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Topic: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration - page 4. (Read 893 times)

be.open
copper member
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White Russian
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 12:18:22 PM
#48
Quote from: suchmoon on March 24, 2022, 11:27:42 AM
The fact is, Putin's Russia will be selling rubles to Germany to pay for gas, so euros will end up in Putin's pocket, just as it's happening now.
Russia does not need euros, but the freedom to dispose of them, to buy everything that Russia needs, even if sanctions are imposed on it. One phrase of Putin's "gas for rubles" made 6,000 Western sanctions a senseless hysterical dummy. It is foolish to threaten Russia when she holds you by the balls - Europe will quickly learn this lesson.

Russia could itself overcome the sanctions through spacers and intermediaries, it has enough loyal partners in the world and enough experience. But then the Russians would have to pay overheads and commissions. Now the overhead costs of overcoming their own sanctions will fall on the shoulders of the West. This is an example of political judo, which Putin is very good at.
Zlantann
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1020
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 12:11:21 PM
#47
Sanctions will never deter Putin, this war has been planned for years. Russia for now is indispensable and Putin understands this fact. It would take years for the world to learn how to survive without Russia. Ukraine should know that NATO is powerless, they are avoiding direct military conflict with Russia and their hands are tied economically. Ukraine and Russia have learnt their lessons: Ukraine now know that Russia is untouchable and Russia understands now that Ukraine is not a military walkover. The solution now is compromise, but Zelensky should know that Ukraine must make the greater sacrifice.
suchmoon
legendary
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https://bpip.org
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 11:27:42 AM
#46
Quote from: be.open on March 24, 2022, 08:31:33 AM
Well, yes, I think Putin has enough rubles.

Quote from: be.open on March 24, 2022, 09:24:40 AM
You think irrationally, what is the point of him wanting the euro if they are under sanctions?

Which is it then?

Quote from: be.open on March 24, 2022, 09:24:40 AM
What to do with them

I don't know, ask Vlad and tell us.

The fact is, Putin's Russia will be selling rubles to Germany to pay for gas, so euros will end up in Putin's pocket, just as it's happening now.
be.open
copper member
Activity: 2100
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White Russian
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 09:24:40 AM
#45
Quote from: suchmoon on March 24, 2022, 09:06:44 AM
No matter how you polish the turd, Putin wants more euros.
You think irrationally, what is the point of him wanting the euro if they are under sanctions? What to do with them - look at the frozen numbers on the screen? The European Union is now in an extremely difficult life situation for anyone in their right mind to want the euro. Uncontrolled price increases, strikes, an influx of refugees and strong internal divisions. My forecast for the European Union is that it will collapse in one or two years, and in a month one euro will be cheaper than one US dollar.
suchmoon
legendary
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Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 09:06:44 AM
#44
Quote from: be.open on March 24, 2022, 08:31:33 AM
Well, yes, I think Putin has enough rubles. But there is a nuance, now Germany, Austria, Japan and all other unfriendly countries that buy gas from Russia will want rubles. And in order to continue buying Russian gas, they will have to learn how to get around their own sanctions, which they have so generously imposed on Russia. And they will have to support the Russian economy, which they have already declared "torn to shreds."

No matter how you polish the turd, Putin wants more euros. There rest of it is status quo, gas/oil exports for the most part haven't been sanctioned and there is no additional support for the Russian economy. On the contrary, this ruble nonsense will make even more loyal gal/oil buyers rethink dealing with Russia.

Quote from: be.open on March 24, 2022, 08:31:33 AM
it is enough to cut an A3 pack in half at the nearest printing house and there will be two A4 packs.

And then cut it further and glue it together to make cash register tape, etc. What could possibly go wrong.

Quote from: be.open on March 24, 2022, 08:31:33 AM
Russia has been living under sanctions for a hundred years, this will not scare us. We are Russians - God is with us.

That's one thing Russia will never run out of - imaginary murderous sky fairies.
be.open
copper member
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White Russian
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 08:31:33 AM
#43
Quote from: suchmoon on March 24, 2022, 07:15:51 AM
Quote from: be.open on March 23, 2022, 12:06:16 PM
Quote from: Mometaskers on March 23, 2022, 11:46:22 AM
I don't know about Russia's retaliatory capabilities against countries that don't border them but Putin will likely try something.
Putin today announced the sale of gas for rubles to unfriendly countries.

Putin could easily force Gazprom to sell their euros at any rate he wants. The only reason to try to force e.g. Germany to do it is to basically renege on the contract - I bet the rate he wants will be something ludicrous and not the current market rate. Essentially he wants more euros, not rubles.

