Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 381. (Read 1058927 times)

MarkM, this opportunity is open to you too.  You write very well, though I can tell you are passionate about coding.  So why not write up a few articles each month--you could even use material from your posts here.  Then you would be benefiting from the system as it's set up and you could use your writing income to help you do what you really love which is coding.  A lot of people do that--work at something they maybe don't like as much but are good at so they can invest in their passion.  There's nothing stopping you from taking the Devtome writer opportunity and running with it.

I am not "writing reviews" I am writing history in a form that is more understandable to regular people than these textbooks. You are completely misunderstanding the work.

History is history, sorry if it's not completely original. I am sharing it all in my own words though, no one else's.

Devtome, and money-earning projects in general, is/are supposed to support not only themselves but the entire devcoin project/ecosystem.

Yes, the ad revenue is supposed to be used to buy devcoins on exchanges, thus hopefully giving devcoins some actual exchange-rate value.

In order for there to be devcoins for sale on those exchanges for the money-making sites such as devtome to buy, there need to be people or sites or something that actually earns devcoins directly somehow, such as miners and people who are such avid devoted producers of free open source stuff that they got nominated and approved for inclusion in the receivers files, that is to receive a share of devcoins.

The entire 200,000 devcoins minted each round is really only worth as much, all added up, as the amount of money the moneymaking projects manage to bring in each round, on average over time, unless some speculators speculatively buy some coins or some potential customer of a shop or something chooses to buy some coins so as to pay in devcoins for something at a shop (and the shopkeeper likely will only value the coins the customer pays them at pretty much the amount they can dump them on an exchange for, thus ultimately at whatever price the moneymaking projects/sites can afford to buy them for).

So far devtome doesn't seem to have brought in much money.

I would not be surprised if adding code for divvying up more than just the bitcoins to a merged mining p2pool turned out to bring in massively more money than devtome, but thanks to it being massively more lucrative to paste stuff to devtome than to write code for divvying up rewards among p2pool miners such a pool still does not yet exist.

(It could sell all the namecoins, groupcoins, i0coins, ixcoins, coiledcoins and geistgeld for devcoins and use those to pay its bandwidth/hosting/admin costs and reward miners for mining bitcoins at that zero fee p2pool rather than at some other bitcoin mining pool...)

-MarkM-

And I am literally reading a textbook about Classical Civilization while I chat here. And I'm not in any kind of school or class. This is a personal choice, funded by my other postings (books I wrote, etc).

FIRST of all a review should NEVER be worth as much as the original material. Second of all it all depends on what people want to read (the ratings or views of articles) maybe sections that are "hot" get paid more than others becase they are drawing interest. Remixing words and rephrasing things in your own words is still not as creative and work intensive as the original idea or work. It's not like its worth nothing, but just not as much as I'd pay to read the original idea.

So your telling me that if I read a textbook about classical civilization, and I write, IN MY OWN WORDS, about what I am reading. My work is not worth what someone's work is worth that writes about a computer game?

And I was ASKED to come post my books here. I was ASKED to post my rework. That is WHY I WAS INVITED TO DEVTOME. Jasinlee saw me posting my books in the Off-Topic section, and said "You know you can earn Devcoins for this on Devtome". And I came on over.

Uhh I didn't write that... but whoever said that was right, the intent was to say that work should be rewarded and not rework.

Who's trolling now? You can't even seem to get the right person to quote, your misquoting other people and putting words in my mouth lol

Please reread Weisoq's post again until you  "get it" because at this point you're not getting it. I think everyone should read it and understand what he is saying because it is exactly what me and MarkM are talking about aswell.

My point was that Devtome brings traffic to DEVCOIN, while the other things we are talking about don't even have threads inviting more people to earn shares for doing it.

So basically you are picking me out, and completely making assumptions and getting mad.

1st, I don't copy from blogs. Sure, I copied a few of my things from my blog, but I extended all of it, or compiled it to make a more informative piece for Devtome.

2nd, I was asked to post my books here. That is the SOLE reason they came to me in the first place.

3rd, If you are implying that I bought 30+ books to copy the writing out of them, you are completely wrong. I have been taking hundreds of pages, and compiling them into about 5,000 words each. My words.

