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Topic: Economic Devastation - page 68. (Read 504811 times)

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 23, 2015, 11:22:09 PM
Bitcoin (the Gavincoin fork) will die with the death of the NWO paradigm. That paradigm will enslave the people who can't make the shift the Knowledge Age, and those in that system will parasite on themselves until they have destroyed themselves. The NWO paradigm is a slow burn of eugenics. I am proposing an anonymous, decentralized crypto-currency to service the fledgling Knowledge Age and leave Bitcoin for the NWO which is was designed for. In the Economic Devastation and One-world reserve currency threads I have detailed my expectation for a bifurcation of the economy into NWO masses (stuck in the Old World Industrial Age, high fixed capital, socialism paradigm) and Knowledge Age future.

This would not be the first time humanity went through a slow burn of eugenics.
The last major one was 8,000 years ago with the onset of agriculture.

With the onset of agriculture and presumably the first emergence of social units larger then a small tribe
the environment changed dramatically.

Quote
Once upon a time, 4,000 to 8,000 years after humanity invented agriculture, something very strange happened to human reproduction. Across the globe, for every 17 women who were reproducing, passing on genes that are still around today—only one man did the same

http://www.psmag.com/nature-and-technology/17-to-1-reproductive-success

Indeed, the fixed capital age meant aggregating was the key to success. Agriculture required also armies to protect stationary crops.

As we've advanced into the knowledge producing activities, men have been fighting back.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
June 23, 2015, 11:16:08 PM
Bitcoin (the Gavincoin fork) will die with the death of the NWO paradigm. That paradigm will enslave the people who can't make the shift the Knowledge Age, and those in that system will parasite on themselves until they have destroyed themselves. The NWO paradigm is a slow burn of eugenics. I am proposing an anonymous, decentralized crypto-currency to service the fledgling Knowledge Age and leave Bitcoin for the NWO which is was designed for. In the Economic Devastation and One-world reserve currency threads I have detailed my expectation for a bifurcation of the economy into NWO masses (stuck in the Old World Industrial Age, high fixed capital, socialism paradigm) and Knowledge Age future.

This would not be the first time humanity went through a slow burn of eugenics.
The last major one was 8,000 years ago with the onset of agriculture.

With the onset of agriculture and presumably the first emergence of social units larger then a small tribe
the environment changed dramatically.

Quote
Once upon a time, 4,000 to 8,000 years after humanity invented agriculture, something very strange happened to human reproduction. Across the globe, for every 17 women who were reproducing, passing on genes that are still around today—only one man did the same

http://www.psmag.com/nature-and-technology/17-to-1-reproductive-success
 
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 23, 2015, 11:06:59 PM
I believe the death of the Industrial Age and the birth of the Knowledge Age will kill usury without causing a Middle Ages (Dark Age). I have covered the reasoning extensively in the One-world reserve currency and the Economic Devastation threads (as AnonyMint and various other pseudonyms).

...We want a meritocracy where to earn one must “Show me the code, talk is cheap” (Linus Torvalds).

In other words, we want 100% transparency on the merits of value and exchange (this is orthogonal to anonymity, which is more about escaping politics, slavery, and the refusal to forgive and forget irrelevant factors[1]). We are tired of that Old World morass, power vacuum, slavery bullshit.

Responding to a bit of an older post here but this caught my eye for it raises an important question.

If the goal is truly 100% transparency on the merits of value and exchange anonymity strikes me not as orthogonal but to some degree in opposition to this goal. It is impossible to achieve complete transparency in an anonymous system.

In this context anonymity could be justified only in a relative sense. A potential incremental improvement over a corrupt fiat system with even less transparency.

Transparency and merit is on the substantive production. Personal identity is not only not always required to maximize production, it is sometimes a detriment to doing so when politics can attack or slow production. That is not to say personal reputation isn't valuable in come contexts, e.g. local, tribal community.

For example, if I wanted to become a prolific leader of open source projects, I could create an anonymous persistent identity that was not correlated with my personal identity. That anonymous persistent identity would have a reputation that is orthogonal to my personal identity.

