Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 418. (Read 1058949 times)

I was trying to come up with new ideas and I came up with another as well: a F2P MMORPG where everything is paid for using DevCoins. Much like the games that are already out, but instead of using cash to buy tokens for the cash shop, you would use DevCoins to buy the tokens (or just flat out use DevCoins altogether).

This would boost the value of them by a TON. It's also a pretty big undertaking though.

There are no current objections, so the bounties have been redoubled. Forum email is now 24 shares plus 6 million devcoins, the Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas) is now 96 shares, and the pool is now 64 shares:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

The Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas) bounty may be awarded soon:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2477344

I suggest another forum bounty, for a Simple Machines Forum (SMF) which would also get use of the coinzen domain name. This would be for adding a field to moderated threads to add moderators, or ban people on the Original Poster's ignore list or a troll field. Also, moderation would be the default and the Original Poster would have to deselect the moderation checkbox to have an open forum. Right now with the Aegis account a few people can moderate the thread, but it would be more convenient if the Original Poster could simply add moderators, rather than have to log in as Aegis, then log in again as someone else to post. Also, being able to ban trolls would be easier than going through the thread and deleting troll posts manually.

This would be 24 shares plus 6 million devcoins for adding moderators. Also 24 shares plus 6 million for banning trolls. Any objections?
 

Devcoin minecraft server?

What's your goal?  I'm thinking about making devtome goals myself!

How to Hypergrid Between Virtual Worlds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvHGCUyF4uw
Its not just a game, its a simulation, a platform for all kind of games.
The idea is to combine the open and decentralized platfom called hypergrid with the cryptochain concept.
http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/

I like these idea's a lot.   

that's a bug, I should manually adjust the script every round but haven't. round 25 is indeed ended. the file would be all right next morning.

Thanks for the explanation, Weisoq.  I had read the message you referred to but not seen the edit.  I have a couple follow up questions:

1.  How long will the document be showing the combined total for round 25 and 26 before round 25 drops off?  How long is typical for the closed round and the new round to be combined? 

2.  How typical is it to make adjustments after a round is closed?  I mainly want to know what to expect.  I had an earnings goal for round 25 which I thought I had reached (I was watching the progress of how shares were accumulating and making sure my writing kept pace so I could earn what my goal was).  Only when those 68 shares were added, that caused me to not make my goal.  This is not a complaint (I still did quite well), just a desire to know if this is something I should expect in future rounds.  Because if it is, then this next round I will simply plan to overshoot my goal so as to account for these adjustments.  Hope this makes sense, and thanks in advance for your patience with answering my questions

thanks, the later posts on opensimulation/dvc made that a bit clearer.

Wiser - it did close, I think it's just until the final 25 receiver files are put together and agreed with amendments for a couple of writers:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2726197
so in the meantime the script is pulling in round 25 and 26 as one total, and is increasing due to new articles, but round 25 will drop off.

I am wondering why the number of receiver lines for round 25 keeps increasing.  The document now says 709 receiver lines, but I thought it had closed at 600 back when we hit the 97300 blocks.

Here is the file I am seeing:  http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt

Most free open source games do not maintain fully relational databases. heck even most supermarkets do not.

Rather, things get 'stacked' and abstracted.

The supermarket might know how many cans of beans are in each warehouse, but typically does not know - not maybe even particularly care - which can is in which warehouse. You could sneakily exchange any pair of cans of beans because any distinct ones that are known to be different, such as damaged cans of beans, would be a separate inventory item but again no fully relational. Most engines for fully relational databases died off because full relationalness was mostly of theoretical interest for relational calculus not often of practical use in the field.

So hey who knows maybe if you bought a copy of EVE online or World of Warcraft server source code you would find there is no such thing as ten swords, because ten swords is not a thing, there are ten things, each is a sword, and each has different fingerprints and scents and history so that a psychic could tell which of them once was used by so and so, which is stolen and from who, which one sold where to who from who when and so on.

But in free open source games I have not seen such accounting/inventory yet.

Oh wait, maybe a MUD comes close, if it does not implement stacking/bundling.

But once you stack or bundle there is typically no going back to which item in the stack was which individual item before the stacking or bundling; it is partly a way of saving data space by reducing many database rows all saying sword to one database row saying fifty swords, type of idea.

You could illustrate it in OpenSim by rezzing fifty models of swords, each with their own object-ID, or by rezzing one model depicting a bundle of swords and maybe using less than fifty prims.

-MarkM-

You are thinking of three dimensional representations/models of things as the things themselves, and there is value in such models so on the level where you need to reward artists for creating images of things that is useful.

I am more rooted in the old classic idea that our games use the most powerful graphics processor in the known universe... your own imagination!

Throughout history much of literature got illustrated much later, the authors of the actual scenarios that many artists over the centuries took a stab at creating their own artist's impression of didn't pay those artists, and once upon a time the greatness of the plotlines and characters and events and so on did not lie in how high a definition the movie of it was filmed in.

So I am currently thinking more along the roleplayer lines, where a roleplayer might say "and he generously offers a million coins of gold!" and presto, to illustrate, being in an OpenSimulator environment, a million coins of gold can appear, illustrating the story.