Just curious, how do those ads pay out, do they payout in cash or btc? It would be ideal if those ads were paid out via purchasing dvc on the open market(since theres always sellers thers no probs getting a good rate on purchasing dvc in the open market as a market order). If these ads can support devtome this would be the most ideal situation as you wouldn't have to worry about any dumping at all! It would be 0 sum from the get go. Actually if sufficient revenue was coming out of the ads you can actually say that you can earn as much as the revenue is being generated. So by writing you have access to x amount of dollars converted to dvc in the pool from the generated revenue of ad clicks and views/page ranks etc. A self sustaining wiki which supports writers would be fantastic!

So the bounties are to support open sourced projects where it might be harder to make it profitable from it being proprietary.  That makes sense.

Because they are unconditional, the Devtome earnings could be used to start regular businesses that take payment in Devcoins.  There's no bounty tied to it, so therefore no strings on what kind of business you can start and how you run it and whether or not you share your secrets.  But of course you can't force writers to turn their earnings in that direction.  I've just noticed that some are, and I think the motivation is that it would do the Devcoin some good and it also has the potential to make them a profit.  The earnings provide a ready source of seed capital if you write enough.

Is writing for the Devtome a great opportunity?  Absolutely.  That's why I jumped on it.  Am I benefiting from it?  Yes.  It's not "gaming the system" to take advantage of a great opportunity, and I'm glad Weisoq pointed that out.

I don't understand the resentment against paying authors as it was explained when we signed up.  Why are we being called mercenaries just because we won't do it for free?  While I'm happy to write on my own blogs when I feel so inclined, I'm not going to take the time to publish it on another site without some benefit to me.  Why?  Because I have a family to support and bills to pay.  Only the independently wealthy can work for free without sacrificing something.  As for saying that it's not working if you republish content from your own blog, that's not so simple.  My writing for the Devtome actually caused me to start a blog, and it's being able to get paid by the Devtome which gives me the motivation to keep it up and republish the content on the Devtome.  So... which came first?  The licensing agreement allows me to both publish the content on the Devtome and use it on my own sites, so I do.  These days usually I publish to my blog and to the Devtome within the same ten minutes.  It's fresh content published in two places (and in many cases the *other* place carries a link to the Devtome).

If the Devtome changes in a major way because it's determined that it's not beneficial to the project and vision of Devcoin to continue as it is, that is totally fine by me.  The Devtome is the paying client and as such has the right to make whatever decision seems right to it.  So I would say if the current set up is not working, then by all means, let the Devtome decision makers come up with a better set up.  But in the mean time, the authors who are making the very rational choice of jumping on what's to us an amazing opportunity, are getting insulted, called fat cats and mercenaries, and all we've done was see an opportunity and run with it.  I'm not personally offended or anything; it's just weird taking this kind of heat for this, when it's not like it's up to us to change it or anything.  If I'm not being paid generation shares for writing someone else will be, so why shouldn't it be me?

Edit:  MarkM and others who work hard coding, some of you have written quite a lot on this thread in the past day or so.  Why not repurpose your thoughts into an article?  You probably could mostly copy/paste and put in some transition paragraphs and you'd have a pretty decent article that's worth at least one share.  You've already written the bulk of it for free.  Why not take that extra little step to get something out of it?  Then that could supplement your coding income.  That's what I'd do if I were in your shoes.

It wasn't him...

If Devtome draws traffic then its ads should make money so it should be able to pay its own way.

In fact it should even start to churn, with authors paying other authors to wikify (make into links) keywords in the other author's articles to point at the paying authors articles, or to write entire new relevant articles linking to their articles to increase their page-rank and stuff like that.

For example if my page about Martians was making money, for me, it might be worth my while to seek out all articles that mention our solar system, or the planet mars, or war, or gods of war (mars as in martial), or to write such articles, in order to have them link from such articles to my article about Martians, so I will earn even more money due to even higher relevance / page-rank of my page.

Why would any coder join the project when they can make as much coin pasting one thousand words they already wrote about anything to devtome as they would get if they regularly as a lifestyle freely spent ten hours OR MORE without pay working on some code project directly relevant to devcoin's mission for so long and so well that someone picked them out to nominate to receive a share of devcoins?

They'd make a lot more coin just pasting a few kilowords of man pages or issues/bugs/fixes/changes logs of an existing project entirely useless to devcoin to devtome than they would being a devoted lifestyle free open source contributor of code to devcoin-critical missions...

