Economic sanctions are not a war declaration - page 5.

Etranger

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Quote from: ololajulo on March 09, 2022, 08:54:01 AM

$470 billions of Russia reserve had been freezed and banned other countries' Financial system from transacting with Russian banks. They also target Russian billionaires finance outside the country. This restrictions will cripple the economic situation and is one of the highest level of economic sanctions any country can ever have. More so, this restrictions will not be removed soon even if the war stops. They are also war strategies maybe not war itself, such economic constraint will starve war funding and give the other country leverage to ride on.

We will pray for it. Maybe this restrictions finaly will force them to open their eyes and withdraw their troops from our Ukraine.

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$470 billions of Russia reserve had been freezed and banned other countries' Financial system from transacting with Russian banks. They also target Russian billionaires finance outside the country. This restrictions will cripple the economic situation and is one of the highest level of economic sanctions any country can ever have. More so, this restrictions will not be removed soon even if the war stops. They are also war strategies maybe not war itself, such economic constraint will starve war funding and give the other country leverage to ride on.

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Joe the true Politician
https://twitter.com/Chardwa13/status/1501351989573160960

paxmao

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Quote from: G.Seed on March 08, 2022, 03:52:37 PM

Quote

Your argument makes me understand why do you side with Putin: You do not understand the difference between brute force and reason.

USA nuclear attack against civilians in Hiroshima, Nagasaki ?
What about agent orange usage in Vietnam ?
Was it brute force or reason ?
And when USA lied about mass destruction weapon in Iraq and they used depleted uranium on them ?
Was it brute force or reason ?
And ISRAEL, your fucking dear ISRAEL, brute force or reason ?

Where are the economic sanctions against USA, you fucking hypocrites ?

In my view, H & N - the countries had been at war for years. The point was to avoid even more dead, so there is a (twisted) reason to it. The fact that the bombs were used on civilian targets would today be considered a war crime and it is not the only one. If you read about other attacks on the second world war, the incendiaries dropped in Hamburg did not receive as much attention, yet they caused a similar number of victims.

Agent Orange in Vietnam - Force. A war crime.

USA lying on WMD - neither, it was just another lie to justify grabbing oil. All wars require a moral "cover up" or else people would not be willing to fight. Is the same with most extremist organisations, they have to convince others to die for them promising stuff or infuriating them. The war itself was brute force and based merely on commercial considerations.

Please notice that only UK, Spain and Portugal supported USA war in Irak - it was an illegal war.

Israel expansion is force as well. I am afraid that the reason does not assist any of the sides (IMHO).

Quote

Where are the economic sanctions against USA, you fucking hypocrites ?

USA is not threating Europe. Europe is not committing acts of war against Putin's Russia. To decide that sanctions are acts of war is not reason, just a cynic justification similar to "they have WMD".

Raymond Gary

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Economic sanctions cannot be seen as war in my view , hence it a warning and a deplomatic way to draw the attention and weaken the strength of those engaged in a war economically and to see if they could change there mindset

TheNineClub

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Quote from: paxmao on March 05, 2022, 06:22:24 PM

Putin is trying to make economic sanctions an equivalent to a declaration of war. Why this is not true:

- An economic sanction does not kill people (not directly nor quickly).
- Economic sanctions mean simply that other countries do not want to trade with you. That is not fighting, is simply a effect of failing to have a successful relation with the international community.
- Economic sanctions are reversible. It is Putin's hand to take the steps to come back into the international community.

Yes, to us reasonable people, if you put it as much as objectively possible, that is definitely not a declaration of war. However, when you try to justify your own decisions you tend to go to the lowest possible threshold to legitimize your actions. In Putin's eyes (maybe fake but at least the rhetoric is like that) this is not aggression but a special military operation where they are not at fault and therefore there's no need for the west sanctions. It's complete crap, but that's the idea behind it.

G.Seed

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Quote

Your argument makes me understand why do you side with Putin: You do not understand the difference between brute force and reason.

USA nuclear attack against civilians in Hiroshima, Nagasaki ?
What about agent orange usage in Vietnam ?
Was it brute force or reason ?
And when USA lied about mass destruction weapon in Iraq and they used depleted uranium on them ?
Was it brute force or reason ?
And ISRAEL, your fucking dear ISRAEL, brute force or reason ?

Where are the economic sanctions against USA, you fucking hypocrites ?

paxmao

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on March 08, 2022, 03:00:23 PM

..