To me with my current approach, whether the player actually has a million devcoins or bitcoins or MUD gold or whatever with which to "back" that gratuitous illustration comes in later; if a player cannot illustrate such a storyline because the player failed to purchase an entire million copies of a no copy no modify gold coin so they could rez it a million times that is a problem, a glitch, because it would make it harder for players to sit there spinning their yarns doing their bragging or whatever. Albeit it it would also prevent a scammer from rezzing a million copies of a gold coin to try to convince someone he or she has that many actual gold coins somewhere or that many devcoins somewhere or whatever.

I am looking at three dimensional graphics as an output device that could be useful to provide certain kinds of readouts/views, not as being in itself the thing to generate views of.

I am more looking to take a statement from a novel or a MUD or other "in words" medium and illustrate it, than to try to figure out what some pattern of pixels is intended to convey. What is to be conveyed is known in advance, how a particular artist or screen or sculptor or whatever will image it is largely a matter of their taste and their ability to convey through such media the meaning that the plot or story or game is trying to have it convey.

So if it is the case that a goblin enters and hacks off the head of a rabbit, there is no "sorry, no artist has drawn a goblin or rabbit yet so that cannot happen"; rather it is more a case of "sorry your display does not currently seem able to adequately display what is happening, which is, that a goblin enters and hacks off the head of a rabbit"....

I guess I am conceptually thinking of two modes:

In one mode, players are using OpenSimulator, so they can rez anything in any quantity without regard to whether it corresponds to what is really the case in any/whatever game they might be bragging about or recounting yarns about while hanging out in OpenSim.

In the other mode, the players are playing a game, and one more more of the screens their computer has available to it can, thanks to OpenSim, illustrate various aspects of the game in 3D.

In both cases, the illustration is there to attempt to illustrate the story/facts. Illustrating something doesn't make it so, rather, what is actually so is actually so whether any illustration of it portrays it faithfully/understandably or not and whether or not any illustrations even vaguely resembling what is so have ever yet been created.

-MarkM-

Yes each object has a unique UUID.
Not just me is working on this since quite a while, cause it has to be done right. You can help by getting DVB shares And when the grid is finaly running with economy there gonna be even more to do.
By now i suggest to become familiar (you definitly gonna need quite a while to become familiar) with it by creating a osgrid account and figure what is possble there allready.
http://www.osgrid.org/

How about setting it up a bit different then... with user accounts. Ex. you can deposit/withdraw a minimum amount, and then that goes into your inventory. As it's transferred from one person to another it would just stay in the game... kind of like Just-Dice (deposit on to their site, then you're no longer bloating the blockchain since you only add on to it when you deposit more or withdraw your winnings).

There are plenty of secure ways to ensure that player balances are kept properly... MMO's have been doing it for many years, :p. The main way they do it is by having a database that gives each item a uID.

Ex. there are four of the same longsword out there. While they are all named "longsword" and have the same stats, their uID (unique ID's) are 1, 2, 3, 4, so none of them could ever be cloned since there can only be one of each. As another is added to the game (drop or whatever) it gets the uID of 5.

I am very, very interested, if you guys are serious about pursuing this, in helping with game design documents and such. I think if it's done right it could be BIG.

You are right, thats why OT plays a role in this effort, but objects (Prims) and regions will be secured by the new created namecoin clone by having each object in the chain (im sure you agree with me that this would definitly bloat the namecoin chain). My personal intention for this is not about selling stuff, but more to be able to pay artists with tips.

It is not really practical to use actual blockchain coins in games.

Rather, one would tend to use either things denominated in devcoins or, even better, things that can be exchanged for devcoins.

The "even better" part is because when some glitch in your game causes players to clone their stuff, such as can happen in so many games, it is not good for the survival of the game for the game operators to have to redeem all those cloned coins one for one with blockchain-based coins.

In essence the banking in almost all games is not reliable, for example in all the web based games I have looked at not one of them used transactions that either happen in full or get rolled back and retried, so any time a hosting provider reboots a web based game there is a chance the game was part way through a transaction, which will never thus be completed, so it will be out of balance.

For example suppose a player visits a moneychanger to change goldpieces into silverpieces. instead of using one atomic transaction in which the moneychanger gains gold and loses silver while the player gains silver while losing gold there would be four separate database operations, one for each currency to remove it from the one that is parting with it and one to add it to the one that is gaining it. if the machine goes down while that is happening, maybe the player paid the gold but didn't receive the silver, or maybe both parties had what they were parted with subtracted and neither has had anything added yet, or maybe even, in code that is particularly bad for the game operator, both parties got given what they were to get but did not get taken from them what they were to part with.

So no virtually no game can be trusted to account inventory and balances so you need to turn inventory and balances into actual hard blockchain-coins at an exchange/market so that if suddenly all items and currencies owned by all players got doubled it would not leave the game operator owing a doubled amount of hard coin to the players, instead it would simply lead to the market prices of the things that got doubled tending to fall somewhat as players sell off their duplicate copies of everything.