The argument against this is that society couldn't hold me personally accountable should I violate the reputation. However this is a good thing because it forces society to not place too much trust in any one identity and encourages a decentralized, fine grain approach to production versus a top-down one. Let me explain by example.

Recently there were discussions about how to organize the management of the proceeds from the launch of an altcoin ICO. The problem is that if you put all the private keys in one person's hands, not only could they run away with all the money, but that person also risks the rubber hose. If you made that person non-anonymous, the pressure to corrupt him would increase (e.g. the IRS threatens audit and the CIA says, "we can make your problems go away").

If you put these funds in a board whether anonymous or not, the potential problems magnify and/or you end up with political morass that wastes the funds. Ethereum is a prime example of having too many mouths to feed (too many managers and paralysis).

So anonymity is telling you that concentrating funds is not a desirable activity. Whereas, sending all the capital to the utility, hardware, and usury entities and wasting the opportunity to focus some of that capital to key investments in the ecosystem is also flawed. And so any solution to that altcoin ICO problem would need to reduce the concentration, in order to be more robust.

But if you compared with what Monero did, where the PoW distribution was heavily front loaded to reward the early adopters, but shared like a Communism, then there is less focused investment in the ecosystem and it probably flounders.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
June 23, 2015, 10:41:56 PM
I believe the death of the Industrial Age and the birth of the Knowledge Age will kill usury without causing a Middle Ages (Dark Age). I have covered the reasoning extensively in the One-world reserve currency and the Economic Devastation threads (as AnonyMint and various other pseudonyms).

...We want a meritocracy where to earn one must “Show me the code, talk is cheap” (Linus Torvalds).

In other words, we want 100% transparency on the merits of value and exchange (this is orthogonal to anonymity, which is more about escaping politics, slavery, and the refusal to forgive and forget irrelevant factors[1]). We are tired of that Old World morass, power vacuum, slavery bullshit.

Responding to a bit of an older post here but this caught my eye for it raises an important question.

If the goal is truly 100% transparency on the merits of value and exchange anonymity strikes me not as orthogonal but to some degree in opposition to this goal. It is impossible to achieve complete transparency in an anonymous system.

In this context anonymity could be justified only in a relative sense. A potential incremental improvement over a corrupt fiat system with even less transparency.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 23, 2015, 06:56:14 PM
Nope, it is confirmed there is no global elite.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/archives/33771


Whether the society and its elite is national or international or both is irrelevant. Relevant is: Do you promote the society (collectivism/paternalism) or the community (anarchy, self-sufficiency).

I promote the local and global community with my cryptocoin (and other technology) work and my concept of the coming Knowledge Age. But for you this must be absolute and preclude knowledge sharing in a "global community of exchange / sharing". The latter part is where we differ and you are all tied up into your Mathusianism which clouds your vision.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 20, 2015, 01:39:21 PM
I agree with the 'can't buy knowledge' part. Internet has made the cost of most knowledge almost free or next to nothing, something that people in the pre-internet era couldn't dream of. Hopefully these large amounts of knowledge available can bring some quality changes.

You are conflating past knowledge with knowledge creation. Go re-read the seminal essay in the opening post and make sure you make that distinction.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
June 20, 2015, 09:26:43 AM
I agree with the 'can't buy knowledge' part. Internet has made the cost of most knowledge almost free or next to nothing, something that people in the pre-internet era couldn't dream of. Hopefully these large amounts of knowledge available can bring some quality changes.
knowledge is priceless and thanks to internet it truly is very easy to become "rich" easier if you know what i mean. but i think people trust the internet too much though thinking that everything it says is true
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 19, 2015, 01:12:38 PM

...but rather just postulating how long a cat might be entertained with an acorn versus a grasshopper, I retort that the elite have no time to play with any of us who are not leaders of thousands, and they will expend no time to classify us differently than Zarathustra. The only people worth their attention are those who command significant following, wealth, or some uber technology such as Armstrong's supercomputer model. Also my model of the culling is a long and slow burn into totalitarianism. These collapses take decades to morph into genocide. The timing for the next Great Depression to start is Oct 2015 (that will correspond to 1929). Remember how many years from that until the killings fields began at the hands of the Nazis.

