Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. - page 203. (Read 734937 times)

Do many Russians play the drums?

Russian soldiers so stupid they can't navigate, RU gov so stupid they can't explain RT so stupid they report. p 

Don't you have anything useful to say?

The link you provided does not negate the modified quote, nor what I said originally.

By the way, have you considered that ants or some other common species of insect might originate from Mars? However, unlike that speculation, there is plenty of positive evidence of Russian interference in Ukraine.


Military trucks disguised as food aid, and arrogant claims that Russia has the right to forcefully send them against Ukraine's wishes. They were likely a red herring, forcing the Ukrainian army to follow them around, indirectly assisting the LNR/DNR rebels, and diverting attention from:

The Malaysian Airline, shot down near the Russian border, most likely by either the "anti-fascists" using ground-to-air rockets provided by Russia, or by the Russian air-force violating Ukrainian air space.

talk about nazis.. this woman was crossing a roadblock with ukrainian flag in her car

words on paper: "they are killing our children. karatels'(punishers') agent."

EDIT: allegations against her are that she was a spotter for artillery fire. but yeah, we all know that *surely* nobody has been unfairly accused of something in DNR. especially when carrying ukrainian flag.

http://i.imgur.com/ZW82m33.jpg

http://slon.ru/fast/russia/opublikovany-fotografii-s-mesta-pokhoron-pskovskikh-desantnikov-1147803.xhtml

Russia, Pskov. Fresh graves of russian VDV soldiers. Government does not disclose even to families where did those guys die.

Maybe the fog will clear and russians will realize what kind of shit putin had dragged them into. I still have hopes.

EDIT: and here's russian journalist writeup about DNR from inside http://znak.com/moscow/articles/25-08-19-49/102823 pretty interesting read

Right, just use universal answer for any message. Time is money, no need to spend any time for argumentation.

It is all Putin's propaganda and you know it. If don' t.. sorry, you believe in lies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Frankly, the outcome all depends on Putin, he has all the cards. As it is, Ukraine is economically, politically, socially imploding. It actually has become a surreal joke- Porky saying in his speech in his obviously trying-hard parade that he'll prepare billions for the Ukraine military.Where would he get those billions when his economic minister just quit because of the desperate conditions in his sinking ship. Porky  should have been astute enough to see that the bankrupt Western countries have become laughing stock around the world in this drama-they had the comic pretension to  intimidate with sanctions but it only hit them back at the face. And voila, they are the ones reeling now!! They just confirmed they are all has-beens!!  The major EU countries are now  in the cusp again of recession (including its main economic power, GErmany which contracted in the last quarter) while the country they were trying to make a sample of how powerful they were was the one unaffected by it all. Meanwhile, the bankrupt US is accelerating in its decline. An alternative financial system has been started by the world's now largest economy, China, & the world's most powerful energy & military power, Russia, which will ensure the source of its power, dollar, will collapse soon. At least, the Ukraine tragicomedy will be remembered as the catalyst for the fall of the Anglo-American empire. Good for the world. We can live in peace.

The imploding Ukraine can't really expect any sufficient help from its bankrupt masters. That makes it really funny: what it thought were saviors were bankrupt and were actually intent on pillaging her like they did in other unfortunate countries whose gold & imploding assets were forcibly privatized (Libya, Iraq, etc).

I don't think the EU will be stampeded by any other false flag operation now like they did with the MH17, which was obviously staged by the CIA to force its EU slaves to issue sanction. The EU are so leveraged by high debts & anemic economies they haven't really gotten out of the 2008 debacle so minor shakes like the Russian counter sanction staggered them. The desperate US will still try to force them with more false flags but it's obvious they will balk. The case of the  humanitarian trucks clearly should that. I actually think Putin can do anything he wants now but the EU will be practical. The former dominant power, the US, will obviously become insane now as it loses its primacy but its clearly on the way out.

Meanwhile Winter is near.

Either there will be a federalization of Ukraine or there will be an independent Novorossiya & Transcarpathia.