Well, yes, I think Putin has enough rubles. But there is a nuance, now Germany, Austria, Japan and all other unfriendly countries that buy gas from Russia will want rubles. And in order to continue buying Russian gas, they will have to learn how to get around their own sanctions, which they have so generously imposed on Russia. And they will have to support the Russian economy, which they have already declared "torn to shreds."

Walked now to the store - the shelves are full of products, including sugar. I didn’t buy it, I still have more than enough stocks from the pandemic. Prices for office paper are also artificially inflated, a pack of A3 paper is cheaper than a pack of A4 paper, although it is enough to cut an A3 pack in half at the nearest printing house and there will be two A4 packs. Maybe this is a good reason to reduce the bureaucracy in Russia and introduce electronic document management not together with paper, but instead.

Russia has been living under sanctions for a hundred years, this will not scare us. We are Russians - God is with us.
suchmoon
legendary
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https://bpip.org
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 07:15:51 AM
#42
Quote from: be.open on March 23, 2022, 12:06:16 PM
Quote from: Mometaskers on March 23, 2022, 11:46:22 AM
I don't know about Russia's retaliatory capabilities against countries that don't border them but Putin will likely try something.
Putin today announced the sale of gas for rubles to unfriendly countries.

Putin could easily force Gazprom to sell their euros at any rate he wants. The only reason to try to force e.g. Germany to do it is to basically renege on the contract - I bet the rate he wants will be something ludicrous and not the current market rate. Essentially he wants more euros, not rubles.
be.open
copper member
Activity: 2100
Merit: 903
White Russian
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 05:28:56 AM
#41
Quote from: Tash on March 24, 2022, 04:54:44 AM

World once again move back to the crazy old days.
Quote
I would like to point out that the supply situation for liquid fuels makes all owners of commercial vehicles in their own interest the conversion to the operation with wood generator gas as a duty.
Anyone who does not convert his vehicle can not expect to continue to receive petrol or diesel fuel in the foreseeable future.
Reichsminister Albert Speer, 22.10.1942
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXaoQ0k9Jlg
Half hour start-up time takes all the stress out of the rush hour. With extra bag of supply and refulling stops more then 100km reach.
Should be made compulsory for idiot politicians for daily work drive.
Elon Musk recently launched a factory in Germany and even danced at the opening. To hell with gasoline, progressive Europe will soon drive only electric cars! And electricity for them will be generated by wind turbines. The main thing is that the wind does not blow from the east, from the territory of backward Russia. And then scientists will invent household teleporters and the problem of movement will be solved in a radical way. Just to live until brighter days!  Grin
Tash
sr. member
Activity: 1190
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Pro financial, medical liberty
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 04:54:44 AM
#40

World once again move back to the crazy old days.
Quote
I would like to point out that the supply situation for liquid fuels makes all owners of commercial vehicles in their own interest the conversion to the operation with wood generator gas as a duty.
Anyone who does not convert his vehicle can not expect to continue to receive petrol or diesel fuel in the foreseeable future.
Reichsminister Albert Speer, 22.10.1942
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXaoQ0k9Jlg
Half hour start-up time takes all the stress out of the rush hour. With extra bag of supply and refulling stops more then 100km reach.
Should be made compulsory for idiot politicians for daily work drive.
be.open
copper member
Activity: 2100
Merit: 903
White Russian
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 03:43:53 AM
#39
Quote from: af_newbie on March 24, 2022, 12:57:44 AM
West should just stop ALL business with Russia
You are calling the West to economic suicide. The big economy of the West really means that the West has a lot of debt and well developed derivatives. But futures and options are not edible. The strength of the dollar and the euro is based on trust in them, which is now undermined by the freezing of funds from the Central Bank of Russia, and once undermined trust is very difficult to return back. Germany alone needs more LPG tankers to replace Russian gas than there are anywhere in the world. Once again, if all the tankers in the world drop their business and take gas to Germany, this will not be enough. Try to turn on the brain before demanding the impossible from the West.
BambiDx
newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 1
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 02:50:46 AM
#38
Quote from: paxmao on March 05, 2022, 06:22:24 PM
Putin is trying to make economic sanctions an equivalent to a declaration of war. Why this is not true:

- An economic sanction does not kill people (not directly nor quickly).
- Economic sanctions mean simply that other countries do not want to trade with you. That is not fighting, is simply a effect of failing to have a successful relation with the international community.
- Economic sanctions are reversible. It is Putin's hand to take the steps to come back into the international community.