However one could put Chaumian blinded cash tokens, cheques, teller's cheques and such into games as items players can pick up, since such things if someone already cashed them they are worthless. The only way a player finding one of a many times cloned cheque or Chaumian cash token can know it is still valid is to try to cash it in at a server. (I am thinking Open Transactions style here for example) so those kinds of things could be used, in which each individual one a player has is a separate distinct serial-number kind of thing that either has or has not already been cashed-in by a previous owner.

-MarkM-

Not just a game, Opensimulator is a SIMULATION same like Second Life. Its far more then just a game since in that Simulation can be played various games.

Markm you run your own regions in osgrid, you gonna be able to hook it to our grid to have economy, since i value you as a trusted person.

SL drove the price of BTC for a long time (30% of the exchanged BTC was in the past years driven by Linden Dollars until the price grew to the actual exchange rate) Do you imagine what it will do to DVC? grins.

SL made a huge mistake back in 2008 by not opening us the transgrid teleportation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v45EOma7wDo
According to me SL is, compared to the hypergrid today just a "kindergarten"

Wait, so you mean there is really going to be a game where DVC is going to be the currency used within it? If so, that's awesome! I'd love to hear when there's a private Alpha or something we can check out to help iron out bugs, give input, etc.

I love it that you run your regions, the load is caused by not properly running scripts, no worries same shit happens in SL, there is a way to locate such scripts in a loaded oar.
But i doubt that economy will come to osgrid, they have a strict "no economy" policy. Allso its gonna be not possible to implement that kind of economy without a securing chain working with Hypergrid, thats why the namecoin clone is needed (we definitly dont wonna bloat namecoin)

I dnt run a region in osgrid, i run a grid with regions and megaregions (5x 3.2 ghz + 10 GB Ram), but it is down actualy, since i need the server atm for other purposes. And everything starts to become needed after the Opensimulator Meetup in september.
Not just the owner of the frech grid for example is working with us (unthinkingbit listed ssm on the DVC developers list), if everything goes well there will be economy to.

Do we have good 3d artists here ?

Ah yes and we gonna need, Scripters, Artists, Hosts,Managers, DJ's, Security, Pole Dancers, Hookers, what ever you was in SL you can soon be in OpenSimulator to. Do you imagine how that will boost the DVC economy? grins.

I thank unthinkingbit for making DVC that cheap, its a awesome gift for the hypergrid

Well maybe you could round up more people who are on Windows 8 and form a Windows Clan or Windows Nation or Eight Clan or Eight Nation or something, or choose among yourselves some nation that is actually implemented in Freeciv as the nation you lot would like to run if you are interested in strategic scales of play. Or you could all get together and enter a MUD server or the Crossfire server aiming to try to get a clan-house set up.

If you all by yourself wander into some rabbit-hole into the game it is not really practical to have staff sitting at computers 24/7 watching waiting ready to hand-hold you, that is why I suggest getting a group/clan/whatever together. A hundred Windows 8 users who can be relied upon either to be 24/7 inhabitants or to regularly hold get-togethers on some specific schedule would make it much more feasible to look into budgeting some kind of support/help/introducer staff to meet with them in whichever rabbit-hole they want to use.

For years and years now the CrossCiv server has been sitting there but it must be at least a year now maybe two since one would see a dozen or two dozen characters on there at once, heck come to think of it it was back before the opportunity to become CEOs of intergalactic mining operations via web-based operations-control interfaces.

In theory/principle those characters are still in their keeps or houses or rooms in the CrossCiv server, using web-browsers to control their intergalactic mining operations.

In practice though over time fewer and fewer players bothered to leave their CrossCiv character online 24/7 so they could chat like one does in IRC, as once they came to know each other individually they tended more and more to use Torchat or gosh knows what else (Yahoo messenger? Google messenger? MSN messenger? Skype?) to communicate with one-another. Heck there is even a message sending capability inside the web-based village-management system and the web-based intergalactic mining operations system.

I guess the Galactic Milieu really takes to an extreme the problem of the larger the universe the players can spread themselves out into the less chance there is of actually encountering another player in whatever locale you yourself happen to wander into. Facilities permitting everyone in the whole unviverse to shout out to everyone in the whole universe have problems too though, especially before the advent of faster than light, multi-galaxies range communications systems. One thing that needs doing over the long term is setting up appropriate economics, like how much would it actually cost on a given planet at a given technology level under a certain government type to make an intergalactic call to a friend, how much to an enemy of the government that is in control of the area you are trying to call out from and so on?

A lot of the opportunity available to traders who actually make the trek to remote places to discover what deals might be findable there vanishes if anyone in any galaxy can instantly look up who on what planet of which galaxy can intergalactic-teleport them a magic sword of the best quality cheapest and fastest...

Yet for bitcointalk users it seems likely the interface they are going to like best will be one in which that is exactly what they can do: find what game offers cheapest what some other game pays the most for and how to ship an appropriate quantity of it out of the one game into the other game at a profit after shipping-expenses...
 
-MarkM-