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Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. - page 237. (Read 734937 times)

full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
1.you see, it depends what you consider to be wealth.
2.if in terms of credit and financial stability its merely due to the fact that the west have been running this debt ponzi scheme the longest, therefore have the upper hand no matter how much the developing countries try to catch up.
3.if we define "rich" as in terms of furtile land, natural resources, ecology, access to fresh water, non gmo agricultural infrostructure; then i would suggest that europe is particulary poor within most of those areas.

1.Sure, if you consider wealth as the banana production Uganda is a rich country  Roll Eyes It's a socialist bias to torture words...
2.If west can have debt is because it's the most competitive part of the world, but you don't understand the importance of competitiveness in economy.
3.We still the richest by this criteria, it's china that become poor.

You seem not understand that wealth is the quantity of useful capital (not wind turbine or railway...) accumulated and wealth production is the sum of added value produced by the economy. It's not a question of monetary system, if tomorrow dollar collapse and we use bitcoin the capital and wealth production of every country stay the same, it's just the unity that change.



LOL, you're at it again. At least, finally you've done away with your pretension of bad English (see, I was correct, wasn't I? lol). As a result, your small mind has become more obvious, you can no longer hide your ignorance by pretending bad grammar, but then, you still have the gall to insist on  having the last word no matter if it reeks of your ignorance. You are at least a good soldier of the masters of the Dark Forces, LOL, you are faithful to your mision order: 1) be THE arbiter at all cost, pretend you are above everybody & discredit them  so you can blunt their propaganda going against the glory of the Dark Forces, 2) USE LABELS to put down the enemy, AS TYPICAL of the politics of political correctness of the dark forces in the last days of the bankrupt WEstern comedy. That politics of political correctness (where they determine who is politically correct- "either you are with us or against us") has become a fascistic tool for control. Therefore, you regularly throw labels to your opponents thinking they will be damaged but fortunately, that gimmick has become passe. Can somebody be damaged if you label him stupid, socialist or even "Russian" if the assertion came from somebody with no credibility & obviously just a pawn like you? Look at the WEstern propaganda press, nobody takes it sriously anymore after its many lies (the lie of the weapon of mass destruction in Iraq & the lie of the poison gas in Syria, for example), everybody now knows they are mercenaries too (like you?). You tried to dismiss me before as Russian without even knowing me, as if being French is more respectable now than being Russian. THe Russians have become very hot lately, I became a fan just like my friends worldwide; the German Finance Minister said that the "tremendous" American soft power was not enough to turn German opinion against the Russians  (though I'm not even Russian, I may even be more Western than you, our only diffrence is I just have the brains to see the WEst is tottering & I have lost the interest to vouch for its respectability  after all its much-published hypocrisy. It has become banal, a failure.

Speaking of wealth, let me marvel about how wealthy & competitive a country with $60 trillion debt (all the while its records showed it only had $17 trillion debt- clearly a case of manipulating data- why? isn't the modern WEstern economy based on - TRUST), with an economy 70% relying on consumption from a populace with 20% families with no employment, 47 million on welfare,  major retail outlets closing by the thousands because nobody besides the 1% is  buying, its biggest state Callifornia is fighting bankruptcy (most of its cities have become bankrupt),many cities nationwide including the second biggest is fighting bankruptcy, etc. (too many other povert stories to write here). THe curious thing is that even against that dire mass poverty canvass, its propaganda press was praising its recovery (it turned out it shrunk 2.9%, lol). Enough of lousy comedy.THe world needs credibility, next act please.

Manipulated data is not wealth. Many credible economists call these dire straits as decline. One is not highly competitive when one is on decline. Like Rome, have you heard about the arrogance of Rome?  That invalidates all your points.


sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
hologram. sorry i cant reason with you any further.

What do you do in bitcoin if you don't understand free market economy ?
legendary
Activity: 1202
Merit: 1015
hologram. sorry i cant reason with you any further.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
1.you see, it depends what you consider to be wealth.
2.if in terms of credit and financial stability its merely due to the fact that the west have been running this debt ponzi scheme the longest, therefore have the upper hand no matter how much the developing countries try to catch up.
3.if we define "rich" as in terms of furtile land, natural resources, ecology, access to fresh water, non gmo agricultural infrostructure; then i would suggest that europe is particulary poor within most of those areas.

1.Sure, if you consider wealth as the banana production Uganda is a rich country  Roll Eyes It's a socialist bias to torture words...
2.If west can have debt is because it's the most competitive part of the world, but you don't understand the importance of competitiveness in economy.
3.We still the richest by this criteria, it's china that become poor.

