ETH hardfork incoming. - page 12. | Bitcointalksearch.org

BitUsher

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Quote from: iamnotback on June 20, 2016, 04:51:42 PM

Seems to me that confusion is going to mean an ETH price of less than $0.25 for both forks, so the future relative price of them is not relevant right now.

So it seems this is mostly a shorting game now, to convert your ETH to BTC.

And/or to accumulate more ETH cheaply, in hopes it will someday recover and not go to $0 (i.e. die).

I don't think that it will lose value quickly. At most slowly capitulate because founders , developers, and original die hard investors hold most of the coins so the market cap can , misleadingly , remain high. I have seen many shitcoins last a long time in such circumstances. Where we should be looking is the moment when staff at the ETH foundation start leaving due to not being paid and a rush to switch to PoS - this will be the stronger indicator of problems.

iamnotback

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Quote from: smooth on June 20, 2016, 04:49:31 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on June 20, 2016, 11:43:41 AM

Quote from: onemd on June 20, 2016, 11:41:49 AM

Quote from: sadasa on June 20, 2016, 10:33:35 AM

If I am a miner, I will support the soft fork and freeze the stolen funds. If the DAO holders offer us 50% of the stolen funds, we will do a hard fork.

If the miners can benefit from the hacking like this and the hacker does not benefit, he may think twice before his next hacking.

Other miners will mine more profitably by accepting his offer and thus have a greater hashrate.

Checkmate. Your vote has been economically overridden.

Andreas and Emin getting frantic and grasping for straws:

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/744769932739624960

Isn't there an inter-fork fungibility issue? He can offer miners "higher" payments, but only using coins on the fork that recognizes his ownership. Depending on market value between the forks miners may still be better off on the other one.

Seems to me that confusion is going to mean an ETH price of less than $0.25 for both forks, so the future relative price of them is not relevant right now.

So it seems this is mostly a shorting game now, to convert your ETH to BTC.

And/or to accumulate more ETH cheaply, in hopes it will someday recover and not go to $0 (i.e. die).

smooth

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Quote from: iamnotback on June 20, 2016, 11:43:41 AM

Quote from: onemd on June 20, 2016, 11:41:49 AM

Quote from: sadasa on June 20, 2016, 10:33:35 AM

If I am a miner, I will support the soft fork and freeze the stolen funds. If the DAO holders offer us 50% of the stolen funds, we will do a hard fork.

If the miners can benefit from the hacking like this and the hacker does not benefit, he may think twice before his next hacking.

Other miners will mine more profitably by accepting his offer and thus have a greater hashrate.

Checkmate. Your vote has been economically overridden.

Andreas and Emin getting frantic and grasping for straws:

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/744769932739624960

Isn't there an inter-fork fungibility issue? He can offer miners "higher" payments, but only using coins on the fork that recognizes his ownership. Depending on market value between the forks miners may still be better off on the other one.

iamnotback

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Quote from: paddox on June 20, 2016, 03:08:44 PM

Isn't the hashing power each miner has more important than the number of miners who support a fork? If a miner with a GPU farm comprising 100 GPUs rejects the fork he could have 100 times more influence than a miner with one GPU.

He who makes the most profit can rent the most GPUs.

He who can print tokens out of thin air by draining the DAO, makes the rules.

Sorry n00bs, you've been PWND.

paddox

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Quote from: iamnotback on June 20, 2016, 02:46:16 PM

Quote from: AlphaSun on June 20, 2016, 12:54:20 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on June 20, 2016, 11:43:41 AM

Quote from: onemd on June 20, 2016, 11:41:49 AM

Quote from: sadasa on June 20, 2016, 10:33:35 AM

If I am a miner, I will support the soft fork and freeze the stolen funds. If the DAO holders offer us 50% of the stolen funds, we will do a hard fork.

If the miners can benefit from the hacking like this and the hacker does not benefit, he may think twice before his next hacking.

Other miners will mine more profitably by accepting his offer and thus have a greater hashrate.

Checkmate. Your vote has been economically overridden.

