Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 416. (Read 1059181 times)

I don't really agree (other projects in the works as you say, and stan's point about anyone's ability to fund anything of value in dvc) - I understood the 'true value' of dvc as supporting open-source work and what they may encompass.

But assuming that's correct, by saying there is no true value outside of converting to btc that implies that - at least as of now - the visible rewarded projects (primarily devtome) have no intrinsic value, because value is underwritten by rewarding or paying for those projects undertaken. And so if that's the case why are writers being paid in dvc when to realise any value they will convert it to btc?

Why there hasn't been more buying pressure is an easy one to answer: there is no true value to DVC outside of converting it to BTC. At least as of now.

A market, while it would help with some of this, would lead to the same general issue: if I want to sell something for $100 each... I have to get the money somewhere. So I sell for DVC, then sell the DVC to get money so I can get more items to sell.

A game would be different, in that you don't necessarily need to keep converting to fiat to keep the ball rolling. For example, take Facebook's credits (or any F2P game for that matter). There are millions of dollars being poured into the fake currencies to be used in the game. This is what we really need -- something that gives the DVC true value without requiring us to keep cycling it straight back to fiat just to sustain the process.

I can’t see why anyone or group with dvc can’t already offer bounties. In fact that seems like a pretty straightforward solution or process for those with ideas or frustrations with particular aspects but without the technical expertise to do it themselves.

Ranlo – I know what you’re referring to. The problem with that perspective in isolation is (1) The price had already been falling for some time (whether just in trend with other cryptos, or dvc specific) (2) that the seller(s) sold into a wall is perhaps better than if they had just sold right down the orderbook. Those with dvc have the right to sell them, even if it’s just to buy them back cheaper via trying to provoke a capitulation, so rather than appealing to justness perhaps it’s better to simply ask why there has been more selling pressure than buying.

Wiser - that's fine, but then people (not referring to anybody in particular, including you) shouldn't complain about the price, lack of incentive to initiate or develop upon other projects at that price, or any resulting dearth of bid interest.

Perhaps the guy who dumped the 20 million is planning to rebuy them all when the price drops to 35 sat...

I agree with Ranlo that we should leave the reward system as is.  That's what we agreed to as writers.  What we do with our earnings is up to us.  Personally, I use my DVC to better my life.  For me, DVC will become more valuable as more options to use them (without having to first trade them) to better my life open up.  People who develop such opportunities are welcome to promote them to me.

Ahhh, so this is normal? I think part of what is causing the dumping (other than the 20m from a single person) is how many people got shares the last round. At almost 1.5k shares across tons of people... those who got a few shares likely throw theirs up for sale because they don't feel it's worth holding since they won't accumulate more. It's possible that once this pay round ends, it will slow down on the selling end.

They have gone down to thirty-something satoshis per DeVCoin in the past, then back to over 200 maybe even 300.

But maybe nowadays the vast majority of the people receiving stipends are dumpers. Maybe in the past most dumpers were one-shot bounty recipients not people getting coins every round.

Still, we haven't even gone back down to the thirty-something buying-opportunity yet that we've seen before so hey if people want to dump them cheap that is more cheap coins for people to buy, right?

I am waiting for even cheaper prices before increasing my buying though, right now I still just have my same old offers at every satoshi of price that have been there all along.

-MarkM-

I don't think that's what it's about. If it was simply a matter of say halving the share payout to achieve the levels you refer to, by now with a price that has more than halved that end point would already have been reached. As devtome became more popular the share payout was always going to find an equilibrium value via the dvc/btc price amongst those transacting on exchange - that's what its doing and at this point it may be best to leave the value discovery alone to see where it ends. The bigger issue is that I think many authors ascribe near-zero added value to their writings being on devtome, and therefore it's difficult to begin ascribing any value to anybody else in supporting the price for the sake of those same writings. That’s not a statement on general writing quality (any quality issues can and will be addressed over time), or all writing, but that by for example rewarding writing that has already been compensated for and/or assessed via publishing or blogs or college or school etc there’s an incentive mismatch.

i.e. if I’ve already been paid for work, and/or an assessment process has already deemed my work to be of a certain value and so I’ve already been rewarded for it (be that in terms of money, notoriety, qualification, pride) I’m incentivised to view any additional payment for the same effort as superfluous and cash it in asap before the opportunity ends.

So if it was up to me - and it isn't up to me - I'd probably either have a small nominal payment for time submitting/editing entries or no payment at all - and let writings and writers stand on their own merits. If successful that would likely catalyse more interest in monetising it by those submitting and serve as a largely self-administered quality check. Alternatively nobody would submit anything and we could better appreciate the distinction between paid in dvc and supporting dvc. Either way it would increase the proportion for other projects, bounties and incentives - perhaps creating a self-reinforcing cycle of greater value for a greater number of interests. To give greater value to devcoins and devtome, people need to have a reason to acquire them at a cost - be that monetary or labour or time - the essence of working.

