Economic sanctions are not a war declaration - page 5.

TheNineClub

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Quote from: paxmao on March 05, 2022, 05:22:24 PM

Putin is trying to make economic sanctions an equivalent to a declaration of war. Why this is not true:

- An economic sanction does not kill people (not directly nor quickly).
- Economic sanctions mean simply that other countries do not want to trade with you. That is not fighting, is simply a effect of failing to have a successful relation with the international community.
- Economic sanctions are reversible. It is Putin's hand to take the steps to come back into the international community.

Yes, to us reasonable people, if you put it as much as objectively possible, that is definitely not a declaration of war. However, when you try to justify your own decisions you tend to go to the lowest possible threshold to legitimize your actions. In Putin's eyes (maybe fake but at least the rhetoric is like that) this is not aggression but a special military operation where they are not at fault and therefore there's no need for the west sanctions. It's complete crap, but that's the idea behind it.

G.Seed

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Quote

Your argument makes me understand why do you side with Putin: You do not understand the difference between brute force and reason.

USA nuclear attack against civilians in Hiroshima, Nagasaki ?
What about agent orange usage in Vietnam ?
Was it brute force or reason ?
And when USA lied about mass destruction weapon in Iraq and they used depleted uranium on them ?
Was it brute force or reason ?
And ISRAEL, your fucking dear ISRAEL, brute force or reason ?

Where are the economic sanctions against USA, you fucking hypocrites ?

paxmao

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on March 08, 2022, 02:00:23 PM

..

Quote from: paxmao on March 07, 2022, 03:41:47 PM

Your argument makes me understand why do you side with Putin:

That is a ridiculous assertion.

That's a void statement.

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on March 08, 2022, 02:00:23 PM

Putin is clearly trying to talk the West out of continuing to impose sanctions.

Maybe he should try to withdraw his troops from Ukraine? Then the sanctions will cease to apply.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: ?? on ??

That is why NATO should make it clear to him to stop bombing Ukraine or they will start bombing these nice malls in Moscow, and his bunkers in the Ural and Altai mountains.

They should talk from the position of power not weakness. This is the only language Putin understands.

We will see if the sanctions work. They are clearly impacting the Russian economy, and more importantly, the banking system in Russia. Without a stable banking system, Putin may have difficulty procuring additional weapons, munitions, and supplies from within his own country. If the west were to impose a Russian Oil embargo and/or decide to stop buying Russian oil/gas, Russia would lose its ability to continue to finance the war.

Putin is clearly trying to talk the West out of continuing to impose sanctions.

Quote from: paxmao on March 07, 2022, 03:41:47 PM

Your argument makes me understand why do you side with Putin:

That is a ridiculous assertion.

paxmao

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on March 06, 2022, 10:38:09 PM

Quote from: paxmao on March 06, 2022, 07:08:24 PM

You obviously do not understand what is legally a war, and what is worse, you have not bothered to look for any conventional definition of act of war. A word of advice, sometimes using Google is fine.

War -

Quote

a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country.

Acts of war examples:

Quote

In 1974, General Assembly Resolution 3314 defined and gave some examples of aggression. Article 3 gave, as examples, invasion or attack by armed forces of a state, military occupation, bombardment against the territory of another state, blockade of ports or coasts, action of a state in allowing its territory to be used for preparing an act of aggression against a third state, and the sending of armed bands, groups, irregulars, or mercenaries to carry out acts of armed force against another state...

The "legal" term of "war" is meaningless. If the country on the receiving end of sanctions decides that the sanctions make an escalation necessary, they will escalate.

If Putin decides to respond to sanctions by bombing the US, there is nothing stopping him from doing so, except the consequences of said bombings to Russia. Said consequences would include retaliation on the part of the US and its allies. If Russia were to win such a conflict, there would be no mechanism in place to punish Russia for the escalation.

It is unlikely that Russia would win a war against the US, so Putin is unlikely to escalate against NATO. Putin is talking tough because he is hoping that NATO countries do not want to go to war, and will be willing to back down from sanctions under the threat of war.

On that, sure Putin can decide to ~~suicide~~ bomb US or NATO, but the matter here is that he is considering sanctions as an act of war, and they are not.

Your argument makes me understand why do you side with Putin: You do not understand the difference between brute force and reason. Neither does Putin and that is why he could not conceive that Ukrainians would resist, Europe would go medieval on sanctions on his ass nor EU countries supplying weapons within days - ultimately, this could be the last lessons he learns.