Andreas and Emin getting frantic and grasping for straws:

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/744769932739624960

90% of the miners accepts the soft fork. You can see in the http://ethpool.org/stats/votes. But the result is not final yet.

Try again to understand what I wrote.

The set of miners is open and unbounded. Anyone can decide to become a miner today and accept the hacker's more lucrative offer.

Isn't the hashing power each miner has more important than the number of miners who support a fork? If a miner with a GPU farm comprising 100 GPUs rejects the fork he could have 100 times more influence than a miner with one GPU.

iamnotback

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Redacted reality lol. I would have replaced 'smart' with 'disingenius' (misspelling on purpose).

Quote from: BitUsher on June 20, 2016, 03:03:12 PM

BitUsher

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shyliar

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Quote from: Minecache on June 20, 2016, 02:48:38 PM

Quote from: shyliar on June 20, 2016, 07:58:16 AM

"We come to you with great pleasure to now offer 2000% or 20x return contracts."

I admit my math skills are old and rusty (similar to my physique); but, none of the price break downs seem to give the type of returns initially offered.

It's NOT the DAO attacker.

I think you're right. The DAO attacker most likely has basic math skills.

Minecache

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Vave.com - Crypto Casino

Quote from: shyliar on June 20, 2016, 07:58:16 AM

"We come to you with great pleasure to now offer 2000% or 20x return contracts."

I admit my math skills are old and rusty (similar to my physique); but, none of the price break downs seem to give the type of returns initially offered.

It's NOT the DAO attacker.

iamnotback

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Activity: 336

Merit: 265

Quote from: AlphaSun on June 20, 2016, 12:54:20 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on June 20, 2016, 11:43:41 AM

Quote from: onemd on June 20, 2016, 11:41:49 AM

Quote from: sadasa on June 20, 2016, 10:33:35 AM

If I am a miner, I will support the soft fork and freeze the stolen funds. If the DAO holders offer us 50% of the stolen funds, we will do a hard fork.

If the miners can benefit from the hacking like this and the hacker does not benefit, he may think twice before his next hacking.

Other miners will mine more profitably by accepting his offer and thus have a greater hashrate.

Checkmate. Your vote has been economically overridden.

Andreas and Emin getting frantic and grasping for straws:

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/744769932739624960

90% of the miners accepts the soft fork. You can see in the http://ethpool.org/stats/votes. But the result is not final yet.

Try again to understand what I wrote.

The set of miners is open and unbounded. Anyone can decide to become a miner today and accept the hacker's more lucrative offer.

AlphaSun

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Quote from: iamnotback on June 20, 2016, 11:43:41 AM

Quote from: onemd on June 20, 2016, 11:41:49 AM

Quote from: sadasa on June 20, 2016, 10:33:35 AM

If I am a miner, I will support the soft fork and freeze the stolen funds. If the DAO holders offer us 50% of the stolen funds, we will do a hard fork.

If the miners can benefit from the hacking like this and the hacker does not benefit, he may think twice before his next hacking.

Other miners will mine more profitably by accepting his offer and thus have a greater hashrate.

Checkmate. Your vote has been economically overridden.

Andreas and Emin getting frantic and grasping for straws:

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/744769932739624960

90% of the miners accepts the soft fork. You can see in the http://ethpool.org/stats/votes. But the result is not final yet.

BitUsher

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http://techgenix.com/mathematics-ethereum-hack/

Quote from: John McAfee

If the leaders within the Ethereum community decide on a hard fork course, then the ultimate result, at some point, will be chaos within a system designed from the ground up to bring order.

This is a more generic point we want to make and not just in Ethereums case but with blockchains in general. HF for the express intent of targeting specific contracts, users, accounts or txs and not to fix fundamentals bugs or errors in future txs places a very dangerous precedent and undermines the integrity of the block chain.

If a block chain has to come to this than you may as well fork the code, rename the project , fix the underlying issues , and start over as all the trust has been lost.

In this case Ethereum cannot fix the underlying issues because it is fundamentally insecure by design and repairing these problems would create a radically different project.

