Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 42. (Read 1058949 times)

My feeling is that more important than speculative trading that people want a token for the services and/or utilities it provides. There is work underway in the background on some ideas in that regard for DevCoin. An interesting comment by a STEEM developer caught my eye today, where they spoke of Smart Media Tokens which are expected in the next HardFork.

"I mean honestly if someone wanted to create a steem community that distributed EOS or TRON side tokens in a reward pool manner I think the interface could support that community just the same and the feature set may vary a bit. EOS ones may allow some different types of governance structures."

Full Comment: https://steemit.com/smt/@jarvie/re-ammonite-pxmri2

- Nova

With all due respect ...and I acknowledge there is respect due to you but in all honesty do you think these small trades we are seeing make a blind bit of difference to anything?

Unless a coin is actually traded on a high volume exchange with at least USD 100k in volume ,(that is a very modest daily trading volume) how do you expect anyone to bother trading it.

There is meat on the bone for anyone who wants to trade this coin.

When I originally came up with the idea of only issuing tokens to represent half of my coins, it was basically for security; I wanted to be able freeze my "cold wallets" so cold that it would not be remotely practical to "unfreeze" coins from them "on demand" to "buy back" the tokens from players when they want to "cash in" the tokens for coins-on-the-blockchain.

Thus it seemed reasonable to assume that I should only tokenise half my coins, basically dividing my coins between two logically-distinct entities, those being a cold storage ("custody" is maybe the term?) entity that holds, hopefully "forever", coins that are represented by tokens, and a bail-in/bail-out entity that buys coins-on-blockchains with tokens and tokens with coins-on-blockchains.

This way the cold storage coins could be buried in a vault on the dark side of the moon or whatever, since it would not be necessary to go get them back in order to "cash out" all the tokens; the in/out operation would bail players in and out of the tokens system using coins and tokens of its own. There would be no need to go dig up the cold-stored coins represented by the tokens until such time as the whole "lets use tokens to represent coins" operation is shut down, whether entirely or coin-by-coin.

Doing it this way has some side-effects.

One side-effect is that once a token is created, the coin it represents is off of all other markets. This could, at scale, make the coins progressively more and more "rare" on other markets.

Another side-effect is that no "customer deposits" are involved; neither of the two logically-distinct entities acts as a depository of other people's funds. Rather, we just buy and sell tokens for coins and coins for tokens.

However, there is a "bottleneck" side-effect also, whereby the scale of the entire thing, its "transaction-size bandwidth" as it were, is limited by the number of tokens that have been issued.

It also means the system as a whole depends upon being able to obtain coins by other means than simply issuing tokens representing them as they are obtained.

It needs, in fact, to obtain twice as many of each blockchain-coin as it issues tokens representing.

What this means for DeVCoin is that you cannot simply send in DeVCoins and receive in return tokens representing those DeVCoins.

Rather, the number of DeVCoins you can send in in return for dDVC (digi-DeVCoins; tokens representing DeVCoins) is limited by the number of dDVC available with which to "buy" actual on the blockchain DeVCoins from you.

Thus if for example I have 1,000,000 dDVC available with which to buy actual DeVCoins from you, you can send in 1,000,000 DeVCoins, I send you 1,000,000 dDVC, and eventually I might issue another half a million dDVC to represent half of those million DeVCoins that I bought from you.

That would give me another half million dDVC, so I would then be able to buy another half a million DeVCoins from someone.

And so on, half as much each time.

Hmm.

Obviously, in order to stock the system with actual DeVCoins, so that I can issue dDVC tokens, the system has to have other ways of obtaining DeVCoins.

Thus it turns out to actually be fortunate that several of the original Galactic Currencies ended up deciding that trying to secure blockchains of their own by Proof of Work was unlikely to work (even with Merged Mining), and migrated onto token platforms directly, so that they exist natively as tokens, no longer having blockchains of their own. Although of course it is still theoretically possible that at some future time, if for example GRouPcoin demonstrates to them that one can after all thrive using Merged Mining, they could decide to go back to being blockchains of their own.