Long years of leisure and boredom await those at the top of the pyramid if they pulled it off.  All I can say, and all I said, is that if 'I' were an elite I would anticipate this and tune my selection criteria accordingly.

They are going to be plenty preoccupied trying to hold their top-down system together because I believe there will be an alternative system take hold that is competing with them entirely outside their sphere of control capabilities. They competed for control against geographical frontiers in the past, and now they will compete against technological frontiers, namely decentralization, open-source Inverse Commons, and anonymity.

Realize these frontiers are particularly threatening to them because their own top-ranking members parasite and divert flows to the frontiers secretly. In short, I think I will get a lot of private support from the TPTB for my new ecosystem, but in public they will fight me ("you don't shit where you eat"). Wink Cool Tongue

Also the circumstances are different in that Asia and not the USA is the safe haven for this coming transition, but Asia is already highly top-down structured in many respects.

America probably needs to get much closer to a Chinese style totalitarian regime before things can go without a hitch, and I sense many of our leaders drooling at the thought of such a panacea.  You might take the time to look up some of James Corbett's  work on the relationship between the U.S. and China (and the FSU) if you've not done so.  The hypotheses he proposes are intriguing.

In America the totalitarianism is political correctness (ideology and inflexibility) and in China it is political connections (pragmatism).

I expect the collapse from 2017 to 2020 to be a chaotic period of massive disruption (bank failures, technological unemployment accelerated by bankruptcy of old paradigms that were held up by debt, massive new job opportunities in virtual online work that most people are not qualified to do), where the young asians will excel because they are already accustomed to massive sacrifices and far away travel to obtain employment. Everybody in asia will be on the move (new training centers, moving to where internet connectivity is best, etc). Whereas, the boomers will hunker down and take drugs to escape from change. The West is stagnant and will collapse into a zombie State.

The Asian governments won't need to institute much totalitarianism because their debts are small and their populations are young and flexible. The main threats are coming from the NE Asians, i.e. the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. But Japan is ready to have its final whirlwind default then bottom and leverage the rest of Asia going back up. S.Korea will take a hit, but they too can leverage the rest of Asia. China will exert totalitarianism externally with expansionism over the coming Asia Union. The main problem in Asia now is China's appetite for power. We will see Japan+USA attempting to hold China in check, but behind the scenes this is power sharing agreement to foist increased control over the subject Asians by this new Troika.

So all-in-all I see Asia adopting electronic currency and other NWO edicts, but being otherwise the most dynamic area. The financial capital of the world will shift from West to East.

Putin is starting to get it:

Putin’s Speech – Tax Free Corporates for 4 Years




The likely reason Asia was higher than Europe before the Black Death is because Europe collapsed having too a high a population for the available agricultural work, thus there was no incentive to innovate and wages were in deflation. Whereas Asia was growing rice which is very labor intensive thus wages were not in deflation. After the Black Death wiped out 60% of Europe's population, then labor was scarce and innovation increased and the Industrial Revolution overtook Asia. I learned this from Nick Szabo's blog.


I suspect most of the widespread death (if it comes) will be due to perhaps a pandemic, which Armstrong's model has targeted for 2019.

Westerners  will have relied on the government and environmentalism and feminism to save them, and won't have the tools to save themselves. We saw that during Katrina in 2006 and that was not a pandemic.

Why own a generator because that pollutes with carbon! Why learn how to make ethanol, because that does not power an electric motor, etc..

Another source of great culling can be letting boomers rot in Obamacare rationed hospice. I offer the VA scandal as a test run example.

I've long felt that a pandemic is a no-brainer for culling.  Effective, selective, and relatively humane...I don't see any reason why most of the elites would be excessively cruel for no good reason.  I mean they are not God!

If the 'elite' don't get us with a biological agents one of their crackpot minions who's been brainwashed into an anti-humanic frenzy probably will eventually.  A single post-doc with some lab equipment could probably pull it off at this point.

The pandemic serves the purpose of creating a need for government to organize quarantines, etc.. It encourages world government level cooperation.


Silver is headed below $12 and gold below $1050.

The reason for that is the strong Dollar.

No. You will see the private assets rise with the dollar after October.

