Embedable Javascript Bitcoin miner for your website - page 10.

1bitc0inplz

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Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Thanks everyone for all the great feedback.

We appreciate all the constructive conversation, as that is really helping us find the direction of this site. We understand that it isn't perfect, that is the reason we are not worrying about fees at first.

We are proud to announce that we are rolling out our registration emails. This should be arriving in your inbox starting now, and over the course of the next several hours. We had a lot of sign-ups, so we are having to span the emails out. Please be patient as we get all this mail delivered.

Once you get your registration email, you should have instructions for how to activate your account. Once activated you will be able to set your wallet id.

Actually, that is about all the current control panel does. We understand that you all will want to see stats about the performance of your site. We do too, and we are working on that. Additions will be coming quickly, but we wanted to get you guys something sooner.

We really do appreciate everyone helping us take part in this "beta", keep up the feedback... we are nowhere near done with this site yet Cheesy

Steve

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1008

I think the future of this is to develop a miner that is easy for a person to install and that websites could interface with...a user would have a choice between ads, mining or direct payment for access or content. A given website would stipulate a number of hash computations required for access and the miner would use spare cycles and run overnight to try and satisfy the requirement of all websites the user subscribes to...if the user tries to sign up for more sites than his hardware could possibly handle, it would alert him to that fact. People with efficient GPUs would have a lot more of this currency to spend on website access. But people with less efficient hardware might still use this method to access websites as it might be preferable to a separate billing or ads even if the electricity cost exceeds the value of the bitcoins they mine.

TiagoTiago

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)

Awesome, gonna check it out

gigitrix

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

per day

slush

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1097

Quote from: Turix on May 20, 2011, 06:52:36 PM

Fun statistics time - my Google Nexus S runs at a rate of 43Mhash/day if I just leave it sitting on my websites home page Roll Eyes

Really Mhash?

Edit: Oh, per _day_, I see

Turix

member

Activity: 76

Merit: 10

Fun statistics time - my Google Nexus S runs at a rate of 43Mhash/day if I just leave it sitting on my websites home page Roll Eyes

gigitrix

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Deleted my post then, that wasn't really a "downtime", more of a "blip"

lowentropy

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: ?? on ??

It's down.

Eep

Thanks for the notice, it's back up now.

Dusty

hero member

Activity: 731

Merit: 503

Libertas a calumnia

Awesome idea, and with the upcoming webcl, even better!

AbbydonKrafts

newbie

Activity: 3

Merit: 0

Quote from: 1bitc0inplz on May 20, 2011, 12:42:26 PM

However, I do not currently have a reason to believe that Google would flag this as malware. Because, as best as I know, this does not meet the definition of Malware.... if so, wouldn't Google have flagged Bitcoin.org as a distributor of malware, for having miner downloads on it's homepage?

I ask to provoke questions, and discussion. I've been thinking about this all morning, and as best as I can rationalize, this is not different and an ad server. Even Flash ads can, and do, consume your CPU like their is no tomorrow.

There's a difference between these:

Bitcoin.org Downloads - These are willing participants. Downloading your own client makes perfect sense. It's like participating with BOINC.
Flash Ads - Those things are definitely a bane to all of us, especially the ones that have sound that is always 150% of other embeds. But, they are visible to the visitor, so they know they are there. They can also be disabled by the user. There's also the point of it may be "relevant" to the visitor.
Embedded Miner - This can be deemed non-beneficial to the visitor and only a nuisance. It doesn't provide any extra content to them, but it does use up their CPU. Imagine if many sites implemented it, and a visitor had many tabs open with it running. The visitor wouldn't be gaining anything, but instead wonder they their computer is screaming at them.

I'm definitely interested in the concept, but it would need some extra work to be a little less intrusive. I'm watching the discussion to see how it goes.

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Steve on May 20, 2011, 02:32:49 PM

Quote from: lowentropy on May 20, 2011, 12:36:45 PM

Quote from: Steve on May 20, 2011, 12:28:41 PM

I compared this with the native Bitcoin c++ client's mining...I am getting 4 to 5x the performance with your Javascript miner (running on OSX in the Chrome browser). Can anyone else confirm that (I'm getting about 9Mhash/s in the browser vs less than 2Mhash/s with the bitcoin client)? If it's really the case, that's quite impressive!

Sorry to disappoint, Steve, but our site is just listing hashes per second, so you're probably seeing 9 khps, not 9Mhps Tongue

Unfortunately, javascript computation is rather slow

There is intense discussion of making use of web-based CL to use the graphics card, but no implementation yet.

Oops. So, I worked out some estimates for a website that gets 10,000 hits/day and where people stay on the page an average of 5 min. If I did the numbers correctly, that would be on the order of 0.001 BTC/day (or $0.0065 at current exchange rates). This doesn't seem like very much...how would advertising usually compare with this?

10k views per day would probably net around $1.00 in ad revenue per day. Maybe more if they're mostly unique.

Steve

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1008

Quote from: lowentropy on May 20, 2011, 12:36:45 PM

Quote from: Steve on May 20, 2011, 12:28:41 PM

I compared this with the native Bitcoin c++ client's mining...I am getting 4 to 5x the performance with your Javascript miner (running on OSX in the Chrome browser). Can anyone else confirm that (I'm getting about 9Mhash/s in the browser vs less than 2Mhash/s with the bitcoin client)? If it's really the case, that's quite impressive!

Sorry to disappoint, Steve, but our site is just listing hashes per second, so you're probably seeing 9 khps, not 9Mhps Tongue

Unfortunately, javascript computation is rather slow

There is intense discussion of making use of web-based CL to use the graphics card, but no implementation yet.

