from embarrassment? Or they will just point nail guns to their heads?

In some secret documents, only 33% of the world are just using the dollars in their transactions... Of course, officially it's higher in propaganda press, but we should learn to be cavalier with official data in these times of imploding economies (after all, the official debt of the US is $17 trillion but , voila- a Princeton U study revealed it turned out to be $220 trillion.. and what do you know, they suppressed the publication of that document... (but still leaked, of course).

Here's an assignment to the troll/agents: make a research on what the US will do when the petrodollar is refused by the world. After all, Russia just announced that its present and future contracts are not in dollar and it is the biggest energy power in the world. The Chinese are actively promoting de-dollarization and mind you, they are the biggest trading nation in the world. Yuan is aggressively courted by even Western financial centers like Frankfurt, LOndon, etc. (BTW, the capital of the Anglo-Zionist empire, the UK just announced the issuance of yuan-denominated bond so even within the empire, there is already a crack, some have realized the sign of the times. Research on the meaning of that). Then research on various swaps without the dollar that is going on around the world. Research on the meaning of the BRICS bank. Many more. The show just began but it is now getting anticlimactic.

But it's clear, many countries have decided they can make do without the dollar... and the bandwagon is speeding..

That's why the villains are in a panic... that's why you hear talks on WW3... The last two times they were in a panic, there were WW1 & WW2... but fortunately, there are nuclear weapons now so they might get killed too from the radiation fall-out & can't restart their Ponzi ever!

Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. - page 151. (Read 734725 times)