Well, that and also not to send troops without knowing where the fuck are they going.

cmg777

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Quote from: Hetadrop on March 06, 2022, 09:19:01 PM

Quote from: cmg777 on March 06, 2022, 07:35:08 PM

As an American I can give two shits about this war in the Ukraine.

So in short it is these people that have caused war/woe onto me and the American people. The corporate/governmental elite and their paid cronies.

Looks like you are a bit off here, just because you are not affected?
Putin is a rude killer and he's responsible for killing civilians: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-irpin-civilian-death.html

You seem to behave like a spoonfed child. Cheesy

And you seem to be spoonfed by our mainstream media overlords by your post. Hope they tell you to buy/sell crypto at the wrong time cuz I'm always buying/selling

. Sure I'm mildly affected by the further gas prices and actually more so by the food they are producing but the former was because our moronic senile president refuses to increase production domestically and would rather deal with his Venezuelan counterpart to get more oil/gas. I'll give you this if Putin invades a country outside of Ukraine then I might be an MSM cheerleader against him and his regime.

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Russia could not care if they can buy a BMW or Gucci, they just get some junk form China or India.
Europe importing 40% of Gas, 50% of oil, weath... from Russia. Without the import prices for commodities will be sky high, hyperinflataion, rock bottom property prices chaos and suffering. The corrupt politicians know full well what they do, nobody is that stupit and cuts of his essentials.
Politicians are nothing but human dirt, a cult.

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Quote from: paxmao on March 06, 2022, 07:08:24 PM

You obviously do not understand what is legally a war, and what is worse, you have not bothered to look for any conventional definition of act of war. A word of advice, sometimes using Google is fine.

War -

Quote

a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country.

Acts of war examples:

Quote

In 1974, General Assembly Resolution 3314 defined and gave some examples of aggression. Article 3 gave, as examples, invasion or attack by armed forces of a state, military occupation, bombardment against the territory of another state, blockade of ports or coasts, action of a state in allowing its territory to be used for preparing an act of aggression against a third state, and the sending of armed bands, groups, irregulars, or mercenaries to carry out acts of armed force against another state...

The "legal" term of "war" is meaningless. If the country on the receiving end of sanctions decides that the sanctions make an escalation necessary, they will escalate.

If Putin decides to respond to sanctions by bombing the US, there is nothing stopping him from doing so, except the consequences of said bombings to Russia. Said consequences would include retaliation on the part of the US and its allies. If Russia were to win such a conflict, there would be no mechanism in place to punish Russia for the escalation.

It is unlikely that Russia would win a war against the US, so Putin is unlikely to escalate against NATO. Putin is talking tough because he is hoping that NATO countries do not want to go to war, and will be willing to back down from sanctions under the threat of war.

Hetadrop

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Quote from: cmg777 on March 06, 2022, 07:35:08 PM

As an American I can give two shits about this war in the Ukraine.

So in short it is these people that have caused war/woe onto me and the American people. The corporate/governmental elite and their paid cronies.

Looks like you are a bit off here, just because you are not affected?
Putin is a rude killer and he's responsible for killing civilians: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-irpin-civilian-death.html

You seem to behave like a spoonfed child. Cheesy

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Quote from: cmg777 on March 06, 2022, 07:35:08 PM

As an American I can give two shits about this war in the Ukraine. From what I've understood, the Balkans have always been contentious region of the world ripe for war.

At least learn to stereotype correctly... Balkans Roll Eyes

"all those youroopeeyans look the same to me" LOL

cmg777

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As an American I can give two shits about this war in the Ukraine. From what I've understood, the Balkans have always been contentious region of the world ripe for war. So here are my two cents on all of this:

So in short it is these people that have caused war/woe onto me and the American people. The corporate/governmental elite and their paid cronies.

libertasbella

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Anything's a declaration of war if you want to declare war.

paxmao

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on March 06, 2022, 05:18:44 PM

Quote from: paxmao on March 05, 2022, 05:22:24 PM

Putin is trying to make economic sanctions an equivalent to a declaration of war. Why this is not true:

- An economic sanction does not kill people (not directly nor quickly).
- Economic sanctions mean simply that other countries do not want to trade with you. That is not fighting, is simply a effect of failing to have a successful relation with the international community.
- Economic sanctions are reversible. It is Putin's hand to take the steps to come back into the international community.

Economic sanctions are an act of war. Their intentions are to coerce those who the sanctions are being imposed on to change their ways.

Obviously, sanctions are not the same as bombing a country or shooting at a country's military. Going from sanctions to actual violence is a major escalation.

You obviously do not understand what is legally a war, and what is worse, you have not bothered to look for any conventional definition of act of war. A word of advice, sometimes using Google is fine.