Oops. So, I worked out some estimates for a website that gets 10,000 hits/day and where people stay on the page an average of 5 min. If I did the numbers correctly, that would be on the order of 0.001 BTC/day (or $0.0065 at current exchange rates). This doesn't seem like very much...how would advertising usually compare with this?

slush

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1097

Quote from: lowentropy on May 20, 2011, 01:47:43 PM

To further answer this question... our server refreshes the getwork on a fixed interval, and client requests to us return that cached work in addition to a nonce range. The refresh interval and nonce range width are chosen to provide enough work to the clients (which is not hard, since they're pretty slow) and to not exhaust the space of nonces.

We also check the validity of work submissions ourselves before passing them on.

Well, thats good solution. I was just affraid of getwork-per-pageview thing

.

Quote

Currently we're only pinging your pool once or twice per minute. We certainly don't want to abuse the privelege, so let us know if you have any concerns or comments.

Well, if getwork ping are in constant rate (as it obviously is), you can ask for getwork more frequently to avoid stale shares (by crunching hashes from outdated block).

Generally I like the idea and I wish you success. It really can replace stupid flash ads (which is btw also taking one cpu core for itself

. Also consider flash mining; flash itself is compiled and much faster than javascript, so you can incredibly improve hashrate even on CPUs (my Intel Atom can make 500khash/s per one CPU core, instead of 300 hash/s in JS). Newest flash has also limited support for GPU, but from my teoretical knowledge it should be enough to implement GPU mining in browser...

gigabytecoin

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 252

Quote from: AbbydonKrafts on May 20, 2011, 11:45:04 AM

Quote from: 1bitc0inplz on May 20, 2011, 07:43:23 AM

I am a little confused on what the concern is. AFAIK, Google, et al, do not execute Javascript when they visit your website. Am I missing something?

When Google scans a page, it looks at all links, embeds, etc. It will see the script address for the embed. After they decide that the script is taking up too much CPU (user reports and whatnot), they will flag it as malware. Any page that embeds the script will also be flagged as malware. This can lead to things like pre-visit warning dialogs within the browser.

Hiding the script, along with any related content, from bots such as Google is the only way to prevent a page from being flagged.

That is not true as far as I know. I promote websites for a living.

The only way a site can be flagged as malware is if it attempts to load any known drive by downloads to a special malware crawler.

If they deem forcing a user to mine bitcoins malware (which they might) then it would wreak havoc with one's website.

Turix

member

Activity: 76

Merit: 10

Quote from: slush on May 20, 2011, 02:01:26 PM

Firefox 4 on Intel (ehm) Atom

Now there's your problem!

Edit: My Intel Atom N270 with 3Gb member running Ubuntu (Classic gnome, none of that ugly Unity) 11.04 with Firefox Nightly 6a gets between 900-1100 hash/sec.

slush

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1097

Quote from: lowentropy on May 20, 2011, 01:13:08 PM

Quote from: slush on May 20, 2011, 12:58:04 PM

Well, how this works _technically_? I hope that it does NOT call pool for every pageview... So how is work distributed?

We have an independent loop pulling getworks from your pool on a fixed interval, so definitely not on every pageview.

Great.

Quote from: slush on May 20, 2011, 12:58:04 PM

Can you tell me what browser got you 275 hashes? On chrome/safari we get more like 9000 hashes.

Firefox 4 on Intel (ehm) Atom

lowentropy

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: slush on May 20, 2011, 12:58:04 PM

Well, how this works _technically_? I hope that it does NOT call pool for every pageview... So how is work distributed?

To further answer this question... our server refreshes the getwork on a fixed interval, and client requests to us return that cached work in addition to a nonce range. The refresh interval and nonce range width are chosen to provide enough work to the clients (which is not hard, since they're pretty slow) and to not exhaust the space of nonces.

We also check the validity of work submissions ourselves before passing them on.

Currently we're only pinging your pool once or twice per minute. We certainly don't want to abuse the privelege, so let us know if you have any concerns or comments.

Convery

sr. member

Activity: 966

Merit: 254

I do get 3k using 20% extra of the CPU in Firefox 4.0 beta 11 (too lazy to update :3) but it would be nice if that webCL could be implemented :3

lowentropy

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: slush on May 20, 2011, 12:58:04 PM

Well, how this works _technically_? I hope that it does NOT call pool for every pageview... So how is work distributed?

We have an independent loop pulling getworks from your pool on a fixed interval, so definitely not on every pageview.

Quote from: slush on May 20, 2011, 12:58:04 PM

Btw I partially implemented that, too. Many months ago. Then I realized that buying one more ati 5970 is better than managing network of zilions slow workers.

True, it's not a good choice over building a rig. On the other hand, it doesn't cost us or the site operators anything at all, which is hard to argue with

Quote from: slush on May 20, 2011, 12:58:04 PM

Actually bitp.it shows me "275 hashes per second", but I my code (which I don't have anymore, unfortunately) derived from some public sha256 js cruncher made few thousands of hashes per second on same machine...

Can you tell me what browser got you 275 hashes? On chrome/safari we get more like 9000 hashes.

slush

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1097

Well, how this works _technically_? I hope that it does NOT call pool for every pageview... So how is work distributed?

Btw I partially implemented that, too. Many months ago. Then I realized that buying one more ati 5970 is better than managing network of zilions slow workers.

Actually bitp.it shows me "275 hashes per second", but I my code (which I don't have anymore, unfortunately) derived from some public sha256 js cruncher made few thousands of hashes per second on same machine...

Topic: Embedable Javascript Bitcoin miner for your website - page 10. (Read 149641 times)