An investor would probably advise them in fact that it is stupid to code because of the opportunity cost of wasting time coding that could instead earn more coin "collating" free open source content such as wikipedia pages and pasting them to devtome. They'd advise don't even consider coding until you have pasted 240k of collated material or 80k of crap you have lying around from when you took a mandatory course in English in college or whatever.

-MarkM-

Smeagol is basically like the model of "What to do right now". And I kinda have a feeling he is the one that dumped the 60 mil, so that we could have a Amazon DVC business. No hate coming from me, I think it was a great idea. Not sure if it was him, but it makes sense.

We should make threads for each bounty, like how Smeagol announced the bounty for a mining pool. Then there was a mining pool the next day.

There doesn’t have to be equal funding, I was just reiterating Mark’s point about valuing the most comprehensive, intensive, difficult endeavours and conceptually marking other projects (including devtome) against them.

If devtome draws traffic and revenue, that’s great – if it can generate its own financing mechanism that’s all the more reason to cut the subsidy paid by every other project (and it is a subsidy).

Perhaps I have completely missed the point but I thought Devcoin was established to support a wide array of open-source efforts, with devtome just one of the first realised projects underway. Instead it's just cannablising all other efforts for itself. I’m not a complete idiot - in that I appreciate that may encompass some element of appealing to those who aren’t just looking for a quick turn from an unsecured volatile pyramid - and that not everybody is going to pay up to support ideas before realisation - but the process does have the potential to build from that base into self-reinforcing value if reward is directed more broadly towards effort. But payment must be a reward for work. In this way Devcoin actually offers a mechanism and concept that could translate into a payment mechanism for a great deal of turning ideas into stuff and in my opinion offers an incredible long-term opportunity if it's done right.

Copying writings from an existing blog is not ‘working’. Copying writings from an existing book is not ‘working’. Nor is doing the same for long-ago filed essays or projects. If the blog isn’t popular or nobody bought the book it’s either a crappy blog or book or too nuanced for a wide audience. If the blog is popular or the book sold volumes then why is a double-dip at the payment well warranted? As with all writings, if they’re good people will be along to read them once you spread the word, if not you won’t and they won’t be either.

That doesn’t mean such efforts don’t have value, or that they shouldn’t or couldn’t be rewarded somehow through some Devcoin mechanism if establishing an open-source information respository is considered of value (social even, not necessarily monetary). But to make such efforts even commensurate with, let alone worth way more than all other prospective and ongoing developments combined (whether that’s open-transactions, mining pools, gaming developments, open-source applications, ecommerce endeavours, economic pass-through mechanisms, code updates, even specific writings pertaining to issues/topics of note to the broader aims, [add your own favoured area here]) is nonsense. Such issues can also be worked through without any necessary lack of appreciation for required maintaining and administering.

There's been little to zero effort to establish any element of passing-it-forward, where reward via devtome is used to establish further bounties or incentives to catalyse a network of other valued ideas into development. This means it’s just being gamed (no not by all, or even intentionally except insofar as making the most of a handy opportunity); an optimisation exercise in extracting reward for little-self-valued (let alone mutually valued) efforts until and before the last benevolent or interested buyer looking out longer term to impressive yet incomplete projects pulls their bid.

If something isn’t working it should be changed. Everybody holding Devcoins or considering the value-mechanism it could offer pays for a misaligned incentive structure. Just because something is a nice idea - and devtome is a nice idea - doesn't necessarily mean it's sustainable as a means unto itself, and without a reappraisal of the greater workings that nice idea won't persist, dragging the whole venture down with it.

Yea I think there are probably 2 sets of bounties, one created by the team and one by external people who will pay for a system. Either way there should be a team of people assigned to each bounty and not just one person I believe. The managing of the bounty is just as important because it will allow for a more fluid transition between specification to test/release and sustaining work in case there are issues in the field. Each bountry will kick off progress once the team is assigned and the payments are agreed. I think this would provide a higher success rate for bounty programs.

My understanding about bounties is that they are for specific projects that the Devcoin project people want done, and that's great.  And I know that if you have a project idea you can ask for a bounty and your request is considered.  In fact, sometimes bounties just fall into your lap because you did come up with a cool idea or little project and it was noticed...

However... that's not stopping people who have generated shares coming into their wallets from starting to think of things they can do on their own with funds that have already been earned.  In fact, you'll probably end up with more variety as people come up with stuff the bounty givers didn't themselves think about writing up a bounty for.

Oh wait, we're just the fat cats on the top of the heap keeping the little guys down   Stomp, stomp, stomp