I don't want to call out anyone publicly but what I will say is that the tanking price occurred after a single specific event: someone dumped over 20 million coins on the market on their own, tackling the big buy walls that were already up. This is what caused the downward spiral and the "panic selling" we are seeing, and is what has killed the price for the time being. It wasn't a large group of people, it was a single one.

Now, with that said, I think the current reward system is good. People just need to start paying more attention to what they're doing before they make drastic decisions.

Well we can always experiment with the price. How about in the next writing round, the pay is half a share per 1000 words. We can then assess whether there is the same dumping. If dumping stops and the price rises, we can declare a success and keep it at half a share per thousand words. I'm all for it. Half a share at 148 satoshis per devcoin is worth much more than a full share at 47 satoshis per devcoin.

What do we need to do to make this happen?

I agree. This is one problem with apportioning such significant shares to potentially short-term individual work; it becomes quite straightforward to play around with the orderbook in fairly illiquid markets for personal short-term gain. There's nothing wrong with that - it's kind of the deal with paying somebody that you should relinquish the power to determine how they spend/sell - but with no necessary longer-term tie-in it undermines the rationale for the original broader compensation method, unless it's actually used as a means of establishing the true value of an effort.

Edit: as Icoin point out anyway, the exchange price is not necessarily indicative of devcoin's future at all - the volume of dvc on say vircurex is a very small fraction of total held and an interim lower price may work to the advantage of other projects.

That may be true, but it doesn't really matter - it still implies shares for one or more projects (or perception of them) were overpriced else instead of selling on fear and panic at that price those people would be buying up the sales of others' efforts.

I've held on to the vast majority of mine as well. Any that I did sell were at the high point of the market. Once it dropped below 82 (which was the highest I've personally seen) I pulled the orders I had up and I've been holding since.

The way I see it, the risk vs. reward of holding is much greater than doing panic selling at a fraction of the profitability. The only issue I have is that I think it may drop more from day to day before it hits the bottom... and even selling at 48 and buying at 47 when you have millions of coins boosts your holdings considerably!

That's the classic theory - in practice I think people are operating on fear and panic. They fear they'll get nothing if they wait to sell, so they sell. I've held onto all mine and sometimes I wonder if I'm a mug. Then I console myself with the thought that when fear and capitulation are greatest, that's when the market turns...

I wish we could buy some land. You know that project that was announced in the San Diego bitcoin conference, where they were going to do a deal with Nicaragua or some such place for a free-trade zone. It would be awesome if Devcoin could accrue some offices in the zone which we could then rent out.

To finance it we can just put a freeze on payouts from say round 28 to round 108, to accrue enough coins to invest. Of course that means the dumping of coins will stop so the value would rise. We could monetise devtome at the same time, and then once an income is flowing from that and from the office rentals, we can resume distribution. It requires a collective sacrifice from the community though - not sure if the community is strong enough to bear it.

Because those who've earned them them are selling at lower and lower prices - implying that many value their efforts and those of others at a (far) lower level than that initially paid, or where they perceived that payment level to be. It's probably better this happens asap as gives a indicative clearing level of the value of e.g. writings by writers, and therefore I hope a means of re-assessing sustainable payments and shares.

Yeah, this would be awesome. We need more things to back up the coin...

Also, I wish I had dumped all mine at the 70 mark into that massive buy wall. Then I would have over 55% more coins now by rebuying, .

People are panic dumping - they see the price fall and they sell in case it falls further. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

At some point investors will come in who think it is a bargain.

The price is too low given that Devcoin owns some assets - such as Devtome. The sooner it is monetised the better - that way fiat can be converted to BTC which can be converted to DVC which can be added to the distribution pool.

It would be nice if Devcoin could accrue other assets. Then we can market it as an asset backed coin.

Devcoin is here to stay.
The hasing difficulty is now: 3010755.66503920
If you just look at the exchange rate, its understandable that you have that impression.

I just see the awesome and generous opportunity that is provided from Unthinkingbit and the Devcoin Team to the Crypto Comunity.

We all can be gratefull for this!

I totaly agree that osgrid has to stay free without a kind of economy.

But you cant force artists to publish there work for free, and the missing economy in most of the actual grids is the main reason why artists from SL prefer to stay there, cause they have a kind of centralized economy. As soon there is a open decentralized  way to secure the Hypergrid this will change.
Devcoin is a aweseome concept, and you guys are the first who got generation shares for your writing work. The actual exchange rates dont reflect the real value of it, so its not realy wise to dump the coins at this moment to the market.

Everyone who has devcoins will be soon able to drive the cultural development with Devcoin in 3d Realms as generous donor. When you just dump it for bitcoin, you probably gonna miss that personal expirience.

Please honor that Devcoin drives the economic development of 3d realms allready! Its not a cooincidence that the biggest DVC Stock DVB is behind this development. Just a hint: it was a 3d reams developer that brought to you the devcoin module for drupal..

Awesome news! I look forward to future updates, .