BitUsher

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Quote from: onemd on June 20, 2016, 11:41:49 AM

Quote from: sadasa on June 20, 2016, 10:33:35 AM

If I am a miner, I will support the soft fork and freeze the stolen funds. If the DAO holders offer us 50% of the stolen funds, we will do a hard fork.

If the miners can benefit from the hacking like this and the hacker does not benefit, he may think twice before his next hacking.

An attacker can short ETH as this one already has and walked away with 1-4 million USD. Therefore still has a strong incentive to attack all the many security holes and HF and blacklisting does nothing to stop this.

Perhaps one should focus on using secure block chains and not insecure ones ? Just some advice.

bl234st

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Goodbye Ethereum.

iamnotback

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Quote from: onemd on June 20, 2016, 11:41:49 AM

Quote from: sadasa on June 20, 2016, 10:33:35 AM

If I am a miner, I will support the soft fork and freeze the stolen funds. If the DAO holders offer us 50% of the stolen funds, we will do a hard fork.

If the miners can benefit from the hacking like this and the hacker does not benefit, he may think twice before his next hacking.

Other miners will mine more profitably by accepting his offer and thus have a greater hashrate.

Checkmate. Your vote has been economically overridden.

Andreas and Emin getting frantic and grasping for straws:

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/744769932739624960

onemd

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Quote from: sadasa on June 20, 2016, 10:33:35 AM

If I am a miner, I will support the soft fork and freeze the stolen funds. If the DAO holders offer us 50% of the stolen funds, we will do a hard fork.

If the miners can benefit from the hacking like this and the hacker does not benefit, he may think twice before his next hacking.

sadasa

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Activity: 446

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Unpaid signature.

If I am a miner, I will support the soft fork and freeze the stolen funds. If the DAO holders offer us 50% of the stolen funds, we will do a hard fork.

iamnotback

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 265

iamnotback

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Activity: 336

Merit: 265

Quote from: Juhagic on June 20, 2016, 06:48:04 AM

Quote from: iamnotback on June 19, 2016, 01:36:29 PM

Quote from: Zer0Sum on June 19, 2016, 01:12:04 PM

Quote from: anthonydar on June 18, 2016, 03:41:57 PM

So the miners having 51% mining power can decide the fork or any code any way. There is no moral hazard. There is no argument at all. You just need to convince the majority of the miners.

Somebody here actually understands PoW = miners are a "decentralized authority".

Ethereum miners have started voting in some pools on the "soft fork"...
The "soft fork" simply freezes all ETH transfers from the DAO contract (rendering the current "attacks" unprofitable)...
And there are roughly another 25 days left for miners to simply set a flag that locks up the DAO.

Ethpool is voting 99.4% in favor of a "soft fork" here:

http://ethpool.org/stats/votes

Looking at these numbers...
It's very likely miners will subsequently vote in a "hard fork" that will destroy the DAO... and return all ETH to investors.

Ethereum will not suffer from the same paralysis Bitcoin did post-Gox... and still does.

All the FUD you hear about "crypto purity" is from Bitcoin Maximalist Trolls...
Miners acting as a "decentralized authority" on ANY issue is at the heart of PoW.

Did they really act without political control driving their choice?

Everybody has an agenda here. Otherwise why do you post here? Just to save the Ethereum community from being destroyed?

Of course, which was precisely my point.

Perhaps if you read smooth's explanation you will understand that miner's should have no voting power whatsoever, as that is the definition of Nash equilibrium, which provides the security of the concensus. In other words, no one should have enough political clout to break the Nash equilibrium and instigate a vote to fork.

Koamder

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Quote from: shyliar on June 20, 2016, 07:58:16 AM

"We come to you with great pleasure to now offer 2000% or 20x return contracts."

I admit my math skills are old and rusty (similar to my physique); but, none of the price break downs seem to give the type of returns initially offered.

They are the thieves. They want to cheat us again. So I will not trust them. It is as simple as that. They said x20, it is actually x5 or less.

Topic: ETH hardfork incoming. - page 12. (Read 19065 times)