Then too there are the Corps, such as General Financial Corp, DeVCorp, GRouPcorp and so on. Not "currencies" per se but rather "shares", although technically there is maybe not much difference, if any. For most purposes they are simply coins that only have a million in existence rather than, for example, 21 million.

The point here is that the system needs to sell such things not only for dDVC on the token platforms but also directly for on-the-blockchain DeVCoins.

So if you are considering bailing-in some DeVCoins to dDVC (digi-DeVCoins, DeVCoin tokens) in order to buy some other thing on he platform using those dDVC tokens, please consider just directly buying those other things using the DeVCoins directly. That way the system gets the input of DeVCoins without "tying up" dDVC tokens in the process.

...

I mentioned above that bailing coins into the system keeps them off of other markets, but of course they still trade, in token form, within the system.

Thus it is useful to have things within that system that go the next step, tying up tokens themselves to take even the tokens off of the markets.

The game comes in handy for that; it provides a number of ways by which tokens get locked into various things, including the "treasuries" of the various currencies and the holdings of the various Corps, and also the abstract economy system that deals in abstract chunks of "small business", "medium business" and "large business", which I have written of elsewhere. (Probably on Devtome?)

-MarkM-

DevCoin Admin Roll Call

It's hard to believe that three weeks have passed since putting out a roll call [1] of all admins listed on our Devcoin Human Resources page [2]. The response has not been 100% although very few of the emails actually bounced. For that reason a week extension will be added and an attempt to reach those that have not replied to emails will be made via PM here on bitcointalk.

In the meantime a space to ease communication among admins is being put together, so that ideas can be developed among one another while moving the DevCoin Relaunch forward.

- Nova (HR Admin)

[1] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.52244692
[2] https://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_human_resources

News for round 98

Liquidity for DevSTEEM's @devcoin

Just to let you know that @devcoin had little liquidity for the buy round so I lended 1.13181133 LTC to @devcoin, which was then exchanged for 87.827 SBD. I'll take my funds back as the market heats. BUT I need you to buy Devcoin at a lower rate, otherwise there will never be marging left for growing DevSTEEM. Remember, if we are baby steps, we should feed the baby. Or it will die!

Thanks everybody supporting Devcoin!

Go go Devcoin!

- develCuy

Nice, highest difficulty.  That’s why we are where we are. 

This is great Ctya! Thank you so much!   

You rock ctya! Well done!

DeVCoin is back on the front page of
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/

Sort by Difficulty. 

ctya

You're welcome! I'll keep buying whenever I can!

Second DevSTEEM's buy of DVC for SBD was completed https://steemd.com/tx/5fc3f3953a5a59f426d04e740e491ef4d618f685

Thanks for your support Cpol!

Btw, we still have funds to keep buying DVC https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/devsteem-stage-2-buy-round-1

- develCuy

Can I buy more than once per round? I would gladly like to help in the funding more!

Yes we get it you like taking shots at me. Doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Thanks for the reminder about Frei Exchange. I did check it and because the lowest denomination is one satoshi, the DVC/BTC market there is pretty much dead. I was wondering about any exchanges that offered a DVC/LTC market.

I might try the DevSteem thing, but honestly I'd rather just work with an open market.

Sure:  https://freiexchange.com/market/DVC/BTC

Also you might try https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/devsteem-stage-2-buy-round-1

Or just place buy offers here in the thread (oh cr*ap, you are probably trying to sell). I heard some are willing to sell.  

Perhaps you can set up horizon also, I installed https://github.com/NeXTHorizon/hz-source

I guess Stellar as well, but I have not looked into it yet.

---

My first thoughts exactly.



FTFY

That sounds a lot like Ethereum's first few addresses to be honest.

https://etherscan.io/address/0x0000000000000000000000000000000000000001

or even the last?

https://etherscan.io/address/0x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Integers overflowing and all the endian swaps in the world make it paint a bigger picture. Maybe wearing a different hat (red/white) you'd understand what I'm getting at.

