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Topic: Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB - page 157. (Read 1061485 times)

legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
[Do the people in your mining group know that you were involved in this withholding attack?

This kind of statement is typically pejorative - and its not been just you.

Who knows for sure if this was an attack (as in the sense of it being willful)?

Block withholding due to a bug in mining code that has now been fixed is one thing, an intentional block withholding attack is another.

Brucexie does not appear to deny the former - the extant narrative/claims suggests that there was a cgminer bug in their kit which got fixed - the time line on this is still a little unclear and it would be helpful if this was clarified.

So far as I can tell there is no evidence (that any one has seen presented so far on this forum) to support that this was willful.

Surely one needs this evidence in order to assess it; otherwise one is guessing.
Not really. Whether it was intentional or not is irrelevant.
They didn't contribute to the pool, that is a fact.
Therefore, they should not benefit from the pool.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
[Do the people in your mining group know that you were involved in this withholding attack?

This kind of statement is typically pejorative - and its not been just you.

Who knows for sure if this was an attack (as in the sense of it being willful).

Block withholding due to a bug in mining code that has now been fixed is one thing, an intentional block withholding attack is another.

Brucexie does not appear to deny the former - the extant narrative/claims suggests that there was a cgminer bug in their kit which got fixed - the time line on this is still a little unclear and it would be helpful if this was clarified.

So far as I can tell there is no evidence (that any one has seen presented so far on this forum) to support that this was willful.

Surely one needs this evidence in order to assess it; otherwise one is guessing.




creating an account just to say that makes me think something very serious and systematic is going on.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
[Do the people in your mining group know that you were involved in this withholding attack?

This kind of statement is typically pejorative - and its not been just you.

Who knows for sure if this was an attack (as in the sense of it being willful)?

Block withholding due to a bug in mining code that has now been fixed is one thing, an intentional block withholding attack is another.

Brucexie does not appear to deny the former - the extant narrative/claims suggests that there was a cgminer bug in their kit which got fixed - the time line on this is still a little unclear and it would be helpful if this was clarified.

So far as I can tell there is no evidence (that any one has seen presented so far on this forum) to support that this was willful.

Surely one needs this evidence in order to assess it; otherwise one is guessing.


legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004
My guess is he's mining at a lot of pools at the same time and withholding blocks. When he finds a block at one pool, he would move all his hashes to that pool to increase his payout percentage. And then release his valid block after 10 minutes or less. This way, he can increase his expected payout.

It wouldn't be hard to catch this if the pool is paying attention.

This attack would not work.  Holding a valid block is dangerous as someone else can mine it first and you get less.  Pointing more power for that short period of time would make little difference. 

Block withholding is mostly done to harm a pool, give it back luck and drive users away.  It is not done for direct profit. 
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
Under Raize's advice I'll give a signature after get approved from my mining group.

Do the people in your mining group know that you were involved in this withholding attack?
donator
Activity: 1654
Merit: 1351
Creator of Litecoin. Cryptocurrency enthusiast.
My guess is he's mining at a lot of pools at the same time and withholding blocks. When he finds a block at one pool, he would move all his hashes to that pool to increase his payout percentage. And then release his valid block after 10 minutes or less. This way, he can increase his expected payout.

It wouldn't be hard to catch this if the pool is paying attention.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1001
Let's not forget if block with holding IS going on, it could be spread out across dozens of different addresses.  Only by comparing the source IPs of the addresses would you see who really owns them.

If I was doing block with holding attacks, I certainly wouldn't put it all on 2 addresses...

M
newbie
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
Actions speak LOUDER then WORDS and Whiz's actions speak for them self! TRUST EARNED THROUGH Years OF HARD WORK that nobody asked for? It was FREELY GIVING!!That's something you can't put a price on and be taught and bought with because it comes from THE HEART! DOING as you SAY without blinking a EYE!Or having to Think about it !! Just like your actions speak for you? Maybe you should of followed that advise of yours before you stuck your foot in your mouth with veiled threats Cheesy But fortunately it's way to late for that now rofl Your master is going to be asking for that money back now he paid you to broker this scam for him I bet! You blew it:o
That's Exactly what you ARe  aren't you a PR! The TRUTH gets revealed!!They Should of hired a Pr for the Pr  ;)A volunteer Roll Eyes Don't you mean cough cough SOCK PUPPET!!! I can smell that BULLSHIT thousands of miles away like everybody else with half a brain........... Now WE KNoW and have the Answer of WHY CHINA BANS BITCOIN EVERY OTHER DAY? Because of dingle berries like you...................

