Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 44. (Read 1058949 times)

So it is basically intended as some unit of currency for a virtual reality type game/world if I am correct.


Well after looking around I have noticed sell orders on freiexchange but nobody is buying even at 1 satoshi.

Look at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/dvc/ to see that the asset's name is DVC and the account you need to trust for it is GBHAQ252S4Z4AQOM4BWIRC3UHAOJIKCZQBUJGD336YH2O7W2NKRXMHA5

Once you have created a "trust line" for that asset name as issued by that account, you should be able to go into your trading pairs selection screen or tab or option or whatever your client uses and choose pairs, initially probably XLM/DVC or DVC/XLM (both are the same actual market, it just changes which side is the sell side and which side is the buy side depending on which asset you select as which side of the market).

You can also look up other assets similarly, listed at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/ if you want to trade DVC/IXC, DVC/I0C, DVC/XGG or whatever takes your fancy.

And of course you can pick basically any asset you have a trust line for to offer against any other asset you have a trust line for, thus make up whole new markets like DVC versus tht company over there's bitcoin tokens, or against that there other company's bitcoin tokens, or that other other company's U.S. Dollar tokens etcetera etcetera etcetera.

Where else includes the HORIZON platform, see https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-horizon-hz-new-ann-thread-2197968

-MarkM-

What was INTENDED to be a major use-case goes like so:

1) Many large intergalactic mining operations are financed in DeVCoin-denominated debt;

2) They typically send shipments ranging from about 5,000,000 DEUterium to about 15,000,000 DEUterium per fleet, sending one to 6 or so fleets at a time,
to General Mining Corp or General Retirement Corp depots;

3) They either request that General Mining Corp or General Retirement Funds pay them in DeVCoins, to their debt account care of General Financial Corp (whose loans are denominated in DeVCoins) OR they get paid in GMC by GMC or GRF by GRF and go convert it into DevCoins themselves and pay GFC against their debt using DeVCoins.

BECAUSE YOU-LOT kept throwing away all the DeVCoins the above rapidly became UNTENABLE.



THE FOLLOWING CALCULATIONS SHOW WHY:

1) Look up the price General Mining Corp and General Retirement Funds pay per 1000 DEUterium on the table at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/deuterium.html

2) You should see there that up until Sat Aug 24 17:11:35 ADT 2019 DEUterium was worth over 25,000 DeVCoins for 1000 DEUterium, that is, over 25 DeVCoins per DEUterium. (And a heck of a lot more if you look even farther back in time on that table...)

3) It is only now that everyone has Deathstars, able to carry a million units per Deathstar, that they send such small fleets, they used to wait until they could fill up a fleet of 1000 large cargo ships, a total of over 24 million units, basically 25 million units minus the DEUterium burned as fuel on the journey. So it used to be you'd see someone send six fleets of 24 million units of DEUterium per fleet. Things are better now, Deathstars have Gravitics, they burn massively less fuel per unit of cargo than large cargo ships do so folks send a fleet with even as little as four million units of DEUterium sometimes lately. But consider the case of six fleets of 24 million units each, that is 144 million DeVCoins they would need if they were to pay their debt to GFC using DeVCoins.

4) How many of you have ever sold even one million DeVCoins into play, let alone 144 million, so that some mining operation could use it to pay a payment on their debt? Or to put that another way, how much DeVCoin is actually available for GMC or GFC to buy or for mining operations to buy using the GMC or GRF scrip they are paid for their DEUterium by GMC or GRF? If we look at the HZDVC Issuing Account on HORIZON (Account ID NHZ-M3QP-ZXJ2-FCR7-2A4WK), the account that issues HZDVC tokens onto the platform so players can use them you can see it has still in stock, that is to say, un-issued, 99'777'389'030 out of the 100'000'000'000 that it created ahead of time ready to issue as DeVCoins to represent with the tokens come into play. 100'000'000'000 minus the 99'777'389'030 remaining tells us that only 222'610'970 (I am using ' instead of comma since that is what you see in the HORIZON client) HZDVC have actually been issued!

Thus, basically it just has not made any sense to figure that miners and/or GMC and GRF are going to be able to actually buy DeVCoins with which to pay their DeVCoin-denominated debts.

Therefore GFC basically has had to just use the Latest Rates include-file to look up an "equivalency" in whatever currency people choose to use to pay their debt.

Resulting in the loss of a massive amount of potential trading volume on the GMC/DVC and GRF/DVC markets or, in the HORIZON case, on the use of the GMC/HZ or GRF/HZ market to get HZ then the HZ/DVC market to get DVC with the HZ gotten by converting GRF or GRC.

So you see, by throwing away your DeVCoins or even just hoarding them, you have for literally years now been cheating yourselves out of a massive volume of potential trading, and allowing all that massive amount of DeVCoin-denominated-debt payment cashflow to be forced to not pass through DeVCoin markets on its way to the lender being paid.



TO FIX THIS maybe it would REALLY HELP to have lots of batches of 144,000,000 or so DeVCoins available to buy with HZ on the HORIZON platform, and probably batches of similar size on the GMC/DVC and GRF/DVC markets on the STELLAR platform...