The reason is because there is a mad rush into the short end of the bond curve in Europe as the contagion there develops into the BIG BANG in October (which btw has been predicting by Armstrong since 1985 when he first published his model's prediction!).

Understand that capital chases capital, because it heads where the prices are rising the fastest.

So this is sucking capital out of other assets.

Also during a contagion, the most liquid (not leveraged assets) are sold first.

This coming low in private assets is to set up their massive rise after the BIG BANG in October.
legendary
Activity: 1834
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legendary
Activity: 1946
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June 16, 2015, 11:57:18 PM
A real world example of what CoinCube and that other user proposed upthread (forgot his username):

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Making-a-difference/Change-Agent/2012/0505/Greek-town-creates-its-own-alternative-currency

Again I maintain it can't scale (without anonymity and decentralization), because politics only scales by the Logic of Collective Action which is an enslavement paradigm due to the power vacuum.

Very interesting thanks for the link.
There are certainly huge and perhaps insurmountable challenges to scaling something like this up. However, a system like this does not necessarily need to scale up be useful to its participants.
 
The primary benefits of such a barter system appear to be:
1) Cutting out government, fiat currency, and perhaps taxation from transactions
2) Promoting self sufficiency and reducing dependence
3) Strengthening community bonds

The largest downsides are of course inefficiency and limited fungibility.  

For those who did not read the prior discussion we discussed the hypothetical case of a system like this up-thread in post #976-986
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10819803


sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 16, 2015, 03:35:48 AM
A real world example of what CoinCube and that other user proposed upthread (forgot his username):

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Making-a-difference/Change-Agent/2012/0505/Greek-town-creates-its-own-alternative-currency

Again I maintain it can't scale (without anonymity and decentralization), because politics only scales by the Logic of Collective Action which is an enslavement paradigm due to the power vacuum.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
June 15, 2015, 08:42:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiVROBhwHUM&spfreload=10

This very brilliant guy Tellinger is advocating the society based on small communities that voluntarily send a part of their produce to the neighbors. Yet there is no money, no barter, no trade nor value involved.

It will become possible via higher consciousness, he says.

Evil is evil Tongue
Communism idealism, dreams are dangerous when you act without thought.    Money is nothing but a marker, it allows us to count more precisely thats all really.   Pure barter or voluntary sharing as this is framed is a step backwards very simply because its less precise and harder to describe or plan for in a business cycle.    Sounds like just somebody who should be respecting or at least examining with a level head ideas in wealth of nations or similar, comparative advantage is a massive thing especially now with global trading.  Pure barter across such gaps does not work, or even a plain montary fixed ratio does not work as well as the free flow of money and varied contracts every day.  It disables some trade, discourages speculative ventures that might take place; in a small town setting, agrarian cooperative shared resource planning and ideas such as that could be a positive.

Some people adore communism, its just capitalism won back in the day.

Bartering only works to a certain extent, but as a business cycle I dont think any of it is pretty much reliable unless you do decide make a reputable plateform similar to ebay, but bartering style.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1000
June 15, 2015, 07:15:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiVROBhwHUM&spfreload=10

This very brilliant guy Tellinger is advocating the society based on small communities that voluntarily send a part of their produce to the neighbors. Yet there is no money, no barter, no trade nor value involved.

It will become possible via higher consciousness, he says.

Evil is evil Tongue
Communism idealism, dreams are dangerous when you act without thought.    Money is nothing but a marker, it allows us to count more precisely thats all really.   Pure barter or voluntary sharing as this is framed is a step backwards very simply because its less precise and harder to describe or plan for in a business cycle.    Sounds like just somebody who should be respecting or at least examining with a level head ideas in wealth of nations or similar, comparative advantage is a massive thing especially now with global trading.  Pure barter across such gaps does not work, or even a plain montary fixed ratio does not work as well as the free flow of money and varied contracts every day.  It disables some trade, discourages speculative ventures that might take place; in a small town setting, agrarian cooperative shared resource planning and ideas such as that could be a positive.

In short, sharing scales to Communism because it isn't economic.

(really if we all shared everything, nothing would get invested and if we don't account accurately, investment can't scale ... well at least this was true in the high fixed capital Industrial Age ... the Knowledge Age should enable the Gift economy ... my point is the system we have now was economically unavoidable because we didn't have the technology to move the real capital to the ends of the network but now we do...).

