Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 419. (Read 1059181 times)

It is not really practical to use actual blockchain coins in games.

Rather, one would tend to use either things denominated in devcoins or, even better, things that can be exchanged for devcoins.

The "even better" part is because when some glitch in your game causes players to clone their stuff, such as can happen in so many games, it is not good for the survival of the game for the game operators to have to redeem all those cloned coins one for one with blockchain-based coins.

In essence the banking in almost all games is not reliable, for example in all the web based games I have looked at not one of them used transactions that either happen in full or get rolled back and retried, so any time a hosting provider reboots a web based game there is a chance the game was part way through a transaction, which will never thus be completed, so it will be out of balance.

For example suppose a player visits a moneychanger to change goldpieces into silverpieces. instead of using one atomic transaction in which the moneychanger gains gold and loses silver while the player gains silver while losing gold there would be four separate database operations, one for each currency to remove it from the one that is parting with it and one to add it to the one that is gaining it. if the machine goes down while that is happening, maybe the player paid the gold but didn't receive the silver, or maybe both parties had what they were parted with subtracted and neither has had anything added yet, or maybe even, in code that is particularly bad for the game operator, both parties got given what they were to get but did not get taken from them what they were to part with.

So no virtually no game can be trusted to account inventory and balances so you need to turn inventory and balances into actual hard blockchain-coins at an exchange/market so that if suddenly all items and currencies owned by all players got doubled it would not leave the game operator owing a doubled amount of hard coin to the players, instead it would simply lead to the market prices of the things that got doubled tending to fall somewhat as players sell off their duplicate copies of everything.

However one could put Chaumian blinded cash tokens, cheques, teller's cheques and such into games as items players can pick up, since such things if someone already cashed them they are worthless. The only way a player finding one of a many times cloned cheque or Chaumian cash token can know it is still valid is to try to cash it in at a server. (I am thinking Open Transactions style here for example) so those kinds of things could be used, in which each individual one a player has is a separate distinct serial-number kind of thing that either has or has not already been cashed-in by a previous owner.

-MarkM-

Not just a game, Opensimulator is a SIMULATION same like Second Life. Its far more then just a game since in that Simulation can be played various games.

Markm you run your own regions in osgrid, you gonna be able to hook it to our grid to have economy, since i value you as a trusted person.

SL drove the price of BTC for a long time (30% of the exchanged BTC was in the past years driven by Linden Dollars until the price grew to the actual exchange rate) Do you imagine what it will do to DVC? grins.

SL made a huge mistake back in 2008 by not opening us the transgrid teleportation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v45EOma7wDo
According to me SL is, compared to the hypergrid today just a "kindergarten"

Wait, so you mean there is really going to be a game where DVC is going to be the currency used within it? If so, that's awesome! I'd love to hear when there's a private Alpha or something we can check out to help iron out bugs, give input, etc.

I love it that you run your regions, the load is caused by not properly running scripts, no worries same shit happens in SL, there is a way to locate such scripts in a loaded oar.
But i doubt that economy will come to osgrid, they have a strict "no economy" policy. Allso its gonna be not possible to implement that kind of economy without a securing chain working with Hypergrid, thats why the namecoin clone is needed (we definitly dont wonna bloat namecoin)

I dnt run a region in osgrid, i run a grid with regions and megaregions (5x 3.2 ghz + 10 GB Ram), but it is down actualy, since i need the server atm for other purposes. And everything starts to become needed after the Opensimulator Meetup in september.
Not just the owner of the frech grid for example is working with us (unthinkingbit listed ssm on the DVC developers list), if everything goes well there will be economy to.

Do we have good 3d artists here ?

Ah yes and we gonna need, Scripters, Artists, Hosts,Managers, DJ's, Security, Pole Dancers, Hookers, what ever you was in SL you can soon be in OpenSimulator to. Do you imagine how that will boost the DVC economy? grins.

I thank unthinkingbit for making DVC that cheap, its a awesome gift for the hypergrid

Well maybe you could round up more people who are on Windows 8 and form a Windows Clan or Windows Nation or Eight Clan or Eight Nation or something, or choose among yourselves some nation that is actually implemented in Freeciv as the nation you lot would like to run if you are interested in strategic scales of play. Or you could all get together and enter a MUD server or the Crossfire server aiming to try to get a clan-house set up.

If you all by yourself wander into some rabbit-hole into the game it is not really practical to have staff sitting at computers 24/7 watching waiting ready to hand-hold you, that is why I suggest getting a group/clan/whatever together. A hundred Windows 8 users who can be relied upon either to be 24/7 inhabitants or to regularly hold get-togethers on some specific schedule would make it much more feasible to look into budgeting some kind of support/help/introducer staff to meet with them in whichever rabbit-hole they want to use.

For years and years now the CrossCiv server has been sitting there but it must be at least a year now maybe two since one would see a dozen or two dozen characters on there at once, heck come to think of it it was back before the opportunity to become CEOs of intergalactic mining operations via web-based operations-control interfaces.