Good luck to the Novorussians!! I've always supported them because I understood their plight. They only had to cross the borderto Russia  & the salary is 10x, the highways are well-paved, the cities are modern, etc. It was their misfortune that they were left behind with the  poor Ukrainians. Now they will soon be the masters if their fate.

The Muslim volunteer battalion of the Ukrainian Army ("Krym") announces that they are trapped in the city of Ilovaisk. The information is sourced from their own official FaceBook page:

https://www.facebook.com/sotnja.krym?hc_location=timeline

The rebels have completely encircled the Ukrainian units in Ilovaisk, and the terrain is very much flat without much cover. 

I'm not sure the guys arguing with you even believe themselves; they sound like paid trolls.  Either that, or ideologues.  In either case they will not be swayed by facts or reason.

You know not what you speak.

I have watched things unfold since february.

Back in May and June, the rebels were hopelessly outnumbered and were thought to be easily defeated in weeks.

Now, they are a serious battle hardened force that is winning the majority of their engagements. The junta have suffered heavy defeats and although they still possess numerical superiority in terms of troops, armor, and air force, it is no where near as uneven as it was a few months ago.

Unless the Ukraine government pulls a stunning reversal and defeats the rebels, or if NATO intervenes,  then the rebels will "win" and the result is that you will have a split in half Ukraine, or something like that depending on whether or not the rebels decide to advance on Kiev.

@ Balthazar "Controlled mass-media: Not even close to truth. The most of federal TV channels are private owned, except for 1st channel, 51% of which is owned by state. Despite ITAR-TASS news agency is 100% state-owned there are also some 100% private-owned new agencies such as Interfax. In the Ukraine almost all media outlets are owned directly by government officials. 100% of 5th channel is owned by Poroshenko, 100% of ATN and 1+1 TV channels are owned by Ihor Kolomoyski, etc"


 Controlled Mass Media
There is no freedom of the press in Russia ( http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2013/russia ) . None, Not one report from inside the country can be trusted. Every country-wide channels is tightly controlled by the government. Of course, that includes Russia Today, which receives $300 million dollars from the Russian government every year. ( http://en.gazeta.ru/news/2012/10/29/a_4828917.shtml )
    By far the biggest TV channel in Russia is the state controlled “Channel One,” famous for its news anchor Dmitry Kiselyov who, among other things, said that the Kremlin can turn the US into nuclear dust any time it likes ( http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russian-tv-anchor-dmitry-kiselyov-kremlin-can-turn-us-into-radioactive-dust-1440660 ), and suggested the hearts of gays should be burned. (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/12/russia-tv-host-gay-rights_n_3744301.html )  Having listened to him, rather than being horrified, Putin was so impressed he personally appointed him the head of Russia Today. How about that? ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/09/putin-appoints-homophobic-presenter-kiselyov-head-news-agency-homosexuals )
    On the other hand, and even though Yanukovych tried to control it before he was ousted. Ukraine, has a relatively free press. (http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2013/ukraine)  So much so, for the last 10 years Russian journalists systematically fled to Ukraine because they were forbidden to do their job in Russia. ( http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/weekinreview/24levy.html?_r=0 )
    Not just forbidden, unsafe. Journalists are killed and assaulted in Russia every year. 49 have been killed since Putin first came to hold power in 2001, all of them assassinated for political reasons. ( http://www.journalists-in-russia.org/ )
    No journalists were killed in Ukraine between 2001 and 2014 ( http://cpj.org/killed/europe/ukraine/ ). Not until the Russian invasion.  Since then, several journalists were killed by Russian militants in Donbass. ( http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/04/28/ukraine-end-politically-motivated-abuses )
    Despite the iron fist on mainstream media, internet in Russia was relatively free. Until recently, that is, when Putin decided to annex Crimea. Since then opposition blogs have been routinely blacklisted ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/14/russia-bans-alexei-navalny-blog-opposition-news-websites ), online news outlets censored ( http://themoscownews.com/russia/20140314/192608827/Russian-radio-site-blocks-opposition-leader-Navalnys-blog-.html ), and the biggest and most successful independent online newspaper saw its entire staff laid off by the pro-Kremlin oligarch ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/12/editor-russian-news-site-replaced-lenta ). Twitter too is being censored ( http://www.fastcompany.com/3033694/most-innovative-companies/twitter-censors-an-account-for-the-russian-government ), and Wikipedia ( http://rbth.com/news/2013/04/05/russian_media_regulator_confirms_wikipedia_blacklisted_24706.html )
    Further, Putin blocked the sites of opponents, outlawed anonymous blogging, and ordered all bloggers to 'register' with the mass media regulator, i.e., the Kremlin censor. ( http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28583669 )
    Nothing like this exists in Ukraine.

Mariupol was occupied by "battalions" since the end of spring... This could be some kind of trap, because it seems too easy.

If all goes well, Mariupol may be liberated in the next 48 hours: oligarch batallions are in complete disarray and retreat along the whole southern frontline giving only sporadic resistance. On the other side, Kiev has just launched several attacks north and north-east of Donetsk and this can create a problem for rebels because their best units are being engaged elsewhere.

Repeat the propaganda 1000 times and it becomes true?

Russia violates Ukraine's borders only a tiny little bit more each day. Finally, there are Russian tanks and troops, but no-one notices because it's only 0.01% worse than the previous day.


Similarly, if the percentage of people who believe that "Ukraine will disintegrate" grows by just 1% each day, eventually the percentage is so overwhelming that the lies become true, simply because they've all lost hope of working together and co-operating peacefully to build a better country.

Whatever happens, Ukraine will no longer be a singular country once this is over.

And I suppose it was just fake (neo)nazis doing a fake Nazi parade in Donetsk? Maybe the prisoners were all just part of a Hollywood movie set, funded by Western oligarchs to make the DNR/LNR anti-fascists look bad?

I have little doubt that Western media may have also blown it out of proportion. In reality it might have been a very tiny parade (only about 30-40 prisoners?) in some isolated village... But seriously, how stupid and primitive can they be? They even had some middle-aged people aged 40-60 with grey hair attending, who should have known better. Russian youths with smart-phones were happy to upload lots of incriminating footage all over the Internet.

The Russians (or at least the Donbass separatists) seemed to have a fundamental failure on so many levels. A complete moral failure. How can anyone believe a word that they say if they claim that Ukrainian soldiers are committing war crimes?


I suspect that your "guess" has been strongly suggested by state-controlled Russian media, which wanted you to guess that there will soon be more violence in Kiev.

Cult of personality: Well, maybe a kind of.

Single-party system: Not even close to truth.

Identification of enemies as a Unifiying Cause: Half-truth here, it's correct for ukraine too.

Militarism: Not even close to truth, there were no "anti-terrorist operation" or illegal mobilization. By the way, our president and government officials don't pose in camouflage, as Poroshenko and Turchinov like to do. If you're speaking about Crimea then remember that Sevastopol was annexed by Ukraine in 1993 without any referendum.

Controlled mass-media: Not even close to truth. The most of federal TV channels are private owned, except for 1st channel, 51% of which is owned by state. Despite ITAR-TASS news agency is 100% state-owned there are also some 100% private-owned new agencies such as Interfax. In the Ukraine almost all media outlets are owned directly by government officials. 100% of 5th channel is owned by Poroshenko, 100% of ATN and 1+1 TV channels are owned by Ihor Kolomoyski, etc.

Obsession with National Security: Half-Truth here. Ukrainian Security Service see russian spy or GRU agent in any person, even in your cat.

Disdain of Intellectualsnand Arts: WTF?

Religion and government are interwened: Not even close to truth. For examples you need to know that Russian Orthodox Church doesn't recognize independence of South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Republic of Crimea. They consider them as parts of Georgia and Ukraine respectively.

Fraudulent Elections: Not even funny to compare.

So the final results are:

Exact match: 1 (11.11%)
Half-Truth: 2 (22.22%)
Not even close to truth: 4 (44.44%)
Unclassified: 2

You know what does it mean.

More fake evidence from Pagan's fake news sources.

In other news, Porky has dissolved the Parliament in Ukraine. New elections are to be held October 26th.

This is all happening amidst new violence in Kiev...

My guess, might see another coup.