-MarkM-


P.S. Think farther, too: if we make it so they CAN reasonably use actual DeVCoins to pay their debts, all the owners or shareholders or executives etc of such operations, and really in theory even their employees who see "the big picture", whether they live in a MUD or in a Crossfire-RPG server, have an implicit reason to favour accepting DeVCoin for things normally priced in MGOLD (MUD gold) or AMBerium/Jade/Platinum/Gold coins (Crossfire RPG's currency, though also they have fixed-value diamonds, emeralds, sapphires and Rubies also that can be converted back and forth to and from those coins at their banks.)

How do we buy this coin on Stellar please?Where else to buy some?

What's the end game here?What is Devcoin to be used for regards purchasing power??

The STEEM/DVC pairing sounds like a good one for the moment; particularily when moving forward with #DevSTEEM. It was nice to see the interest the buying/selling round generated. 👍😎

- Nova

The asset values info at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html has been updated. Overall it looks like pretty much everything is up in value.

As usual get onto HORIZON and STELLAR promptly to snap up bargains before someone else beats you to it...

-MarkM-

Always believed in you "Mark" - even if the gist of what you've done is only realized by me.

Thanks for the detailed explanation once again.

-Loony

Getting our tokens listed on sites that provide windows into STELLAR or HORIZON likely requires negotiation and likely also some kind of requirements we'd have to meet.

I expect that they will tend to want there to exist automated gateways for converting real coins on the blockchain back and forth from being tokens on the platform.

The problems with that are

(1) "Example" free open source code provided to do that part explicitly says it is not fit for production use so I don't and won't use it.

(2) The examples I have seen (for Stellar) assume you will issue (mint) tokens as real coins on blockchain are received from customer and de-mint them (return them to issuing account) when you cash them out back to real coins on blockchain. I do not find that an appropriate approach, for one thing it looks too much like the customer is making a deposit. I need to only be giving the customer already-existing tokens not minting and destroying tokens on-demand. That way I can be sure I really do have the coins on blockchain matching each token on the platform ahead of time, and be issuing tokens representing coins that are safe somewhere not freshly arrived from a customer into some kind of hot wallet. Ideally I secure coins in deepfrozen wallets in safety-deposit boxes and/or treasure chests buried on remote treasure islands before issuing tokens representing them, and hope my decendants / heirs-and-assigns never need to go dig them up until ready to stop dealing in that coin so no longer needing any tokens of that coin so finally free to go dig them up.

I prefer to turn only half my coins into tokens, so I have half as tokens for use on the platform and the other half available to buy back the tokens with, so that I do not have to risk the coins the tokens represent by moving them on the blockchain making them newly vulnerable to attempts at re-writing blockchain-history.

I prefer actually to first add a hard-coded checkpoint into the coin's client before issuing tokens, so that I know the up to date clients will not even accept a blockchain that has tried to go back in history and change the fact that the coins the tokens represent are in the cold storage address they were put in.

Also, buying and selling tokens can be a whole different thing legally in some jurisdictions than holding customer deposits. So I don't want them to deposit anything, I want to sell them tokens and buy tokens back from them. Thus having the tokens already exist ready for sale BEFORE the sale helps keep it clear no "depositing" is involved.

Even so though some jurisdictions might try to construe the tokens as "securities".

Interestingly, from what I have read about Facebook's proposed new currency "Libra", it sounds as if they plan to set it up like these game-currencies, that is to say, by having a "basket" of other currencies whose combined value they use to "back" the currency and to decide how many of the currency to mint, minting only as many Libras as they have value in their treasury to be able to buy them back.

Not sure if this is a case of great minds think alike or fools seldom differ.

-MarkM-

Sadly, some DVC investors might think that $10 monthly is a ton, but really that is all it takes to run a devcoin node ^{(if you don't run any other nodes already, else it's actually much cheaper)}. (I know because I set one up. Besides, https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dvc/ was running it for $10 monthly, but apparently you guys traded all your USDs for DVCs)


Or perhaps it is time we stop being lazy and just look into Stellar (and Horizon)?

Strange move from altilly to delist without any reasoning. It can't possible cost much to host devcoin.

Tradeogre seems like a decent exchange with ltc markets. Might be a good option to apply there.

Not easy for some noob to go buy Devcoin on stellar because you cant find it on their platform(s) when you use the search box.It has to be simple for the peeps :-(

Have you tried Freiexchange?Devcoin has been listed there for a long time now.Not sure if theres a link on the website or opening post.
https://freiexchange.com/market/DVC/BTC

Hopefully we still have DevSTEEM. I started a buying round for the first time! Yes! We are buying Devcoins for SBD. Learn more here: https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/devsteem-stage-2-buy-round-1

- develCuy

I contacted Altilly support and they were unwilling to provide a remedy to the delisting.
We will need to find another exchange.
ctya

Maybe so

Maybe we can get enough volume going on HORIZON and STELLAR platforms that we can get CoinMarketCap's attention, and maybe get HZ back on their site and maybe some of the tokens too.