In theory/principle those characters are still in their keeps or houses or rooms in the CrossCiv server, using web-browsers to control their intergalactic mining operations.

In practice though over time fewer and fewer players bothered to leave their CrossCiv character online 24/7 so they could chat like one does in IRC, as once they came to know each other individually they tended more and more to use Torchat or gosh knows what else (Yahoo messenger? Google messenger? MSN messenger? Skype?) to communicate with one-another. Heck there is even a message sending capability inside the web-based village-management system and the web-based intergalactic mining operations system.

I guess the Galactic Milieu really takes to an extreme the problem of the larger the universe the players can spread themselves out into the less chance there is of actually encountering another player in whatever locale you yourself happen to wander into. Facilities permitting everyone in the whole unviverse to shout out to everyone in the whole universe have problems too though, especially before the advent of faster than light, multi-galaxies range communications systems. One thing that needs doing over the long term is setting up appropriate economics, like how much would it actually cost on a given planet at a given technology level under a certain government type to make an intergalactic call to a friend, how much to an enemy of the government that is in control of the area you are trying to call out from and so on?

A lot of the opportunity available to traders who actually make the trek to remote places to discover what deals might be findable there vanishes if anyone in any galaxy can instantly look up who on what planet of which galaxy can intergalactic-teleport them a magic sword of the best quality cheapest and fastest...

Yet for bitcointalk users it seems likely the interface they are going to like best will be one in which that is exactly what they can do: find what game offers cheapest what some other game pays the most for and how to ship an appropriate quantity of it out of the one game into the other game at a profit after shipping-expenses...
 
-MarkM-

Des anybody know the value of each share for round 25 yet?   It's looking like 300,000 coins which is pretty good but that's just a guess on my part.  I wish i would have written a bit more but i was busy with family issues and running a nuggets circus.  TIA.

Lol, every time I read something about that game I get overwhelmed... I don't quite follow. As a person on Windows 8 that has no idea where to even start, what should we do?

Do you mean the CrossCiv server in my sig? If so Crossfire is still very unstable, there is even a certain door that seems to have about a 50% chance of crashing the server when someone opens it. There also seem to be ways of crashing it during character creation. It seems maybe the specific sets of maps most public Crossfire servers us do not, or do not often, find those bugs so in years they still have not been tracked down and fixed.

For years i have been hopiong that the general progress toward elinminating ways in which a mailicious map-designer could design a map capable of crashing a server would eventually fix whatever my particular sets of maps are still managing to find, but no luck with that so far.

Also the link I give for a java based client that in theory browsers could be set up to be able to launch directly from a website is for a daily build, so some days it might work better than others and of course somebrowsers might be wisely set not to run java directly from websites.

Also some distros of some operating systems have quite old versions of Crossfire clients in their installable packages collections, for quite a while because i was using latest sVN to build from no distros at all provided pre-packaged clients up to date enough to work.

It has long ago been pretty firmly refuted that if you build it they will come, so the fact that very few people come via Crossfire clients has, over time, led to support/development effots tending to drift away from that particular set of clients and windows-into-the-Milieu-multiverse to others.

For example CoffeeMUD turned out to be a much more popular doorway, since there are web-based MUD-clients aplenty, compiled MUD clients aplenty for most platforms, and they can be played with just telnet, which presumably any platform that has internet access has in its toolkit.

Right now though you also would find cofeeMUD blocked to you... popularity has its downsides. We are looking into batch sales of player-accounts in order to be able to properly budget servers. You no longer just appear out of no-where and create a character out of nothing, with clothes out of nothing and maybe gear out of nothing, rather your clan or nation or whatever would be buying a batch of 100 or 1000 or whatever user-accounts to divvy up among their members/citizens/whatever as they see fit.

OpenSim though you should find some of our regions currently online on OSgrid, albeit i think the ones online there right now are either unmodified or not much modified linda Kelley OARs no hand-built landscapes with custom new architecture on it there yet.

Then too of course there are web-based systems too, but there too simply allowing random internet passers-by to create whole new villages or planetary mining operations out of nothing had to go, so there you'd first need to get a character on Crossfire or a MUD or some other individual character level of play up to a point where they equipped themselves with enough followers to go found a village or enough space-travel hardware to equip themselves with an intergalactic mining colony ship in order to get into those scales of play.

-MarkM-

See http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=galactic_milieu

For OpenSim regions, search for Digitalis on OSgrid. I actually have/had not just some regions with Digitalis in the name but also some generic names among the block of 29 or so regions I was running when testing how much resources it actually takes to run regions. Like Garden Centre, Adult Shopping Centre, Welcome Centre, Avatar Centre and so on, fresh out of the OAR file examples of Linda Kelly free open source regions. currently many of the regions that were up some days ago are down due to load problems; some of Linda's OARs ended up eating 100% of a core each, for example, even when no one was anywhere near them, just constant 24/7 load.