The US uses economic sanctions as a tool of foreign policy. While typically touted as a better alternative to war, they severely affect community health and well-being. They are, in fact, just another name for warfare.
af_newbie
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 1468
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 12:57:44 AM
#37
Quote from: be.open on March 24, 2022, 12:43:44 AM
Quote from: paxmao on March 23, 2022, 06:14:10 PM
Quote from: be.open on March 23, 2022, 12:06:16 PM
Quote from: Mometaskers on March 23, 2022, 11:46:22 AM
I don't know about Russia's retaliatory capabilities against countries that don't border them but Putin will likely try something.
Putin today announced the sale of gas for rubles to unfriendly countries.

True. And it also applies to existing contracts that actually estate the payment in USD or Euro. The obvious target is Germany.

As strategy to support the "rubble", mean the ruble is fine. The only slight little problem is that it completely contravenes the international law - and yes, I know that Putin does not care much about it and thinks he is the law and all that, but as silly as it may seem, it does create very serious concerns on his Russia as a trading partner, as contracts from now on are wet paper (or wet digitally signed PDFs).

That is a massive increase of risk to any trade conducted with his Russia, which usually mean that prices of products coming from Russia will be paid at a discount and investments are likely to carry a massive risk premium.

Do not be fooled, there is a price to pay for this and it is hefty and long lasting.
It is interesting that you remembered international law now, and not a month ago, when the currency accounts of the Central Bank of Russia in dollars and euros were frozen, as well as after the parade of economic sanctions and the withdrawal of many companies from Russia with the refusal of their obligations. There is no more international law. And yes - this is primarily a blow to Germany, as the locomotive of the European Union. Now Germany will support the Russian ruble, or plunge into medieval darkness without heat and light. Perhaps the decision of the UK to leave the European Union was wise, because the fate of the European Union is very vague, it is likely to face an inglorious collapse into small European states - tolerant of refugees, homosexuals and decarbonized. Europe will get what it wanted and what it deserved.

West should just stop ALL business with Russia, confiscate assets of all Russian citizens, strip them of any western citizenships, expel them back to Russia, and close its borders to Russian citizens.
be.open
copper member
Activity: 2100
Merit: 903
White Russian
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 24, 2022, 12:43:44 AM
#36
Quote from: paxmao on March 23, 2022, 06:14:10 PM
Quote from: be.open on March 23, 2022, 12:06:16 PM
Quote from: Mometaskers on March 23, 2022, 11:46:22 AM
I don't know about Russia's retaliatory capabilities against countries that don't border them but Putin will likely try something.
Putin today announced the sale of gas for rubles to unfriendly countries.

True. And it also applies to existing contracts that actually estate the payment in USD or Euro. The obvious target is Germany.

As strategy to support the "rubble", mean the ruble is fine. The only slight little problem is that it completely contravenes the international law - and yes, I know that Putin does not care much about it and thinks he is the law and all that, but as silly as it may seem, it does create very serious concerns on his Russia as a trading partner, as contracts from now on are wet paper (or wet digitally signed PDFs).

That is a massive increase of risk to any trade conducted with his Russia, which usually mean that prices of products coming from Russia will be paid at a discount and investments are likely to carry a massive risk premium.

Do not be fooled, there is a price to pay for this and it is hefty and long lasting.
It is interesting that you remembered international law now, and not a month ago, when the currency accounts of the Central Bank of Russia in dollars and euros were frozen, as well as after the parade of economic sanctions and the withdrawal of many companies from Russia with the refusal of their obligations. There is no more international law. And yes - this is primarily a blow to Germany, as the locomotive of the European Union. Now Germany will support the Russian ruble, or plunge into medieval darkness without heat and light. Perhaps the decision of the UK to leave the European Union was wise, because the fate of the European Union is very vague, it is likely to face an inglorious collapse into small European states - tolerant of refugees and decarbonized. Europe will get what it wanted and what it deserved.
paxmao
legendary
Activity: 2254
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Do not die for Putin
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 23, 2022, 06:14:10 PM
#35
Quote from: be.open on March 23, 2022, 12:06:16 PM
Quote from: Mometaskers on March 23, 2022, 11:46:22 AM
I don't know about Russia's retaliatory capabilities against countries that don't border them but Putin will likely try something.
Putin today announced the sale of gas for rubles to unfriendly countries.

True. And it also applies to existing contracts that actually estate the payment in USD or Euro. The obvious target is Germany.