Quote from: paxmao on March 07, 2022, 04:41:47 PM

Your argument makes me understand why do you side with Putin:

That is a ridiculous assertion.

That's a void statement.

Etranger

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on March 08, 2022, 03:00:23 PM

Putin is clearly trying to talk the West out of continuing to impose sanctions.

Maybe he should try to withdraw his troops from Ukraine? Then the sanctions will cease to apply.

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Quote from: af_newbie on March 07, 2022, 12:37:33 AM

That is why NATO should make it clear to him to stop bombing Ukraine or they will start bombing these nice malls in Moscow, and his bunkers in the Ural and Altai mountains.

They should talk from the position of power not weakness. This is the only language Putin understands.

We will see if the sanctions work. They are clearly impacting the Russian economy, and more importantly, the banking system in Russia. Without a stable banking system, Putin may have difficulty procuring additional weapons, munitions, and supplies from within his own country. If the west were to impose a Russian Oil embargo and/or decide to stop buying Russian oil/gas, Russia would lose its ability to continue to finance the war.

Putin is clearly trying to talk the West out of continuing to impose sanctions.

Quote from: paxmao on March 07, 2022, 04:41:47 PM

Your argument makes me understand why do you side with Putin:

That is a ridiculous assertion.

paxmao

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on March 06, 2022, 11:38:09 PM

Quote from: paxmao on March 06, 2022, 08:08:24 PM

You obviously do not understand what is legally a war, and what is worse, you have not bothered to look for any conventional definition of act of war. A word of advice, sometimes using Google is fine.

War -

Quote

a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country.

Acts of war examples:

Quote

In 1974, General Assembly Resolution 3314 defined and gave some examples of aggression. Article 3 gave, as examples, invasion or attack by armed forces of a state, military occupation, bombardment against the territory of another state, blockade of ports or coasts, action of a state in allowing its territory to be used for preparing an act of aggression against a third state, and the sending of armed bands, groups, irregulars, or mercenaries to carry out acts of armed force against another state...

The "legal" term of "war" is meaningless. If the country on the receiving end of sanctions decides that the sanctions make an escalation necessary, they will escalate.

If Putin decides to respond to sanctions by bombing the US, there is nothing stopping him from doing so, except the consequences of said bombings to Russia. Said consequences would include retaliation on the part of the US and its allies. If Russia were to win such a conflict, there would be no mechanism in place to punish Russia for the escalation.

It is unlikely that Russia would win a war against the US, so Putin is unlikely to escalate against NATO. Putin is talking tough because he is hoping that NATO countries do not want to go to war, and will be willing to back down from sanctions under the threat of war.

On that, sure Putin can decide to ~~suicide~~ bomb US or NATO, but the matter here is that he is considering sanctions as an act of war, and they are not.

Your argument makes me understand why do you side with Putin: You do not understand the difference between brute force and reason. Neither does Putin and that is why he could not conceive that Ukrainians would resist, Europe would go medieval on sanctions on his ass nor EU countries supplying weapons within days - ultimately, this could be the last lessons he learns.

Well, that and also not to send troops without knowing where the fuck are they going.

cmg777

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Quote from: Hetadrop on March 06, 2022, 10:19:01 PM

Quote from: cmg777 on March 06, 2022, 08:35:08 PM

As an American I can give two shits about this war in the Ukraine.

So in short it is these people that have caused war/woe onto me and the American people. The corporate/governmental elite and their paid cronies.

Looks like you are a bit off here, just because you are not affected?
Putin is a rude killer and he's responsible for killing civilians: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-irpin-civilian-death.html

You seem to behave like a spoonfed child. Cheesy

And you seem to be spoonfed by our mainstream media overlords by your post. Hope they tell you to buy/sell crypto at the wrong time cuz I'm always buying/selling

. Sure I'm mildly affected by the further gas prices and actually more so by the food they are producing but the former was because our moronic senile president refuses to increase production domestically and would rather deal with his Venezuelan counterpart to get more oil/gas. I'll give you this if Putin invades a country outside of Ukraine then I might be an MSM cheerleader against him and his regime.