Even if we fudge a little, referring to 1024 metres by 1024 metres (a 4x4 square made up of sixteen regions) as a "square mile", and scale our Freeciv maps as if the tiles were only 100 kiliometers by 100 kilometres instead of 100 miles or more by 100 miles or more, it takes a heck of a lot of Open Simulator regions to represent at full scale even just one Freeciv planet... So the dynamic loading of regions as players enter regions adjacent to them will be really useful if the service that currently has that, based on Amazon instances, as closed source code ever actually opens their code or the community ends up re-inventing that wheel due to that service not getting around soon enough to releasing it.

We have been working on the idea of taking the so called "square miles" that Freeciv says a civilisation has and using that figure as the basis for hosting fees for hosting civilisations, but the scale, so many regions per square mile multiplied by so many square miles, still makes a massive gap even though that "square miles" reported by Freeciv does not seem to really include every square mile of every tile you control. (It is less than you'd get by figuring each tile is only 10,000 square kilometres, that is 100km by 100km, and counted every square kilometre of each tile that is within the civilisation's borders.)

The gap is that between how much it would cost if the entire civilisation was all fully ready for OpenSimulator players to walk into/over any part of it, compared to how much it would cost if all that was actually implemented was the Freeciv server running the planet the civilisation is located on...

...Plus of course details such as whether each and every market, bank and stock exchange's trading has an Open Transactions server representing/implementing it on detailed scale or whether merely each city that as a market and/or bank and/or stock exchange uses just one Open Transactions server to present all such services available in that city, or even just each civilisations has just one Open Transactions server representing all such services available in any city of that civilisation...

-MarkM-

He offered up a bounty for someone to write a Namecoin-cloning tutorial.

Interesting. What do you mean by 'progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?'

That is awesome! I'd love it if we could get a game together that works with DVC. That could definitely bring some value to the coins.

DevCoin + OpenSim...I love the possibilities...it'd be like Devtome in a virtual coffee shop where people actually get together to discuss things they care about, and more...use Devcoin to buy things like art and more in sim things which could have real life counterparts waiting to ship...you could do a virtual art tour, then buy the artwork with devcoins and have it shipped, but it would be more like going to a gallery than a site like ebay, because you could even interact with the other visitors and you could bid against other real world art buyers, in real time.

I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg, but I fully support this idea and will be happy to try it and report bugs, hell, I should open a virtual hemp store (sorry no thc in industrial hemp...that would be cool too though...a TOR protected part of the SIM for the less above ground stores, I don't know if that's at all possible, but this is a network of computer engineers here....ready, go).

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?

I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

Hi notabot,  thanks very much for the reply.
I'm happy to read your post.  Just learning the Devtome
system and ready to focus on writing more now 

Very much appreciate your reply and great information,
and looking forward to being part of the Devtome
and Devcoin community.

 

Hi, I signed up on Devtome a few weeks ago and wrote a article.
It's there posted and just waiting for the earnings script to verify
everything's accounted for so I can write more.

User: ecafe

When I checked the earnings spreadsheet I did not see my username
or any sign I was being counted in the system yet.  If someone can
please verify or add me so I can be sure my writing is being
acknowledged I would really appreciate it.

Thanks very much   

I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard: http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://twitter.com/MtGox
https://support.mtgox.com/home

Just to clarify what I meant earlier about individuals putting up bounties in addition to regular Devtome earnings for specific pieces of writing... I'm referring to the stories and questions thread Unthinkingbit set up as a result of an idea I and someone else had to combine the part where you can write whatever you want and also be more motivated to write content someone else wants/needs.  I was making the point that people behind the development of projects would greatly benefit from having those projects communicated to a wider audience in writing--very similar to how a business might pay a writer to write up a product brochure.  I wasn't referring to anything else.

I'm new so can't comment much on the culture shift... but IMO any shift that moves towards bringing more people on board (interested in Devcoins), especially more mainstream types, is likely to be positive.

As for publishing an article on the Devtome inspired by a forum discussion, I did that.  I thought of that because I read a post in which someone said it was great that the Devtome would allow for one to directly benefit from sharing an idea even if they didn't actually develop the idea.  I had ideas.  I shared them.  I got paid.  People on this forum shared my article and there was some discussion about it.  I don't see the problem.  However, if that ever becomes against the rules I will respect that.  The admins look over my writing same as everyone else's.  They can decide it shouldn't be there and I will accept it as long as the reasons given are clearly explained and consistent for all writers.  Actually even if my writing was being unfairly picked on, I'd probably accept that too.  The Devtome pays, which means the Devtome is the client (the customer) and the general truth in business is the customer is always right.

I have a busy day and won't be able to keep up with this thread today.  But just wanted to respond to a few things that were written after I posted last night and make sure I'd clearly communicated what I meant to say.