You seem not understand that wealth is the quantity of useful capital (not wind turbine or railway...) accumulated and wealth production is the sum of added value produced by the economy. It's not a question of monetary system, if tomorrow dollar collapse and we use bitcoin the capital and wealth production of every country stay the same, it's just the unity that change.
legendary
Activity: 1202
Merit: 1015
You can hate the west as much as you want it won't change we are the richest part of the world and we don't want your corrupt system. I hope soon people will understand Keynesian economics don't work so we will use bitcoin and print worthless money to pay the debt to the stupid people that trusted our government. We can experience some hard economic crisis we still far away from you and all economic crisis we have you feel it too cause without gas and oil money from us you are a third world country .

game over socialist losers  Grin

you see, it depends what you consider to be wealth. if in terms of credit and financial stability its merely due to the fact that the west have been running this debt ponzi scheme the longest, therefore have the upper hand no matter how much the developing countries try to catch up. if we define "rich" as in terms of furtile land, natural resources, ecology, access to fresh water, non gmo agricultural infrostructure; then i would suggest that europe is particulary poor within most of those areas.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Thank you for the update, Paya. The situation your friend describes resembles very much what happened during the foreign intervention and the civil war between 1917 and 1920. Then Polish units managed to penetrate as fas as outskirts of Moscow. And no single army or military group had definitive control, until the Poles were pushed back to Warsaw, while Petljura bands (the "Bandera" of that time) were finally rounded up.

About the roads being dangerous, it's not only during the night:

The road to Izvarino has become a car cemetery as the Kiev regime snipers shoot at passing drivers:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404424082



A minethrower battery of the resistance managed to destroy an artillery point of the enemy near Metallist:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404429009



A Serbian journalist's article on strong pattern similarities on how US destroyed his homeland, and how it destroys Ukraine, while setting its sights on Russia.
The article is titled: The Second Great Fatherland War has already begun
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404429870



Genocide of the population. The enemy infantry exterminates surviving residents of the villages that were razed to the ground by artillery:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404456953



Wounded Kiev soldiers, who end up in hospitals, get diagnosed with "household wounds" which does not entitle them to any compensation, and moreover may put them in jail for skivvying off from killing people.
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404429009



In Odesaa partisans blew up local local military conscription office:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404461945



Power plant in Slavjansk is in flames - the city is completely without electricity. Heavy shelling continues:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404418040
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404419364



Strelkov: Slavjansk may fall in a week. Ukrainian nazis genocide civilians:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404467072



Partisans started activity in Nikolaev - explosions on the territory of the local nazi cell:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404472283



Ukrainian Ministry of defence prepares to introduce martial law:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404468646



Freedom fighters attacked Ukrainian positions in donetsk airport:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404470637



A bit of fun: Klichko asked not to conduct gayparades until the military operation id over:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404472335



Resistance Nona's strike at a Ukrainian armoured column:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404465100



NATO arming Ukraine with Soviet weapons – Deputy PM Rogozin
http://rt.com/news/170388-rogozin-ukraine-arms-europe/

Quote
NATO’s newest Eastern European members are handing over their Soviet arms stockpiles to the Ukrainian army, Russia’s Deputy PM Dmitry Rogozin says, adding that the alliance is in danger of pouring gasoline on the flames of that country’s civil war.



Freedom fighters of Slavjansk said farewell to their relatives and await the final assault by the enemy, who prepares to remove the city from the surface of the earth.
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404475517



A volunteer from Odessa reports that half of the wheel-chair bound group of invalids who were previously evacuated from Slavjansk and kramatorsk were killed in artillery shelling of village Jasonovitaja (Donetsk region) - a shell hit a house where the invalids were located:
http://rusvesna.su/tmp/270949787



The center of Lugansk is being shelled again:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404477690
Objects destroyed by Ukrainians so far: Oncology clinic, school #7.



Heavy fighting in the direction of Iljichesk-Zkotnoe:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404478178



Ukrainians threaten to shoot Russian helicopters if they spot any. (By this logic, Russia should fire artillery rounds against Ukrainian artillery positions for each shell that strikes Russian land):
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404476703
sr. member
Activity: 334
Merit: 250
If Lugansk falls, then it will be a fatal blow for the rebels.

After speaking with one of my countrymen who went to eastern Ukraine as (humanitarian) volunteer, I understand that it's not like a real war there, with frontlines and stuff. Situation is extremely fluid... chaotic if you like. Basically both rebels and government forces are moving more or less freely, stalking and occasionaly fighting each other. Both sides are holding a number of strongpoints scattered all around but it's not really possible to tell that anyone has a clear control over the territory because those strongpoints aren't connected very well. Roads are dangerous - especially at night. Maps we're seeing are (according to my friend) pointless because whole East belongs to everyone and no one at the same time: armed rebel groups can be found deep in the areas allegedly under Kiev's control while in the same time Ukrainian troops are marching through rebel zones.