How exciting blockchains make things. I hope for your vision to come true in the future as well. Maybe IBM being a believer in STELLAR, this will be good for your future pursuits:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ibms-power-ful-open-source-gift-big-winner-is-china-losers-include-you-know-who/

Looks like Altilly is delisting DVC. Do we have any other exchanges? Thanks!

Thank you kindly sir

---

How interesting that the form is a Google doc but no gmail

Hey bud,do you want to buy a few coins?I have the best quality coins and can do large tranches so you can buy all the magic wizard swords hookers and lambos in the fantasy kingdom.I hear those IXian hotties like the fantasy lambos. Hit me up bro so I can cash out some fairy coins and buy some real stuff with BTC 

Deposits are a bad word, thus so is withdrawals.

So think of it as buying and selling tokens.

Accepting customer deposits is a whole "thing" in some jurisdictions.

Plus, I do not create tokens "on the fly" representing coins that customers send in.

I created tokens already, representing coins I already have.

I like to only create tokens representing half my coins, if possible, so that I still have coins left over with which to buy back those tokens without having to disturb the "frozen" coins the tokens represent, coins which ideally have stayed in the same address for so long that the coin daemons (wallets) have hard-coded blockchain-checkpoints coded into them that prevents their ever recognising a chain that tries to go back in time and change the fact that those coins are in that "cold storage" address.

Heck ideally the keys for the cold storage addresses are split into umpteen parts and buried on treasure islands and/or safety-deposit boxes so it would be impractical to try to go dig them up again every time someone wants to trade tokens for on-blockchain coins.

Thus logically third-party (in this case me wearing a different hat) in/out exchange businesses take care of getting people onto and off of the platform, by buying on-blockchain coins from them with tokens and buying tokens from them with on-blockchain coins.

Once I have bought a bunch more coins that way I can go ahead and make a new checkpoint in a new copy of the client and issue tokens representing half of the new coins I have acquired.

So a bottleneck of this whole approach is that I cannot handle folks who suddenly want to convert more actual coins onto the platform than have already been represented on the platform by tokens.

But an advantage of this approach is the tokens are in effect better than 100-percent reserve; the coins the tokens represent hopefully never move on the blockchain, being traded back and forth of other coins than those that were frozen to be represented by tokens.

Depending on the blockchain it can make sense that after receiving coins on the blockchain one will want to wait quite a number of blocks before sending whatever they were to be traded for, especially with low-difficulty chains. So another advantage of using tokens on a platform can be greater speed of transactions since all the tokens benefit from what equivalent of "difficulty" a given platform has.

So basically you send me actual DeVCoins to some DeVCoin address I specify, then we wait for a bunch of blocks to go by. probably at least 6 I would think, then I send you DVC tokens on STELLAR to some STELLAR address you specify. Only so many DVC tokens exist so far so we have to start within that amount. My desktop's hard-drive dies yesterday so I am process of setting up my desktop apps and haven't set up STELAR again yet so offhand I do not even now how many DVC tokens I have handy.

Of course anyone else who has some can also handle this for you.

Getting back off the platform is similar, you find someone who has actual coins on blockchain to trade for tokens send them the tokens and they send you the actual coins.

I happen to know that I do have coins enough on hand to cover all the tokens anyone could send me, thanks to my "only tokenise half the coins" tradition.

Someday hopefully there will be production-ready free open-source code for making websites that accept coins and give tokens for them (out of a stock of tokens, not by issuing new tokens) and accept tokens and send coins for them. But no such code exists yet as far as I am aware.

-MarkM-


EDIT: I got a Stellar wallet installed again. Turns out I have 50 million or so DeVCoin tokens on hand (that aren't tied up in offers nor off in separate accounts I made in order to track offers for buying and selling various other things using DeVCoins).