Dude, you're starting to delve into idol worship, chill out.  Wiz is good at what he does, but he's also fallible.  Remember, his stats site got hacked by a SQL injection error which is basically web security 101.  He's also ignored and/or spurned many credible offers of free help, so there's likely a significant level of arrogance as well.  And before you start painting him as some kind of Bitcoin philanthropist you might consider that he *is* getting paid, just not in the coin of the realm.  Like most geeks, he probably takes a great deal of pride in his work, so his coin is in burnishing his reputation, paid by the adulation and appreciation of others.  Going all groupie mode might be overpaying, though.

That said, do I trust Wiz more than this dude?  Of course.  But chill out, and lets wait for full disclosure of the evidence.

In the interim, I express my trust by continuing to keep my paltry hash power on Eligius, where I believe there's little risk.
hero member
Activity: 1582
Merit: 502
How far back does this discussion start?
What is block withholding?


Just curious, how can you be confident this was a hack?  I mean what is the probability that they've just had bad luck and never got a winning answer but have genuinely been playing fairly?
I've seen the evidence and am convinced (multiple different ways, even) that the miner in question was in fact block withholding.
Whether it was intentional or accidental, I consider irrelevant.
wizkid057 plans to release more information at some point publicly, I'm not sure when.





https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7282674
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
Actions speak LOUDER then WORDS and Whiz's actions speak for them self! TRUST EARNED THROUGH Years OF HARD WORK that nobody asked for? It was FREELY GIVING!!That's something you can't put a price on and be taught and bought with because it comes from THE HEART! DOING as you SAY without blinking a EYE!Or having to Think about it !! Just like your actions speak for you? Maybe you should of followed that advise of yours before you stuck your foot in your mouth with veiled threats Cheesy But fortunately it's way to late for that now rofl Your master is going to be asking for that money back now he paid you to broker this scam for him I bet! You blew it:o
That's Exactly what you ARe  aren't you a PR! The TRUTH gets revealed!!They Should of hired a Pr for the Pr  ;)A volunteer Roll Eyes Don't you mean cough cough SOCK PUPPET!!! I can smell that BULLSHIT thousands of miles away like everybody else with half a brain........... Now WE KNoW and have the Answer of WHY CHINA BANS BITCOIN EVERY OTHER DAY? Because of dingle berries like you...................
Eligius is also not proposting to keep any of that funds for the pools— but do instead return it to the miners who actually earned it, everyone that was mining during the time when the attacker was withholding blocks and were underpaid on account of the attacker being overpaid.

There is a lot of risk of theft by pool operators, but this isn't the form you should expect it to take.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
How far back does this discussion start?
What is block withholding?


Just curious, how can you be confident this was a hack?  I mean what is the probability that they've just had bad luck and never got a winning answer but have genuinely been playing fairly?
I've seen the evidence and am convinced (multiple different ways, even) that the miner in question was in fact block withholding.
Whether it was intentional or accidental, I consider irrelevant.
wizkid057 plans to release more information at some point publicly, I'm not sure when.


full member
Activity: 122
Merit: 100
I Quantum Leap to different worlds when I sleep...
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
Just curious, how can you be confident this was a hack?  I mean what is the probability that they've just had bad luck and never got a winning answer but have genuinely been playing fairly?
I've seen the evidence and am convinced (multiple different ways, even) that the miner in question was in fact block withholding.
Whether it was intentional or accidental, I consider irrelevant.
wizkid057 plans to release more information at some point publicly, I'm not sure when.

For your " demanding 1164%-APY interest", Let me paste my last post here:
...
2. Pay under a installment plan: pay 10% per week, or pay 5% a week, with a extra 5% interest.
I calculate 5%/week as 1264% APY... 1.0552 = 12.642808
Also, any interest beyond inflation is evil.

If I really wants to make eligius "bad", The right way is to use 10 btc to hire a buck of hacker in china to DDOS that website, instead of risking my 200+ BTC on pretending to be a normal miner.
Eligius is pretty much under constant DDoS these days, so you'd just be wasting your 10 BTC.

And he would had had to have planned this in advance -- it would be trivial to find blocks that paid out to Eligius miners that are not in that list.  So either Eligius is attacking you, or you are attacking Eligius.  (And if WK thought that withholding blocks was a good strategy, why would he focus on one user?)