Tash

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Russia could not care if they can buy a BMW or Gucci, they just get some junk form China or India.
Europe importing 40% of Gas, 50% of oil, weath... from Russia. Without the import prices for commodities will be sky high, hyperinflataion, rock bottom property prices chaos and suffering. The corrupt politicians know full well what they do, nobody is that stupit and cuts of his essentials.
Politicians are nothing but human dirt, a cult.

af_newbie

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on March 06, 2022, 11:38:09 PM

Quote from: paxmao on March 06, 2022, 08:08:24 PM

You obviously do not understand what is legally a war, and what is worse, you have not bothered to look for any conventional definition of act of war. A word of advice, sometimes using Google is fine.

War -

Quote

a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country.

Acts of war examples:

Quote

In 1974, General Assembly Resolution 3314 defined and gave some examples of aggression. Article 3 gave, as examples, invasion or attack by armed forces of a state, military occupation, bombardment against the territory of another state, blockade of ports or coasts, action of a state in allowing its territory to be used for preparing an act of aggression against a third state, and the sending of armed bands, groups, irregulars, or mercenaries to carry out acts of armed force against another state...

The "legal" term of "war" is meaningless. If the country on the receiving end of sanctions decides that the sanctions make an escalation necessary, they will escalate.

If Putin decides to respond to sanctions by bombing the US, there is nothing stopping him from doing so, except the consequences of said bombings to Russia. Said consequences would include retaliation on the part of the US and its allies. If Russia were to win such a conflict, there would be no mechanism in place to punish Russia for the escalation.

It is unlikely that Russia would win a war against the US, so Putin is unlikely to escalate against NATO. Putin is talking tough because he is hoping that NATO countries do not want to go to war, and will be willing to back down from sanctions under the threat of war.

That is why NATO should make it clear to him to stop bombing Ukraine or they will start bombing these nice malls in Moscow, and his bunkers in the Ural and Altai mountains.

They should talk from the position of power not weakness. This is the only language Putin understands.

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Quote from: paxmao on March 06, 2022, 08:08:24 PM

You obviously do not understand what is legally a war, and what is worse, you have not bothered to look for any conventional definition of act of war. A word of advice, sometimes using Google is fine.

War -

Quote

a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country.

Acts of war examples:

Quote

In 1974, General Assembly Resolution 3314 defined and gave some examples of aggression. Article 3 gave, as examples, invasion or attack by armed forces of a state, military occupation, bombardment against the territory of another state, blockade of ports or coasts, action of a state in allowing its territory to be used for preparing an act of aggression against a third state, and the sending of armed bands, groups, irregulars, or mercenaries to carry out acts of armed force against another state...

The "legal" term of "war" is meaningless. If the country on the receiving end of sanctions decides that the sanctions make an escalation necessary, they will escalate.

If Putin decides to respond to sanctions by bombing the US, there is nothing stopping him from doing so, except the consequences of said bombings to Russia. Said consequences would include retaliation on the part of the US and its allies. If Russia were to win such a conflict, there would be no mechanism in place to punish Russia for the escalation.

It is unlikely that Russia would win a war against the US, so Putin is unlikely to escalate against NATO. Putin is talking tough because he is hoping that NATO countries do not want to go to war, and will be willing to back down from sanctions under the threat of war.

Hetadrop

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Quote from: cmg777 on March 06, 2022, 08:35:08 PM

As an American I can give two shits about this war in the Ukraine.

So in short it is these people that have caused war/woe onto me and the American people. The corporate/governmental elite and their paid cronies.

Looks like you are a bit off here, just because you are not affected?
Putin is a rude killer and he's responsible for killing civilians: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-irpin-civilian-death.html

You seem to behave like a spoonfed child. Cheesy

af_newbie

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Putin's existence is a declaration of war.

Bomb these Soviet dictators and their sympathizers to the Stone Age. Disarm them and make them pay.

This imperialistic ideology needs to die. Break up Russia into smaller countries.

suchmoon

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Quote from: cmg777 on March 06, 2022, 08:35:08 PM

As an American I can give two shits about this war in the Ukraine. From what I've understood, the Balkans have always been contentious region of the world ripe for war.

At least learn to stereotype correctly... Balkans Roll Eyes

"all those youroopeeyans look the same to me" LOL

cmg777

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As an American I can give two shits about this war in the Ukraine. From what I've understood, the Balkans have always been contentious region of the world ripe for war. So here are my two cents on all of this:

So in short it is these people that have caused war/woe onto me and the American people. The corporate/governmental elite and their paid cronies.

libertasbella

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Anything's a declaration of war if you want to declare war.

Topic: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration - page 5. (Read 891 times)