As strategy to support the "rubble", mean the ruble is fine. The only slight little problem is that it completely contravenes the international law - and yes, I know that Putin does not care much about it and thinks he is the law and all that, but as silly as it may seem, it does create very serious concerns on his Russia as a trading partner, as contracts from now on are wet paper (or wet digitally signed PDFs).

That is a massive increase of risk to any trade conducted with his Russia, which usually mean that prices of products coming from Russia will be paid at a discount and investments are likely to carry a massive risk premium.

Do not be fooled, there is a price to pay for this and it is hefty and long lasting.
be.open
copper member
Activity: 2100
Merit: 903
White Russian
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 23, 2022, 12:06:16 PM
#34
Quote from: Mometaskers on March 23, 2022, 11:46:22 AM
I don't know about Russia's retaliatory capabilities against countries that don't border them but Putin will likely try something.
Putin today announced the sale of gas for rubles to unfriendly countries.
Mometaskers
hero member
Activity: 1764
Merit: 584
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 23, 2022, 11:46:22 AM
#33
Autocrats don't give a fuck and will retaliate if they can at any perceived transgressions, take for example many developing countries' late travel ban against China coz they don't want to hurt Wi Ni Po's feelings. I don't know about Russia's retaliatory capabilities against countries that don't border them but Putin will likely try something.
Quote from: be.open on March 23, 2022, 04:46:30 AM
Quote from: Tash on March 09, 2022, 08:35:57 AM

Joe the true Politician
https://twitter.com/Chardwa13/status/1501351989573160960
And here's something really special on Biden's instagram - his congratulations to the people of Iran on the new year (Nowruz) lol. It looks a little ridiculous, but what can you do just to annoy the Russians. Remind me which one of them is a professional comedian - Zelensky or Biden? Biden's jokes seem definitely funnier to me lately. Grin

I found him funny in the way I find fart jokes funny. You don't want to laugh but it just comes out.
be.open
copper member
Activity: 2100
Merit: 903
White Russian
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 23, 2022, 04:46:30 AM
#32
Quote from: Tash on March 09, 2022, 08:35:57 AM

Joe the true Politician
https://twitter.com/Chardwa13/status/1501351989573160960
And here's something really special on Biden's instagram - his congratulations to the people of Iran on the new year (Nowruz) lol. It looks a little ridiculous, but what can you do just to annoy the Russians. Remind me which one of them is a professional comedian - Zelensky or Biden? Biden's jokes seem definitely funnier to me lately. Grin
KingScorpio
sr. member
Activity: 1470
Merit: 325
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 21, 2022, 10:47:26 PM
#31
Quote from: paxmao on March 05, 2022, 06:22:24 PM
Putin is trying to make economic sanctions an equivalent to a declaration of war. Why this is not true:

- An economic sanction does not kill people (not directly nor quickly).
- Economic sanctions mean simply that other countries do not want to trade with you. That is not fighting, is simply a effect of failing to have a successful relation with the international community.
- Economic sanctions are reversible. It is Putin's hand to take the steps to come back into the international community.



but they are, there was no just judgment over ukraine's Donbass Genocide. the west treats nonwestern powers always like villains no matter what.

if putin would have been a jew perhaps the western media would listen when he reminded on donbass violence for 8 years, now it escalated to a full fledged war in an attempt to end the violence
be.open
copper member
Activity: 2100
Merit: 903
White Russian
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 21, 2022, 10:30:33 PM
#30
Quote from: paxmao on March 06, 2022, 08:08:24 PM
You obviously do not understand what is legally a war..
Legally, strictly speaking, the last war was declared by Russia to Japan in 1945 (and by the way, it has not yet been completed, since a peace treaty has not been signed). All other armed conflicts on the planet after that did not have and do not have the status of war.
PrimeNumber7
copper member
Activity: 1624
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Amazon Prime Member #7
Re: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration
March 09, 2022, 12:06:15 PM
#29
Quote from: Etranger on March 08, 2022, 03:25:41 PM
Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on March 08, 2022, 03:00:23 PM

Putin is clearly trying to talk the West out of continuing to impose sanctions.


Maybe he should try to withdraw his troops from Ukraine? Then the sanctions will cease to apply.
Yea, you are probably right. Most of the sanctions will likely be removed if Putin were to withdraw from Ukraine. Although damage has already been done and some will seek to not trade with Russia after the war.

Putin is clearly trying to intimidate the west into removing the sanctions without ending the war. I would conclude that this means the sanctions are likely working, and Putin is afraid of the oligarks in his country.
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