By the way, the Latest Rates include-file is designed to be useful as an include-file, for example myrates.sh uses it:


So if I want to see prices in bitcoin for example I can copy the BTCrate and use it as first argument to myrates.sh and presto it outputs the rates in terms of BTC.

Or it you are, say, wanting them in Yen, you can find somewhere a conversion to convert DeVCoin to Yen and plug in the result of that to see the whole list in terms of Yen.

Etcetera.

With the Open Transactions system the Big Seven had scripts that would place expires-in-24-hours orders to buy and sell to/from the others of the Big Seven in three scales, usually in thousands, tenthousands, and hundredthousands, using a markup or markdown from the Latest Rates of 3% at the small scale, 2% at the medium scale and 1% at the large scale, or maybe it was 1.5%, 1% and 0.5%, whatever, the point is the include file was included into their create-offers scripts.

Unfortunately I have no command-line "make an offer on HORIZON" nor "make an offer on STELLAR" commands yet like we had for Open Transactions.

-MarkM-

Maybe a blessing.

Erm, you pissed them off :/

Okay, the new Latest Rates include-file is ready.

Along with the rest of the Digitalis Assets tables and plots.

(Though STILL the plots do not work in my browser, as they haven't since I swiched from Slackware to Ubuntu. Something about GNUplot in Ubuntu is different from how GNUplot worked in Slackware, but I still do not know what. Maybe someone with fancy HTML can figure what is wrong with the plot pages or someone familiar with GNUplot can figure out what you have to do differently under Ubuntu from what worked under Slackware.)

You can see right off the bat that DeVCoin is over a satoshi now, since a bitcoin is valued at less than 100 million DeVCoins now. Nice!

Checking the asset values expressed in bitcoins table confirms that, since now it shows 0.00000001 for DeVCoin instead of 0 like it had for quite a while.

Because there has been so much change this time around the arbitrage opportunities are even better than usual...

Basically a lot of folks don't run around changing all their offers every time a new Latest Rates file comes out, so a lot of offers they had made based on previous prices can suddenly be bargains. Get in there on the
HORIZON and STELLAR platforms promptly before someone else snaps up the best bargains!

-MarkM-

I have been busy doing a LOT of work on the scripts, so in the next calculation of Latest Rates XGG not only gets to count as a reserve but also is itself a currency whose value per coin is calculated based on its own reserves and such. (Treasury).

GPL and GPL2 values are now also calculated from reserves in the same way, as are SPICE (Melange), UFC (United Federation Credits) and USF (United Sci-Fi coin).

Those too are also counted when adding up reserves.

These added coins will be shown in the Latest Rates when next they are generated.

Also, long long ago the Martians offered the Czechs that if the Czechs would make peace with the Martians (they were at war for a LONG time, the Czechs were down to their last city on what is considered a Martian planet being as how pretty much everyone else on it is down to  only one city, and many of them are as determined as the Czech were never to make peace with the Martians), the Martians would create a currency, CZB, for the Czech. Finally the Czech have taken them up on the offer. The offer was so very long ago that back when I initially created the what are now considered the "big seven" Galactic currencies I created CZB right along with them, and they have been in the Latest Rates calculations as a reserve currency counted for everyone's reserves all along, but now finally they have a treasury and some of the other Civilisations have some CZB in their own reserves.

It might still be a day or few before all the typos glitches bugs etc are worked out as this involved a lot of re-arranging.

Here is a not yet correct work-in progress look at what the Latest Rates might look like right now, but things are not complete yet so these figures will change by the time the real Latest Rates are uploaded.

Basically some of these figures are glitched still, but these are the coins the new version will show.

In particular, XGG's treasury has not been fully input yet, so XGG should definitely be worth more than shown below.

Ditto for others, like gosh no way is SPICE (Melange) so pathetically low in value surely!

Even the Ferengi haven't gotten the treasuries for GPL and GPL2 (Gold Pressed Latinum classic and new versions) sorted out yet.

Also I have not plugged in values from exchanges for coins whose value we still have to go "discover" on exchanges (which seems to not work at all well really, since a lot of the pathetic little exchanges show crazy-low values for some of our coins when they list them at all. Look at prices they show for DVC, IXC and I0C for example. or DMD for that matter...)

Which reminds me, come to think of it IXCorp's reserves are now used as the reserves for IXCoin. I0Corp is still a work in progress but it is intended that I0Corp will become I0Coin's treasury.


I have had to over-estimate the number of coins of some of these new coins, partly to allow that more will be minted by the time the Latest Rates are generated again and partly because I do not have handy for some coins the exact number in existence. Probably I will want to generally use the number that should be in existence in a month or so, to allow for potential delays in generating a new Latest Rates file.

Once I get the current batch done, I plan to add AXIOM, AXON and QBT. Maybe only as coins whose values are computed from treasuries rather than as coins used as reserves, since holding them in reserves you would miss out on staking gains. So I am thinking maybe of having their staking wallets be owned by the HZGROW asset or something like that, so treasuries can just hold shares of such an asset instead of the coins directly, so they get exposure to the gains from staking.

-MarkM-