In discussions like this, it always end up pointing towards the same conclusion: In the future money will just be useless. I still think a resource based economy is the big next step in evolution, but it will take ages to reach there, and cryptocurrencies will be an intermediate step.
Comparing RBE with 20th century communisms is pointless because advanced automation is a new paradigm. Capitalism cannot deal with this constant automation of all sectors forever.

This goes back to history though.

Its why bartering doesnt work, and why fiat money was created to avoid bartering, incase someone doesnt like what they like for trade and still wanted something.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1001
June 15, 2015, 03:53:52 PM
It's not such a big problem, and so far I enjoy it, I have spent the last 15 years repairing electro/mechanical machinery, and I would like to "get off the tools" eventually, I just see it as the next step rather than doing the same thing for eternity.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1002
June 15, 2015, 02:50:29 PM
I have started to re-train myself, found some short online game development courses for n00bs, they are interesting, and I find them being structured helps, and I can learn at my own slow ass pace.

Whether I ever get good enough to survive with my new skills is another question  Tongue

Its great that youre picking up your strength and weakness of skills.

And you want to utilize it, but what I learned something in my life time is, why let that be your problem. Let it be someone elses problem, and utilize them to create your own project like you mentioned on a x20 faster speed. Comparison of having DSL for the first time, or stuck using 56k modem of your project speed being done.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 15, 2015, 12:03:33 PM
I reiterate my statement. For knowledge capital to trade and invest optimally in the Knowledge Age, we need anonymous, decentralized, micropayments money.


Quote from: Plato, _Euthyphro_, 380 BCE
Soc. Then that which is dear to the [plutocrat]s, Euthyphro, is not [money], nor is that which is [money] loved of [plutocracy], as you affirm; but they are two different things.
(Germaneness mine.)

Ontologically, “the [currency] or [money]” (qtd. in username18333) cannot (at least, substantively) undermine an international plutocracy.

Society will always be a bell curve and not uniformly distributed.

But the Knowledge Age paradigm shifts the incentives for those who concentrate the knowledge capital, such that incentives align with the ends of the network due to the End-to-end principle of network scaling.

It was the friction of high fixed capital investment of the Industrial Age which prevented optimal network scaling.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 15, 2015, 11:57:22 AM
WE know many of those pieces, and we OWN the Korean bearing market in Peru.

A mini-monopoly, close anyway and for now (as China edges into these markets)...

That is arbitrage which is a Knowledge Age vocation.

How many times have I said programming is not the only (or even 1/100th of) the vocation(s) in the coming Knowledge Age.

http://www.futuristspeaker.com/2011/11/55-jobs-of-the-future/
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1001
June 14, 2015, 07:21:24 PM
I have started to re-train myself, found some short online game development courses for n00bs, they are interesting, and I find them being structured helps, and I can learn at my own slow ass pace.

Whether I ever get good enough to survive with my new skills is another question  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1865
June 14, 2015, 12:21:43 PM
...

Yes, TPTB, I understand that the margins for mass-produced products are decreasing (especially as CHINA pushes further into "el-cheapo" bearing production).  And that the returns on high-knowledge products and services will increase in the future.

Peru, alas, is not ready for the Knowledge Age.  And those of us running our bearing company are too old to be active participants in the new age to come.

One of the few areas where knowledge DOES help us is that certain automotive applications require "special pieces".  The OEM car companies wanted to be able to corral owners, where possible, into buying a replacement piece that ONLY they have (that a Korean bearing maker made for Hyundai for example).  WE know many of those pieces, and we OWN the Korean bearing market in Peru.

A mini-monopoly, close anyway and for now (as China edges into these markets)...
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 14, 2015, 12:05:52 PM
OROBTC yes things that need to manufactured in high economies-of-scale are not Knowledge Age directed. But realize that both the profit margins and cost-of-production on such manufacture is declining inexorably and asymptotically towards 0. Knowledge Age activities are where all the economic activity increasingly resides. I made this point with some data and a chart in one of the two essays I wrote which are linked in the opening post of this thread.
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