Edit:  Dammit.  I suppose EvilEligius could just assign blocks to another user -- On reflection, there is nothing really to tie the block the finder.
Actually, this is one of the items planned to be improved for GBT2...
But even now, it's possible to store enough share data to prove that the block was found by the same person finding - though I doubt wizkid057 stores that much data Sad

Oh, you give me an idea.
To hire a PR professional to dress up myself as a selfless man, after being trusted, then start to steel 200+ btc from miner.
200+ btc is about 120K USD, which is enough to hire such part-time expert in mid euro, india, or china.
So it is really profitable.
If you are educated to think independently, my word is for your consider.
If wizkid057 wanted to do this, why wouldn't he take more BTC? 200 BTC isn't that much to be worth the risks of theft...
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
I am the owner of 17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc , 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u.

Can you provide us with cryptographic proof of ownership?

No need, because whatever the end of this story is like, The speaking user "Brucexie" on bitcointalk cannot directly get even a cent from it.

17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc and 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u will take all.

You can treat me as a volunteer if you don't believe.

I call "troll". There's not proof that this individual even owns those addresses.

Under Raize's advice I'll give a signature after get approved from my mining group.
You can see that on the main thread in this sub-forum later.
Before that, please treat me as a "volunteer" of 17jk and 1gu8's owner.
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.


I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

We do nearly the same thing.
But does this have anything related with this unpaid issue?

Yes, it does. So the more details you can tell me, the more likely it is that a solution can be found.

What else can I offer?


If your setting is similar, I assume - and please correct me if I'm wrong - that the situation looks as follows:
a) You have a PC on which your wallet(s) is located
b) You switched your miners on and pointed them to BTCGuild
c) You realized that your software wasn't mining correctly
d) You fixed your software
e) You pointed your hardware to Eligius for the first time

So this would lead to the conclusion that you were not pointing your miners to Eligius before a), right?

And: Is the above summary about correct?

And finally: How long before you started to mine with BTCGuild have you used this PC?


For address 1Gu8xxx, it is.
For 17jk, before A, I used to mined on eligius.
The endpoint is not a PC. A automatic image distributor deploy images of the HDD for it every week, so absolutely no virus.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
I am the owner of 17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc , 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u.

Can you provide us with cryptographic proof of ownership?

No need, because whatever the end of this story is like, The speaking user "Brucexie" on bitcointalk cannot directly get even a cent from it.

17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc and 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u will take all.

You can treat me as a volunteer if you don't believe.

I call "troll". There's not proof that this individual even owns those addresses.
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1124
So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.


I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

We do nearly the same thing.
But does this have anything related with this unpaid issue?

Yes, it does. So the more details you can tell me, the more likely it is that a solution can be found.

What else can I offer?


If your setting is similar, I assume - and please correct me if I'm wrong - that the situation looks as follows:
a) You have a PC on which your wallet(s) is located
b) You switched your miners on and pointed them to BTCGuild
c) You realized that your software wasn't mining correctly
d) You fixed your software
e) You pointed your hardware to Eligius for the first time

So this would lead to the conclusion that you were not pointing your miners to Eligius before a), right?

And: Is the above summary about correct?

And finally: How long before you started to mine with BTCGuild have you used this PC?
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.


I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

We do nearly the same thing.
But does this have anything related with this unpaid issue?

Yes, it does. So the more details you can tell me, the more likely it is that a solution can be found.

What else can I offer?
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.


I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

So you are saying that you only mined on eligius AFTER the hardware was fixed, and you were finding blocks and should be paid.

Eligius are saying that you mined with faulty hardware, weren't finding blocks, and therefore shouldn't be paid.

More detailed information would be needed to decide who is right, namely the dates, hashrate, shares and blocks found. GigaVPS has posted some numbers which seem to show that things aren't that bad statistically speaking.



For 1Gu8, it is fresh.
For 17jk, Not really just AFTER, we mined at it before, we start mining at that pool for a longer time and get paid normally. the pool never notify us for this, if there's really some issue.
After we reviewed the code check-in log, we found that this failure on code mostly impact the BTCguild part and another small pool's part, Eligius was also impacted just by some small testing rig running on it (several T maybe).
When we found that the payment was frozen at eligius, we get back to review the block list, we found nothing on 17jk's before.


legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1124
So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.


I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

We do nearly the same thing.
But does this have anything related with this unpaid issue?

Yes, it does. So the more details you can tell me, the more likely it is that a solution can be found.
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