War -

Quote from: KingScorpio on March 06, 2022, 11:16:40 AM

...

he is a leader of a nazi regime,
...

Oh, just drop it my, you are making a fool of yourself trying this over and over.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: paxmao on March 05, 2022, 05:22:24 PM

Putin is trying to make economic sanctions an equivalent to a declaration of war. Why this is not true:

- An economic sanction does not kill people (not directly nor quickly).
- Economic sanctions mean simply that other countries do not want to trade with you. That is not fighting, is simply a effect of failing to have a successful relation with the international community.
- Economic sanctions are reversible. It is Putin's hand to take the steps to come back into the international community.

Economic sanctions are an act of war. Their intentions are to coerce those who the sanctions are being imposed on to change their ways.

Obviously, sanctions are not the same as bombing a country or shooting at a country's military. Going from sanctions to actual violence is a major escalation.

Etranger

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Quote from: KingScorpio on March 06, 2022, 11:16:40 AM

he is a leader of a nazi regime,

it is how it is.

ukranian nazis supporting a jew, discriminating against the russians in ukraine and commiting an economic and ethnic genocide. preventing them from declaring independence,

they try to force the 40% russians living in ukraine into the ukranian nazi system,

ukraine is not run like switzerland its run like nazi germany with large chunks of poland still part of it,

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

For those, who don`t speak russian, this image says "The Israeli Ambassador to Russia has been summoned to the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Moscow accuses Jerusalem of supporting the Nazis". The whole logic of these people in two sentences.

KingScorpio

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Quote from: paxmao on March 05, 2022, 05:22:24 PM

Putin is trying to make economic sanctions an equivalent to a declaration of war. Why this is not true:

- An economic sanction does not kill people (not directly nor quickly).
- Economic sanctions mean simply that other countries do not want to trade with you. That is not fighting, is simply a effect of failing to have a successful relation with the international community.
- Economic sanctions are reversible. It is Putin's hand to take the steps to come back into the international community.

is genocide a war declaration?

cause that puts putin in the right.

ukranians where terrorising parts of their population as so called "insurgencies" that live there since 1000 years

Quote from: Gyfts on March 06, 2022, 04:20:01 AM

He also believes Zelenskyy, a jew, is leader of some sort of Nazi regime. His justifications for invasion are mostly not logical. The only reason that makes any sense is he doesn't want a NATO affiliated country near his borders. Understandable, but not worthy of an invasion so he takes the "de-Nazification" approach instead.

he is a leader of a nazi regime,

it is how it is.

ukranian nazis supporting a jew, discriminating against the russians in ukraine and commiting an economic and ethnic genocide. preventing them from declaring independence,

they try to force the 40% russians living in ukraine into the ukranian nazi system,

ukraine is not run like switzerland its run like nazi germany with large chunks of poland still part of it,

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

lumbanrang

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Of course, because sanctions are imposed for an action that is detrimental to a country and this is something that must be done and to give a warning to that country. Economic sanctions will only have a negative impact on the economy of a country in the long term, but will not cause people to die in that country.

Etranger

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Quote from: paxmao on March 05, 2022, 05:22:24 PM

Putin is trying to make economic sanctions an equivalent to a declaration of war. Why this is not true:

- An economic sanction does not kill people (not directly nor quickly).
- Economic sanctions mean simply that other countries do not want to trade with you. That is not fighting, is simply a effect of failing to have a successful relation with the international community.
- Economic sanctions are reversible. It is Putin's hand to take the steps to come back into the international community.

He is trying to submit it as a declaration of war to justify the military invasion, which has already begun and its future continuation. He has always had rhetoric that the West is bad, that it oppresses Russia and prevents it from being a great country. These sanctions are even suitable for him, because they can be used as a further reinforcement of his theses. He does not deceive people completely, he tells them half-truths, distorted causes, conditions and consequences of real facts. And this is much more dangerous, because they can find some factual data, and therefore - to believe in all the other explanations. For all reasonable people economic sanctions are not a war declaration. But the Russian population has been taught to think only within a limited framework that is beneficial to the government, and therefore for them economic sanctions are war declaration. With this in mind they can go and continue to kill Ukrainians.

Gyfts

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He also believes Zelenskyy, a jew, is leader of some sort of Nazi regime. His justifications for invasion are mostly not logical. The only reason that makes any sense is he doesn't want a NATO affiliated country near his borders. Understandable, but not worthy of an invasion so he takes the "de-Nazification" approach instead.

Topic: Economic sanctions are not a war declaration - page 5. (Read 992 times)