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Topic: Downtrend started? - page 6. (Read 9511 times)

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
this statement is false
January 07, 2014, 03:09:19 AM
#69

ok, the four year log chart looks amazingly consistent, but not very useful for day trading or even weekly trading. I gauge the market with fundamental analysis more than technical.

ah! but do the fundamentals change on a weekly basis? and even news events -- how do you quantify their effect on price? for instance, how do you measure whether a particular piece of news has a positive or negative effect on market sentiment? it is not really empirical to use your own reaction for this.

The four year log chart is all I need. if it goes down too much, I buy a little. If it goes up too fast, I sell a little. I only buy with money from previous sell orders and never sell more than the percentage of the price gain. no prediction necessary except an upward price bias.

so you're saying that daytrading fares little better than chance? if so, i can respect that, because it is the opposite conclusion of most who use technical analysis. what i hate most is the naysayers who still try to daytrade based on what? gut feeling? i don't even know. but the price is either a random walk, or it exhibits nonrandom behavior which can be exploited for profit. there is little in-between...

--arepo
legendary
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January 07, 2014, 03:00:35 AM
#68

ok, the four year log chart looks amazingly consistent, but not very useful for day trading or even weekly trading. I gauge the market with fundamental analysis more than technical.

ah! but do the fundamentals change on a weekly basis? and even news events -- how do you quantify their effect on price? for instance, how do you measure whether a particular piece of news has a positive or negative effect on market sentiment? it is not really empirical to use your own reaction for this.

The four year log chart is all I need. if it goes down too much, I buy a little. If it goes up too fast, I sell a little. I only buy with money from previous sell orders and never sell more than the percentage of the price gain. no prediction necessary except an upward price bias.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
January 07, 2014, 02:49:44 AM
#67

I'm talking about the TA tea readers. They remind me of that crazy guy in A Beautiful Mind who saw patterns in random data noise. every movement fits a pattern after the fact, but that's not very useful for predictions.  

well, how do you gauge the market then? not using patterns of any sort, oh no, i'm sure Tongue price history is completely irrelevant right?

Price history is not irrelevant but if you only look at things on an hourly level you are doing things in an insane fashion.

In the past the future of BTC was totally unknown. Danger lurked around every corner and chance events changed the price drastically. That's why looking at things on too small a scale is insane - there is too much chance involved.

But looking at history is in fact important for a different reason. Look at the whole picture, the bubbles coming closer together, the price constantly rising, and what do you get?

It is normal and logical to presume that the next "bubble" has already started. There has never been a level of general confidence in BTC like today - never. Hell, the US government was talking about banning it a year or two ago. BANNING!!! And BTC pulled through. But what is the US government saying now eh? And Wall Street? And e-commerce? etc. etc. etc.

Confidence is taking a quantum leap forward and this is why so many analysts will fail here. They cannot see past their calculations to feel the real market psychology right now, which is just as much based on maths as an argument with my wife is based on maths!!!  Cheesy


You may very well be right. I have often had the same sentiments.

However, two things to note.

First your sentiment maybe over zealous as, even if it is true, there is a lag between bitcoin enthusiasm, innovation, development, fandom and fresh fiat into the exchanges.

Second, if you are right, you will never convince most that do TA, because in my experience, most who do TA on this forum do not feel that the current price of Bitcoin is justified. They have an opinion about what bicoin is really worth and a majority feel it is worth <$1000 today.  So they have no qualms about ignoring factors like you mentioned, because they have already made up their minds that they disagree.

Many of the people that do TA were around when BTC was worth $2 or $20 or $50. The further back someone goes, I find, generally the harder it is for them to justify the current price in their own minds.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
this statement is false
January 07, 2014, 02:47:16 AM
#66

Price history is not irrelevant but if you only look at things on an hourly level you are doing things in an insane fashion.


i know it seems insane, but during tense "decision points" where the market decides whether or not to break a multi-week trendline, a 2-hour breakout can signal a reversal on larger scales. Wink
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
this statement is false
January 07, 2014, 02:45:40 AM
#65

ok, the four year log chart looks amazingly consistent, but not very useful for day trading or even weekly trading. I gauge the market with fundamental analysis more than technical.

ah! but do the fundamentals change on a weekly basis? and even news events -- how do you quantify their effect on price? for instance, how do you measure whether a particular piece of news has a positive or negative effect on market sentiment? it is not really empirical to use your own reaction for this.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
One Token to Move Anything Anywhere
January 07, 2014, 02:42:58 AM
#64

I'm talking about the TA tea readers. They remind me of that crazy guy in A Beautiful Mind who saw patterns in random data noise. every movement fits a pattern after the fact, but that's not very useful for predictions.  

well, how do you gauge the market then? not using patterns of any sort, oh no, i'm sure Tongue price history is completely irrelevant right?

Price history is not irrelevant but if you only look at things on an hourly level you are doing things in an insane fashion.

In the past the future of BTC was totally unknown. Danger lurked around every corner and chance events changed the price drastically. That's why looking at things on too small a scale is insane - there is too much chance involved.

But looking at history is in fact important for a different reason. Look at the whole picture, the bubbles coming closer together, the price constantly rising, and what do you get?

It is normal and logical to presume that the next "bubble" has already started. There has never been a level of general confidence in BTC like today - never. Hell, the US government was talking about banning it a year or two ago. BANNING!!! And BTC pulled through. But what is the US government saying now eh? And Wall Street? And e-commerce? etc. etc. etc.

Confidence is taking a quantum leap forward and this is why so many analysts will fail here. They cannot see past their calculations to feel the real market psychology right now, which is just as much based on maths as an argument with my wife is based on maths!!!  Cheesy
legendary
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January 07, 2014, 02:40:20 AM
#63

I'm talking about the TA tea readers. They remind me of that crazy guy in A Beautiful Mind who saw patterns in random data noise. every movement fits a pattern after the fact, but that's not very useful for predictions.  

well, how do you gauge the market then? not using patterns of any sort, oh no, i'm sure Tongue price history is completely irrelevant right?

ok, the four year log chart looks amazingly consistent, but not very useful for day trading or even weekly trading. I gauge the market with fundamental analysis more than technical.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
January 07, 2014, 02:38:55 AM
#62
My secret indicator says big move starting in the next 5 minutes... let's see.



It's that new law of physics made for bitcoin: "what doesn't go down, must come up".
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
January 07, 2014, 02:36:33 AM
#61
My secret indicator says big move starting in the next 5 minutes... let's see.


sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
this statement is false
January 07, 2014, 02:32:35 AM
#60

I'm talking about the TA tea readers. They remind me of that crazy guy in A Beautiful Mind who saw patterns in random data noise. every movement fits a pattern after the fact, but that's not very useful for predictions.  

well, how do you gauge the market then? not using patterns of any sort, oh no, i'm sure Tongue price history is completely irrelevant right?
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
January 07, 2014, 02:27:32 AM
#59
A big correction certainly lurks ahead, but $78 is just delusional.

Never ever? Never ever ever.

I'm seeing massive negative sentiment. Yeah, I know the graphs are looking scary, but with this much gloom, I'm wondering if it might be overdone a little bit.
What gloom are you referring to? To me it seems the sentiment on the forum is "omg wall street and new commericial adoption. btc straight to the moon gagnam style"

I'm talking about the TA tea readers. They remind me of that crazy guy in A Beautiful Mind who saw patterns in random data noise. every movement fits a pattern after the fact, but that's not very useful for predictions.  
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
One Token to Move Anything Anywhere
January 07, 2014, 02:24:02 AM
#58
A big correction certainly lurks ahead, but $78 is just delusional.

Never ever? Never ever ever.

I'm seeing massive negative sentiment. Yeah, I know the graphs are looking scary, but with this much gloom, I'm wondering if it might be overdone a little bit.
What gloom are you referring to? To me it seems the sentiment on the forum is "omg wall street and new commericial adoption. btc straight to the moon gagnam style"

I wouldn't say that + $20 / +30 per day is gangnam style, but it certainly is very positive, very rewarding, very steady and... very normal according to the  log scale... growth.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
January 07, 2014, 02:20:59 AM
#57
A big correction certainly lurks ahead, but $78 is just delusional.

Never ever? Never ever ever.

I'm seeing massive negative sentiment. Yeah, I know the graphs are looking scary, but with this much gloom, I'm wondering if it might be overdone a little bit.
What gloom are you referring to? To me it seems the sentiment on the forum is "omg wall street and new commericial adoption. btc straight to the moon gagnam style"
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
January 07, 2014, 02:17:04 AM
#56
A big correction certainly lurks ahead, but $78 is just delusional.

Never ever? Never ever ever.

I'm seeing massive negative sentiment. Yeah, I know the graphs are looking scary, but with this much gloom, I'm wondering if it might be overdone a little bit.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
January 07, 2014, 02:06:37 AM
#55
A big correction certainly lurks ahead, but $78 is just delusional.

Never ever? Never ever ever.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
One Token to Move Anything Anywhere
January 07, 2014, 01:34:45 AM
#54
If we compare the china-bubble to the april bubble, we see some similarities:

After the bubble, we trended down for several weeks from 150 USD towards 65 USD! I do not think we will trand down that much this time, but a downtrend will happen I guess.
After the downtrend, we saw slow growth and a lot of merchant interest. That phase will be bullish for bitcoin, triggering a new bubble.

Just judging by the technical analysis I see, and based on the data coming in from sources from China and such, we're definitely in a downtrend that will probably certainly last between 3 months and 18 months and will go at least as low as the last double channel triple shoulder top a few months ago, just following the trend lines from the 2-3 day moving average oscillator.  That means the price will likely go at least to $78, before rebounding to new ATHs in 2018.  There is black swan chance the price will follow the more dramatic downtrend indicated by the exponential channel and we could see prices retest $2.

I'm really looking forward to this, other people's capitulation equals further consolidation for those who do not blind themselves to the unfurling reality. We shall see the true depth of the newly invested's levels of belief as the year(s) roll on.

Giving yourself a few years for a downtrend seems like a sensible analysis to me!  Cheesy
legendary
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January 06, 2014, 11:44:48 PM
#53
What I mean is this is not usual post-rally behavior. First of all, it's the first "bubble" (actually it's a rally because BTC never goes again below it's pre-bubble price) with a double top. It's proportionally much smaller than the 2011 and April rallies, and volatility hasn't dropped much yet. Consolidation should occur in the $700-$800 range, yet it's over %80 of the ATH. Just weird. I was counting on being bored for three months. Now I'm just confused. Maybe it's just the fact that my stash is worth so much more now that makes me nervous. We're talking serious coin on the line now. It's like WSOP final table. play to get in the money or play to win? lock in a fortune or go for multi-generational wealth? I guess that's a good problem to have! ;-)

Why cant you do both? Lock in a small fortune and using poker terms, go for a freeroll for multigenerational wealth. Thats my play if i had as many coin as I think you might have Smiley

I'm still an order or two of magnitude away from doing that. I bought in around $10/BTC, not $0.10/BTC ;-)
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 501
January 06, 2014, 11:27:45 PM
#52
What I mean is this is not usual post-rally behavior. First of all, it's the first "bubble" (actually it's a rally because BTC never goes again below it's pre-bubble price) with a double top. It's proportionally much smaller than the 2011 and April rallies, and volatility hasn't dropped much yet. Consolidation should occur in the $700-$800 range, yet it's over %80 of the ATH. Just weird. I was counting on being bored for three months. Now I'm just confused. Maybe it's just the fact that my stash is worth so much more now that makes me nervous. We're talking serious coin on the line now. It's like WSOP final table. play to get in the money or play to win? lock in a fortune or go for multi-generational wealth? I guess that's a good problem to have! ;-)

Why cant you do both? Lock in a small fortune and using poker terms, go for a freeroll for multigenerational wealth. Thats my play if i had as many coin as I think you might have Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 469
Merit: 250
English Motherfucker do you speak it ?
January 06, 2014, 09:37:34 PM
#51
Talk about retarded making polls with more than Yes or No answers, especially a simple question like this
legendary
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January 06, 2014, 09:21:22 PM
#50
What I mean is this is not usual post-rally behavior. First of all, it's the first "bubble" (actually it's a rally because BTC never goes again below it's pre-bubble price) with a double top. It's proportionally much smaller than the 2011 and April rallies, and volatility hasn't dropped much yet. Consolidation should occur in the $700-$800 range, yet it's over %80 of the ATH. Just weird. I was counting on being bored for three months. Now I'm just confused. Maybe it's just the fact that my stash is worth so much more now that makes me nervous. We're talking serious coin on the line now. It's like WSOP final table. play to get in the money or play to win? lock in a fortune or go for multi-generational wealth? I guess that's a good problem to have! ;-)
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