So in the case of Lugansk, it's probably be like with Kramatorsk which has "fallen" for several times already only to slide back into the rebel hands afterwards. Perhaps Ukrainian troops will be able to enter Lugansk downtown, then cluelessly drive around for a few days while facing angry locals, and finally go out or barricade themselves into some of the local bases. Rebels return. Rinse and repeat.

Of course, Kiev has means to establish AND keep full control but this requires heavy military presence pretty much everywhere on the East in long term, which requires a lot of troops and certainly isn't cheap.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
Heavy fighting between the Lugansk People's Army and Ukrainian Army near the outskirts of Lugansk city. If Lugansk falls, then it will be a fatal blow for the rebels. Meanwhile a cancer hospital and a school were destroyed yesterday in Ukrainian shelling.

Lugansk (or any other major city, for that matter) can fall only if the rebels lose the will to win... Cool
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Today's chronicles from the fronts and beyond:

Poroshenko's private TV center is evacuated after a bomb threat was called in:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404458217



There was a protest march conducted in Athens against the punitive operations in Donbass:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404457161



Ukrainian reserves vote with their feet - the results of partial mobilisation are not to the new regimes liking. Those results are reposted from the regions, while Kiev keeps silence:
http://rusvesna.su/tmp/692191596


legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1219
Heavy fighting between the Lugansk People's Army and Ukrainian Army near the outskirts of Lugansk city. If Lugansk falls, then it will be a fatal blow for the rebels. Meanwhile a cancer hospital and a school were destroyed yesterday in Ukrainian shelling.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Now back to topic.

Recent Ukraine human rights violations released in 'White Book' report
http://rt.com/politics/170148-russia-ukraine-white-book/

The white book can be downloaded here both in English and in Russian:
http://www.mid.ru/bdomp/ns-dgpch.nsf/03c344d01162d351442579510044415b/38fa8597760acc2144257ccf002beeb8!OpenDocument



News from the fronts:

There is heavy fighting near Nikolaevsk. Motorola (on of the commanders) is alive and continues to lead the battle while surrounded:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404390057



Several 5-storie buildings are destroyed in Nikolaevka with Smerch (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D1%EC%E5%F0%F7_%28%D0%D1%C7%CE%29) heavy artillery fire:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404384181





Anti-war sentiment is growing in Ukraine:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404395166



Several young men, who are identified as Maidan ringleaders are entering the Russian territory in Kaliningrad over Polish border. They claim to be refugees, yet cannot give any reasonable account of their movements. Local politicians and law enforcement are concerned:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404387029
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
Is funny to see how Russian are pathologic paranoiac  Cheesy

I'm senior member cause i follow the bitcoin project from a long time ago. Like many here i'm a free marketer and i think bitcoin will help a lot to fight government interventionism in economy and oppressive financial right denial backed by the socialist ideology.

The main difference between us is that i'm not a big fan of my government and i recognize it often do stupid bad thing. But the few time my government do something good (like oppose to the horrible USSR) i recognize too. You are not like that, you are a caricature of the socialist government sucker who thing he is governed by a "genius"... Wake up guy there is just Russian that still think government are infallible superhuman guided by people interest, even Chinese don't trust it anymore  Cheesy

You can hate the west as much as you want it won't change we are the richest part of the world and we don't want your corrupt system. I hope soon people will understand Keynesian economics don't work so we will use bitcoin and print worthless money to pay the debt to the stupid people that trusted our government. We can experience some hard economic crisis we still far away from you and all economic crisis we have you feel it too cause without gas and oil money from us you are a third world country .

game over socialist losers  Grin
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100



It's amazing I seem to have already smoked out two sleeper moles here...

Not surprising though. This is the prime bitcoin forum & I'm sure dark forces won't leave it to chance, they just had to have a way to shape the discussion (The Human NSA). They were here from the get go that's why they are now senior members. Actually it's easy to spot them: they posture as know-it-all arbiters, shamelessly annotating the flow of info from other members to blunt off any of the propaganda going the other way. But its easy to see through them: while they posture as smart, they come out as smart-aleck. In other words, they can't fake being fake and dumb.

