Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. - page 236. (Read 734937 times)

^^ That's... pretty grim story actually. Lack of support, manpower and weaponry, superior enemy, betrayal... you can tell from here that these men are becoming desperate. Which coincides with some rumors I've been hearing for months - that the majority of ethnic Russians in Donbass, common civilians, aren't very motivated to join or help militia. They wouldn't mind to wake up in an independent Novorossiya or Russia one day --give them referendum and they will vote for it-- but to take arms and fight is not an option. It's okay if someone else does that in their behalf, though.

Kiev's artillery attacked the city of Lugansk in eastern Ukraine on Sunday, witnesses and militia of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Lugansk (LNR) said. Ukrainian forces also attacked the city’s suburbs from the air.

"Ukrainian aviation launched missile strikes at Aleksandrovka, the Lugansk suburb. Ukrainian airplanes are in the skies above Lugansk. A siren is on," the press service of the Donetsk People's Republic wrote on Twitter.

“During these official investigations we will determine if police officers in Slavyansk collaborated with the separatists or remained faithful to the oath to the Ukrainian people,” Yarovoy said, adding that a new police force in the city will be formed. He also said that police officers from other Ukrainian regions have already voiced their wish to come serve in Slavyansk.

According to unconfirmed reports from the ground, many of those police officers, who did not leave the city along with self-defense forces or fled earlier, have already been arrested by Ukrainian forces, as was promised by Interior Minister Arsen Avakov.

...

“Police [loyal to Kiev] arrived in the city. Now police began patrolling the city’s streets, yards. The situation is still difficult. There are clashes with small groups of armed men who remained in the city. There are attempts to stop us. But they are stopped by the [Kiev] forces that are in Slavyansk,” Commander of the National Guard Stepan Poltorak told TPK Ukraine.

But despite that, commander Strelkov believes the National Guard may now engage in punitive actions against those civilians of Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, and Artemovka who decided to stay or could not leave in time – for their suspected role in resisting and defying the Ukrainian authorities.

“As we were expecting, unfortunately... we already have information that they [Kiev's forces] started a bloodbath,” Strelkov said, claiming that a few of his forces confirmed this.

“The National Guard getting revenge for their numerous losses on the locals,” Strelkov said, apologising to those who thought that once self-defense forces leave, all who stayed will be “safe from repressions.”

“No, it will not save them,” Strelkov told LifeNews. “We are being attacked by real fascists, in a true sense of the word, killers, criminals, and marauders.”

After speaking with one of my countrymen who went to eastern Ukraine as (humanitarian) volunteer, I understand that it's not like a real war there, with frontlines and stuff. Situation is extremely fluid... chaotic if you like. Basically both rebels and government forces are moving more or less freely, stalking and occasionaly fighting each other. Both sides are holding a number of strongpoints scattered all around but it's not really possible to tell that anyone has a clear control over the territory because those strongpoints aren't connected very well. Roads are dangerous - especially at night. Maps we're seeing are (according to my friend) pointless because whole East belongs to everyone and no one at the same time: armed rebel groups can be found deep in the areas allegedly under Kiev's control while in the same time Ukrainian troops are marching through rebel zones.

So in the case of Lugansk, it's probably be like with Kramatorsk which has "fallen" for several times already only to slide back into the rebel hands afterwards. Perhaps Ukrainian troops will be able to enter Lugansk downtown, then cluelessly drive around for a few days while facing angry locals, and finally go out or barricade themselves into some of the local bases. Rebels return. Rinse and repeat.

Of course, Kiev has means to establish AND keep full control but this requires heavy military presence pretty much everywhere on the East in long term, which requires a lot of troops and certainly isn't cheap.

   Ukrainian officials said one border guard was killed during a mortar strike
    Villages in the Lugansk region were targeted, engulfing homes in flames
    Scenes resemble the trail of destruction left by Hitler's army 70 years ago
    Buildings were set ablaze by ground and air forces between 1941 and 1943

There, no more guilt for outing you. I will now take a bath...bye!

What the fuck is the "dark force" ? Don't this seem a little paranoiac ?

You are like terrorist minded Muslim, but less fun...

I will not answer the paranoiac part of your post.

Sure debt is a big problem created buy stupid Keynesian policy, but you forget that most part of the world have exactly the same problem, with welfare state, state pension, unemployment...

But you seem don't understand that the most competitive economy will land softer than the less competitive...

http://www.weforum.org/reports/global-competitiveness-report-2013-2014
http://www.heritage.org/index/heatmap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita