Topic: Drugs fuck you up, man - page 7. (Read 7067 times)
The vast majority of medical drugs are bad for your health.
Yeah, well, unfortunately....when you go down this road of estimating and validating harmful effects, you wind up exactly where we are now. Except that we'd like to argue that certain drugs have been WRONGLY EVALUATED to have extremely harmful effects, so harmful that they should be criminalized.
I believe that one by one, those sanctions can be lifted. Specific drugs, whose effects are well understood, one at a time. That would solve 80-90 of the problem which might be as good as could be done.
But there couldn't ever be a blanket legalization of feel-goods because in many cases their harmful effects might not be known or fully evaluated. Plus new ones will arise and often.
I believe that one by one, those sanctions can be lifted. Specific drugs, whose effects are well understood, one at a time. That would solve 80-90 of the problem which might be as good as could be done.
But there couldn't ever be a blanket legalization of feel-goods because in many cases their harmful effects might not be known or fully evaluated. Plus new ones will arise and often.
OK you've lost me now, what do you mean by "go down this road of estimating and validating harmful effects"? Are you suggesting this is how the state decides what drugs should be illegal? Because that's absolutely not how it works, most drug laws are due to political reasons and not based on evidence.
I think that's what you mean by "wrongly evaluated"? That some of the safest drugs are illegal, and some of the most dangerous are legal? That's certainly true, stuff like weed and psychedelic mushrooms haven't killed anyone, but things like Fentanyl are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.
Your idea of legalizing drugs one by one based on their harm profile isn't a terrible idea, far from it. However it still doesn't address the fact that users of drugs that are deemed "too dangerous" will still be criminalized, denying them help, and also that the production of said drugs would stay underground and be unregulated, causing more death and injury to users.
Your last sentence demonstrates a misunderstanding of how the drug market works, people are not going to experiment with new untested drugs if there is already a legal option. A good example of this is the rise in "legal high" type drugs, which people only use because the best drugs are illegal. If MDMA, Cannabis, LSD, mushrooms etc. were legal, few people would experiment with lesser known drugs with barely any human experimentation.
As someone with personal experience of this legal high/research chemical market, I can tell you that it does self-regulate itself to a degree. And also that most deaths due to these newer drugs are due to unprofessional vendors mislabelling drugs, or naive users not being careful enough with dosages. A good example of this would be the incidents involving Bromo-Dragonfly or 25i-NBOMe (worth googling). The vast majority of deaths like these would have been avoided if LSD and mushrooms were legal.
The vast majority of deaths due to opiates like Heroin are due to impurities and incorrect dosages. By keeping it illegal, these deaths are not being addressed and will continue. From a harm-reduction perspective, it makes sense to legalise them and allow users to access pure product of a known dosage from a controlled laboratory. Just because it's legal, it doesn't mean that every schoolkid is going to start mainlining Heroin.
A proper education programme would address things like this, show schoolkids the real evidence of how dangerous certain drugs are, explain the risks of different types of drugs. Tell them that ALL drugs can be dangerous, but if you really want to take them, stick to the safer ones and be careful how you take them.
Yes and to show to all that they are really dealing with that problem. Usually police caught the dealer and than he is few days in jail and again on the street and so on...not to mention connections between mexican dealers and police on the other side of the border..
Yap, mentally physically, emotionally and socialy. Better go partying, at least you have social life.
Once again, you are all ignoring the best solution for this. We should make all sorts of drugs legal. That will reduce the crime rate and gradually the drug consumption rates will also come down. Countries such as Uruguay and Portugal have legalized drugs, and they have witnessed sharp drop in deaths due to drug overdose.
I'm not ignoring that at all, and I agree that drugs should be made legal. It's an unholy shitfuck of a mess that criminalization has created, and any "war" on drugs is a joke. But for those who get addicted--and there are going to always be plenty of them, legalization isn't exactly helping them nor is legalization a cure. And I do have sympathy for addicts, with limits. Some people are born predisposed to addiction, some are not. Bit of an oversimplification, though, to assert that "all drugs" should be made legal.
Legal can be thought of as produced by legitimate businesses with quality control in place, then sold at some type of legitimate store or outlet at prices comparable to street prices (otherwise people buy on the street.)
It's easy to say this regarding the marihuana issues.
I would likely allow legalization of at least some hallucinogenics. LSD, cactus. There's certainly a long track record with these and some understanding of them.
What about opiates? All? Some? Why?
What about meth?
Now what about cocaine and crack?
The problem is, by keeping drugs illegal you turn users into criminals, and therefore if they get caught, they go to prison rather than getting help. This setup also actively stops users seeking help (because they are afraid of punishment).
I understand your point of view, where you think the more benign drugs like weed and psychedelics should be legalized. But I think all drugs should be legalized. I don't agree with any law which punishes victimless crime, I think as conscious human beings we should have control over what we decide to put in our own bodies without fear of state punishment.
The key is education - if everyone was properly educated about the dangers of certain drugs then I believe there would be far less people with drug problems.
Suppose there is a cancer drug that kills 1/4 of those who take it. Should it be legalized? Should the entire FDA approval process be discarded?
Are you trying to say "all drugs that might make me feel good should be legalized?"
Look you're right, I was talking mainly about illegal recreational and therepeutic drugs, but I never said abolish any approval procedures or regulation on drugs. That's a different argument entirely. If anything, I would encourage regulation of illegal drugs because it would prevent countless deaths due to purity levels, dangerous impurities, or one drug being sold as another.
Not to mention taking the drug trade out of the hands of ruthless criminal gangs (who not only murder 10s of thousands of people a year, but also use the drug money to fund other lovely side businesses such as human trafficking), and into high quality controlled laboratories.
Your example of a cancer drug that kill 1/4 of it's users isn't really what we're talking about here, but I'll give my take on it anyway:
First off, it would be subject to multiple trials and research before being allowed for use, and if it killed 25% of users in human trials then it's pretty unlikely it would ever be released. Even if it happened to have pleasurable psychoactive effects, and it was synthesised by some underground chemist, then it would be a ridiculous business strategy to sell it as a recreational drug due to its 25% death rate. Basically that whole point is moot.
I believe that one by one, those sanctions can be lifted. Specific drugs, whose effects are well understood, one at a time. That would solve 80-90 of the problem which might be as good as could be done.
But there couldn't ever be a blanket legalization of feel-goods because in many cases their harmful effects might not be known or fully evaluated. Plus new ones will arise and often.
Once again, you are all ignoring the best solution for this. We should make all sorts of drugs legal. That will reduce the crime rate and gradually the drug consumption rates will also come down. Countries such as Uruguay and Portugal have legalized drugs, and they have witnessed sharp drop in deaths due to drug overdose.
I'm not ignoring that at all, and I agree that drugs should be made legal. It's an unholy shitfuck of a mess that criminalization has created, and any "war" on drugs is a joke. But for those who get addicted--and there are going to always be plenty of them, legalization isn't exactly helping them nor is legalization a cure. And I do have sympathy for addicts, with limits. Some people are born predisposed to addiction, some are not. Bit of an oversimplification, though, to assert that "all drugs" should be made legal.
Legal can be thought of as produced by legitimate businesses with quality control in place, then sold at some type of legitimate store or outlet at prices comparable to street prices (otherwise people buy on the street.)
It's easy to say this regarding the marihuana issues.
I would likely allow legalization of at least some hallucinogenics. LSD, cactus. There's certainly a long track record with these and some understanding of them.
What about opiates? All? Some? Why?
What about meth?
Now what about cocaine and crack?
The problem is, by keeping drugs illegal you turn users into criminals, and therefore if they get caught, they go to prison rather than getting help. This setup also actively stops users seeking help (because they are afraid of punishment).
I understand your point of view, where you think the more benign drugs like weed and psychedelics should be legalized. But I think all drugs should be legalized. I don't agree with any law which punishes victimless crime, I think as conscious human beings we should have control over what we decide to put in our own bodies without fear of state punishment.
The key is education - if everyone was properly educated about the dangers of certain drugs then I believe there would be far less people with drug problems.
Suppose there is a cancer drug that kills 1/4 of those who take it. Should it be legalized? Should the entire FDA approval process be discarded?
Are you trying to say "all drugs that might make me feel good should be legalized?"
Look you're right, I was talking mainly about illegal recreational and therepeutic drugs, but I never said abolish any approval procedures or regulation on drugs. That's a different argument entirely. If anything, I would encourage regulation of illegal drugs because it would prevent countless deaths due to purity levels, dangerous impurities, or one drug being sold as another.
Not to mention taking the drug trade out of the hands of ruthless criminal gangs (who not only murder 10s of thousands of people a year, but also use the drug money to fund other lovely side businesses such as human trafficking), and into high quality controlled laboratories.
Your example of a cancer drug that kill 1/4 of it's users isn't really what we're talking about here, but I'll give my take on it anyway:
First off, it would be subject to multiple trials and research before being allowed for use, and if it killed 25% of users in human trials then it's pretty unlikely it would ever be released. Even if it happened to have pleasurable psychoactive effects, and it was synthesised by some underground chemist, then it would be a ridiculous business strategy to sell it as a recreational drug due to its 25% death rate. Basically that whole point is moot.
Once again, you are all ignoring the best solution for this. We should make all sorts of drugs legal. That will reduce the crime rate and gradually the drug consumption rates will also come down. Countries such as Uruguay and Portugal have legalized drugs, and they have witnessed sharp drop in deaths due to drug overdose.
I'm not ignoring that at all, and I agree that drugs should be made legal. It's an unholy shitfuck of a mess that criminalization has created, and any "war" on drugs is a joke. But for those who get addicted--and there are going to always be plenty of them, legalization isn't exactly helping them nor is legalization a cure. And I do have sympathy for addicts, with limits. Some people are born predisposed to addiction, some are not. Bit of an oversimplification, though, to assert that "all drugs" should be made legal.
Legal can be thought of as produced by legitimate businesses with quality control in place, then sold at some type of legitimate store or outlet at prices comparable to street prices (otherwise people buy on the street.)
It's easy to say this regarding the marihuana issues.
I would likely allow legalization of at least some hallucinogenics. LSD, cactus. There's certainly a long track record with these and some understanding of them.
What about opiates? All? Some? Why?
What about meth?
Now what about cocaine and crack?
The problem is, by keeping drugs illegal you turn users into criminals, and therefore if they get caught, they go to prison rather than getting help. This setup also actively stops users seeking help (because they are afraid of punishment).
I understand your point of view, where you think the more benign drugs like weed and psychedelics should be legalized. But I think all drugs should be legalized. I don't agree with any law which punishes victimless crime, I think as conscious human beings we should have control over what we decide to put in our own bodies without fear of state punishment.
The key is education - if everyone was properly educated about the dangers of certain drugs then I believe there would be far less people with drug problems.
Suppose there is a cancer drug that kills 1/4 of those who take it. Should it be legalized? Should the entire FDA approval process be discarded?
Are you trying to say "all drugs that might make me feel good should be legalized?"
Yes, I think it is relevant. The use of the word "Drug" in this context means essentially "something I want that is controlled so I can't get it."
Who says what that is? Who says it is only feel-good stuff?
Some feel good stuff has horrible physical and mental consequences and side effects.
As does some medical non-feel good drugs.
Legalized or unlegalized drugs will be present and will be problem. It's the people who decide will they or won't take drugs..The worst is this new trend to make drug from heavy metals and chemistry mixed in crocodile and other ones..so there is no only official drugs like marijuana,met,lsd,cocaine..you have to deal also with new drugs which can be made from chemistry products you can legal buy in the shop
Yes.. Ideally more needs to be done by the government of each and every country. More severe punishment for drug traffickers ,smugglers and street sellers to separately controlled punishment for drug users.
Legalized or unlegalized drugs will be present and will be problem. It's the people who decide will they or won't take drugs..The worst is this new trend to make drug from heavy metals and chemistry mixed in crocodile and other ones..so there is no only official drugs like marijuana,met,lsd,cocaine..you have to deal also with new drugs which can be made from chemistry products you can legal buy in the shop
Drugs are one of the biggest self inflicted injuries to mankind, physically, emotionally and financially.
Yes people do get a short-term buzz and a quick hype from these drugs but do not they realize the long-term issue ? the damage it causes to one's self let alone pressure for their families also.
Yes people do get a short-term buzz and a quick hype from these drugs but do not they realize the long-term issue ? the damage it causes to one's self let alone pressure for their families also.
Once again, you are all ignoring the best solution for this. We should make all sorts of drugs legal. That will reduce the crime rate and gradually the drug consumption rates will also come down. Countries such as Uruguay and Portugal have legalized drugs, and they have witnessed sharp drop in deaths due to drug overdose.
I'm not ignoring that at all, and I agree that drugs should be made legal. It's an unholy shitfuck of a mess that criminalization has created, and any "war" on drugs is a joke. But for those who get addicted--and there are going to always be plenty of them, legalization isn't exactly helping them nor is legalization a cure. And I do have sympathy for addicts, with limits. Some people are born predisposed to addiction, some are not. Bit of an oversimplification, though, to assert that "all drugs" should be made legal.
Legal can be thought of as produced by legitimate businesses with quality control in place, then sold at some type of legitimate store or outlet at prices comparable to street prices (otherwise people buy on the street.)
It's easy to say this regarding the marihuana issues.
I would likely allow legalization of at least some hallucinogenics. LSD, cactus. There's certainly a long track record with these and some understanding of them.
What about opiates? All? Some? Why?
What about meth?
Now what about cocaine and crack?
The problem is, by keeping drugs illegal you turn users into criminals, and therefore if they get caught, they go to prison rather than getting help. This setup also actively stops users seeking help (because they are afraid of punishment).
I understand your point of view, where you think the more benign drugs like weed and psychedelics should be legalized. But I think all drugs should be legalized. I don't agree with any law which punishes victimless crime, I think as conscious human beings we should have control over what we decide to put in our own bodies without fear of state punishment.
The key is education - if everyone was properly educated about the dangers of certain drugs then I believe there would be far less people with drug problems.
Suppose there is a cancer drug that kills 1/4 of those who take it. Should it be legalized? Should the entire FDA approval process be discarded?
Are you trying to say "all drugs that might make me feel good should be legalized?"
Once again, you are all ignoring the best solution for this. We should make all sorts of drugs legal. That will reduce the crime rate and gradually the drug consumption rates will also come down. Countries such as Uruguay and Portugal have legalized drugs, and they have witnessed sharp drop in deaths due to drug overdose.
I'm not ignoring that at all, and I agree that drugs should be made legal. It's an unholy shitfuck of a mess that criminalization has created, and any "war" on drugs is a joke. But for those who get addicted--and there are going to always be plenty of them, legalization isn't exactly helping them nor is legalization a cure. And I do have sympathy for addicts, with limits. Some people are born predisposed to addiction, some are not. Bit of an oversimplification, though, to assert that "all drugs" should be made legal.
Legal can be thought of as produced by legitimate businesses with quality control in place, then sold at some type of legitimate store or outlet at prices comparable to street prices (otherwise people buy on the street.)
It's easy to say this regarding the marihuana issues.
I would likely allow legalization of at least some hallucinogenics. LSD, cactus. There's certainly a long track record with these and some understanding of them.
What about opiates? All? Some? Why?
What about meth?
Now what about cocaine and crack?
The problem is, by keeping drugs illegal you turn users into criminals, and therefore if they get caught, they go to prison rather than getting help. This setup also actively stops users seeking help (because they are afraid of punishment).
I understand your point of view, where you think the more benign drugs like weed and psychedelics should be legalized. But I think all drugs should be legalized. I don't agree with any law which punishes victimless crime, I think as conscious human beings we should have control over what we decide to put in our own bodies without fear of state punishment.
The key is education - if everyone was properly educated about the dangers of certain drugs then I believe there would be far less people with drug problems.
Suppose there is a cancer drug that kills 1/4 of those who take it. Should it be legalized? Should the entire FDA approval process be discarded?
Are you trying to say "all drugs that might make me feel good should be legalized?"
Well sounds crazy, but well educated people with university degree easy falls in drug hell. The one from middle or high middle class.They are educated, maybe have successful careers but they are alone and weak and because of that go so easy in that hell...on the other side people on medium or less education level are ekspected for that...some of them go because of friends or because they believe they would earn lot of money if they start dealing it..
Yeah you're right, but at least with the proper education people will do things like weigh and test their drugs properly, and maybe stick to less dangerous and less addictive drugs. I certainly don't think throwing people in prison will solve anything.
Indeed. I think education overall needs a huge overhaul. When I was a nipper we might've got one beardy dickhead in a patterned sweater giving us a rundown of why, like, drugs are bad while we all rolled our eyes.
It would be more productive to wheel out someone without a septum or a crack whore who microwaved her baby.
Also the utter misery of certain supply chains should be emphasized. Even if drugs worked on me I wouldn't do most of them for moral reasons. People refuse to eat non organic chicken but will shovel coke up their nose that might have caused hundreds of murders.
The key is education - if everyone was properly educated about the dangers of certain drugs then I believe there would be far less people with drug problems.
I agree with the principle but the evidence of what happens to you if you overdo your 'shit' is painfully visible all across the planet. Some people are hard wired to get fucked up no matter how much they're informed. And almost everyone suffers from 'it won't be me' syndrome.
Yeah you're right, but at least with the proper education people will do things like weigh and test their drugs properly, and maybe stick to less dangerous and less addictive drugs. I certainly don't think throwing people in prison will solve anything.
The key is education - if everyone was properly educated about the dangers of certain drugs then I believe there would be far less people with drug problems.
I agree with the principle but the evidence of what happens to you if you overdo your 'shit' is painfully visible all across the planet. Some people are hard wired to get fucked up no matter how much they're informed. And almost everyone suffers from 'it won't be me' syndrome.
Once again, you are all ignoring the best solution for this. We should make all sorts of drugs legal. That will reduce the crime rate and gradually the drug consumption rates will also come down. Countries such as Uruguay and Portugal have legalized drugs, and they have witnessed sharp drop in deaths due to drug overdose.
I'm not ignoring that at all, and I agree that drugs should be made legal. It's an unholy shitfuck of a mess that criminalization has created, and any "war" on drugs is a joke. But for those who get addicted--and there are going to always be plenty of them, legalization isn't exactly helping them nor is legalization a cure. And I do have sympathy for addicts, with limits. Some people are born predisposed to addiction, some are not. Bit of an oversimplification, though, to assert that "all drugs" should be made legal.
Legal can be thought of as produced by legitimate businesses with quality control in place, then sold at some type of legitimate store or outlet at prices comparable to street prices (otherwise people buy on the street.)
It's easy to say this regarding the marihuana issues.
I would likely allow legalization of at least some hallucinogenics. LSD, cactus. There's certainly a long track record with these and some understanding of them.
What about opiates? All? Some? Why?
What about meth?
Now what about cocaine and crack?
The problem is, by keeping drugs illegal you turn users into criminals, and therefore if they get caught, they go to prison rather than getting help. This setup also actively stops users seeking help (because they are afraid of punishment).
I understand your point of view, where you think the more benign drugs like weed and psychedelics should be legalized. But I think all drugs should be legalized. I don't agree with any law which punishes victimless crime, I think as conscious human beings we should have control over what we decide to put in our own bodies without fear of state punishment.
The key is education - if everyone was properly educated about the dangers of certain drugs then I believe there would be far less people with drug problems.
Drug problem is very big. Starting with children of flowers , hippic,70's and 80's..marijuana, lsd,cocain...genrerations have problems with drugs. And in school, street,clubs everywhere you see hey people..The problem lies in people, in relations with other people...it's not unusual that stressed people without friends go out in night club and then can easy become victims of the dealer..they want to find way out to run from problems but instead of that go in something terrible..
The politicians keep the drugs illegal because they want to protect the interests of the drug dealers.
Not just the drug dealers. Right now there are more than a million inmates out there in the federal and state prisons, who are serving their sentences on various drug-related offenses. I don't need to explain how big is the private prison industry in the United States. The other cartels, such as the banking cartel and the pharma cartel are also closely associated with the drug smuggling industry.
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