The first one was supposed to be Romanian who was acting as if he's a higher class than everybody else, a revolting apparition because no intelligent person would be duped by anybody pretending  to be classy if he came from a poor, backward & ugly place called Romania. When I twitted him, he actually toned down his high-falluting act & became scarce but suddenly, another character emerged as if on cue, this time he was supposed to be French   &  this comedian promptly took over with the "know-it-all arbiter" act (no longer from the Eastern European poodle countries, a puppetmaster must have thought a French wannabe with contrived bad English & incoherent logic formation will be more credible than a disgusting Romanian social climber) .

Note that in all the forums, that is the usual script of these clowns- be the arbiter to control the flow of info & discredit the other side. Fortunately, the above two were incompetent & disgusting. The "French" actually came out as a mental hobo. He used his contrived awkward English to muddle the fact he doesnt understand what he's saying, hoping that by merely labelling anybody as stupid or socialist will get him by.

Lol, Two down, I wonder who will be  the third one to be sent to take over the baton. The dark forces should send somebody more interesting, just for the entertainment value. As it is, all the mainstream propaganda mafia is tottering into bankruptcy & after the lie of the weapon of mass destruction in Iraq & the lie of the poison gas in Syria, nobody is really buying Western propaganda anymore. It will collapse sooner if the sleeper moles in the forums are  clowns. Lol


sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
LOL, is it a coincidence that your English seems coherent when you try the usual propagandist trick of pretending to act wiser to discredit an otherwise perfectly effective argument? You only babble incoherently when you are trapped by your desperate delusions? You have been expelling so many dumb crap here I thought you were just a case of attention deficit syndrome so I thought it was better not to stoop down to your level. Apparently, you are a far more sinister entity altogether. Oh, I know, there are many sleeper moles planted in forums, especially in finance-related ones like this one . THey should plant those with a passable IQ at least.

Oh, maybe i do something else in my day than read this thread and i have not the patience to write in my best english  Grin And this economic analysis is just false, USA is not first cause of dollar but cause it's one of the most competitive economy. But i can't expect a socialist understand economy  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
The war is being shifter closer to Russian territory:

Several shells exploded on Russian territory, near border control point Novoshahtijsk. 2 buildings were damaged:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404371346



Russian battalions are setting up firing positions 300 meters from the border to defend Russia from a looming invasion:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404346620



The workers of the Russian border control point Gukovo are evacuated due to the approaching battles:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404376076



In the meantime West-Ukrainian fascists are actively conducting a scorched earth operation, destroying the industry of Donbass. 8 rockets hit a factory in Lisichansk:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404346620



And Poroshenko prepares to enter the next stage of the punitive operation, and changes the heads in the military block:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404366882



The fascists continue to suffer losses despite air superiority:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404347420



More people join the resistance as the invasion of theirMotherland intensifies:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404347420



Igor Strelkov warns about a coming wave of several hundreds of thousand refugees as more residential areas suffer heavy bombardment. There are reports of wounded among the freedom fighters. Two volunteers from Moscow who just arrived are reported dead.
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404344518



UPDATE:

Eyewitnesses report artillery shelling of Lugansk center:
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1295530?utm_medium=rss20



Aukrainian authorities and head of punitive battalion Azov try to shift blame for aerial strike against Kondrashovka, saing that it might have been a mistake from the pilot, but there was also "someone else" shooting at the village:
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1295448?utm_medium=rss20



The resistance blew up a bridge near Slavjansk to stop the advancing Ukrainian armoured column, consisting of 4 tanks and 16 APC, in addition to support vehicles:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/07/03/bridge1/
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404379851



The freedom fighter division in Nikolaevka is sufficient to repel the attack, so the town will not be surrendered:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404381718



Freedom fighters created a corridor for the refugee children from Novorossia:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404381235



65000 officially registered refugees are now in Russia, including 20000 children. 16500 people are located in temporary camps:
http://www.bfm.ru/news/263814



‘Thanks, Ukraine Air Force’: Bombarded villagers accuse Kiev of killing civilians
http://rt.com/news/170104-ukraine-lugansk-shelling-airstrike/

Quote
The village of Kondrashovka in eastern Ukraine lies devastated after shelling by Kiev troops which killed seven people. Bodies torn to pieces are strewn across the settlement and those who survived are asking: why did Kiev kill their families?

...

“They killed my mother, and my father is injured. I took him to hospital,” Aleksandr Mironenko told RT’s Marina Finoshina, one of the few journalists to report from the scene.

People are in shock.

Quote
Just next door, Kondrashovka residents are telling a tragic story of their friend, who lost his 5-year-old son.

“He celebrated his son’s fifth birthday yesterday, and today, the boy's leg was cut off – I don’t know if he's alive or not,” said Sergey, a neighbor.

“No, no, he died, said another man.

“He died? Yes. Then he died,” adds Sergey.
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