Ethereum: 2nd gen cryptocurrency with contract programming, "dagger" hashing - page 23.

Lloydie

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Quote from: lebing on January 15, 2014, 11:32:14 AM

Quote from: wizzardTim on January 15, 2014, 09:39:21 AM

Who will invest then?

Sadly it seems that not many people will given the current structure. Its only a matter of time until a coin comes along which copies the features they like from ethereum but offers much better investor terms, which would cause ethereum to languish ensuing shortly after. I want this coin to succeed, but as it is its model is similar to Freicoin, with a much stronger disincentive and I expect that the result will be the same and or worse regardless of the feature set. Satoshi was not just an expert in coding, but also an expert in human nature. Absent of the right incentive systems, even the most brilliant currencies will never take hold.

I think perhaps there will be a first year hump. Mining should also be ok. At some point ether adoption might outpace Btc adoption. Then switchover would be profitable. Agree, Satoshi's genius is shining through.

Btw, Ethereum is a brilliant concept. I want to invest in it too.

tgerring

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Hive/Ethereum

Quote from: molecular on January 15, 2014, 04:35:26 PM

Quote from: jimhsu on January 15, 2014, 04:18:09 PM

The maximum number of coins is also irrelevant (aside from technical reasons), particularly as mining output scales linearily with the amount of the initial stake. Does it matter if bitcoin has 21,000,000 or 21,000,000,000 coins, if everything is scaled up similarily?

this. Mining output is 0.5x (x = number of ethers bought initially) per year. Linear inflation.

There's no cap, so where is the 1.2 trillion coming from? I think it's probably based on some assumptions (mainly a certain "x" and a certain percentage of coin loss?)

Yes, from the whitepaper:

Quote

We also theorize that because coins are always lost over time due to carelessness, death, etc, and coin loss can be modeled as a percentage of the total supply per year, that the total currency supply in circulation will in fact eventually stabilize at a value equal to the annual issuance divided by the loss rate (eg. at a loss rate of 1%, once the supply reaches 100 * (0.5X) then 0.5X will be mined and 0.5X lost every year, creating an equilibrium).

molecular

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Quote from: jimhsu on January 15, 2014, 04:18:09 PM

The maximum number of coins is also irrelevant (aside from technical reasons), particularly as mining output scales linearily with the amount of the initial stake. Does it matter if bitcoin has 21,000,000 or 21,000,000,000 coins, if everything is scaled up similarily?

this. Mining output is 0.5x (x = number of ethers bought initially) per year. Linear inflation.

There's no cap, so where is the 1.2 trillion coming from? I think it's probably based on some assumptions (mainly a certain "x" and a certain percentage of coin loss?)

jimhsu

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 264

Guys, stop with the ad hominem attacks. No need to bring in other projects or PoB into this discussion. Though PoB offers certain trust advantages when it comes to migrating from an existing cryptocurrency chain, it is by no means necessary as a means to establish trust in an IPO funding scheme. (In any case, Ethereum will be dependent in BTC at least initially, because, well, the buy-in is in BTC. Duh. Gradually as mining is established, I believe it is the dev's intention to move away from that dependency). Also, a distinction has to be made between a initial PoB buyin (ala XCP) vs. a continuous PoB scheme (ala Iain Stewart); vitalik's comments addressed the latter.

However, the community as a whole would appreciate more details w.r.t. how the "holding entity" is structured, and who exactly controls it. I assume that these details will be forthcoming. Specifically more clarity on:

Quote

We will likely use 3-of-5 multisig to hold our funds. We will be the first cryptocurrency fundraiser that we know of whose exodus address actually has a 3 at the beginning.

is welcome.

The maximum number of coins is also irrelevant (aside from technical reasons), particularly as mining output scales linearily with the amount of the initial stake. Does it matter if bitcoin has 21,000,000 or 21,000,000,000 coins, if everything is scaled up similarily?

BitcoinForumator

legendary

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1.2 Trillion units?

Why not 12 Trillion? It's not that much further. Roll Eyes

miramare

hero member

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Interesting.

I'm still not clear.

Keep watching.

charleshoskinson

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CEO of IOHK

Quote

So... is this question answered now? Can't find it.

I have a lot of meetings and things to address today so sorry that I can't answer every question posted, but this one is important so I'll answer it now. The founders will not receive any share of the bitcoins raised outside of a transparent payroll from the holding entity.

The bitcoins raised will be used to develop the protocol and all other necessary expenses to ensure a positive ROI for investors and the long term health of the Ethereum ecosystem. We will have independent accounting as well as counsel and all expenditures will be disclosed publicly.

In terms of the founder pool, we will be releasing a document specifying the percentages, how it vests, who receives a share and the lock in times.

molecular

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Quote from: Racer8 on January 14, 2014, 05:55:59 PM

Quote from: k99 on January 14, 2014, 04:28:56 PM

Quote from: tgerring on January 14, 2014, 03:04:19 PM

Quote from: k99 on January 14, 2014, 02:15:06 PM

Quote from: charleshoskinson on January 13, 2014, 11:02:32 PM

The buy in will be in the millions and the expected market cap is in the billions.

Charles could you answer the following question?
Who will receive the Bitcoins the fundraisers spent to buy Ether? The founders? The organisation? Will they be locked/destroyed? I assume the founders and/or organisation, but I guess it would be good to clearify that part, just to be transparent. Another option could be to spend it to a group of NGOs (Wikileaks, EEF, ...).

Already answered: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4502149

Sorry did not find any clear answer there. Did you referred to that statemnet from Charles?
"We took this a step further and came up with some innovations in the trust model we think that the community will like. I won't spoil it yet"

Just to be clear. I did not ask for the issuance model, that is clear to me. I was just wondering who exactly will receive the BTC I will spend to buy fundraising Ether.

+1. Question not answered anywhere I can find. Do the founders get 0.25X Ether plus the bitcoins?

So... is this question answered now? Can't find it.

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

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Keep trolling to a minimum, please.

I'm going to fire off an e-mail to Vitalik later today about the distribution -- I hadn't read about it before, but I think a target of 0.5-1.0% of the total ETH supply at year 30 as distributed by mining is the best option.

LeoC

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Activity: 154

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It's not an insult. More like an observation. This guy is constantly smacked with the facts. Even Vitalik himself told him why his system is flawed and cannot be used.
I'd be willing to bet that even if Satoshi came in here and explained to him the same thing that he would still be in denial, whether it be agenda based or psychological.
Two things, either deep down he knows we are right but denies it due to his investment in XCP. Or he truly believes that he is smarter than he really is. Simple really

Come-from-Beyond

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Newbie

Quote from: LeoC on January 15, 2014, 03:06:00 PM

I think that you truly believe that you are smarter than you really are.

Personal insults is the best way to prove that u r much smarter than him...

LeoC

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Activity: 154

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Quote from: panonym on January 15, 2014, 10:18:44 AM

(not wishing to spam, 'just informing I edited my post #139.
A long post about PoB, clarifying confusion about it. For those interested. Slightly off topic.)

Yawn, no one cares. I stopped reading when you said "take Next, instead of having an IPO, you start with PoB as only way to get NXT."
What will you burn? BTC? You proved my point about being dependent, even if it is for a little while. I think that you truly believe that you are smarter than you really are.

nakaone

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: msin on January 15, 2014, 12:32:38 PM

1.2 Trillion units at $.1 Who do I congratulate on the $120Bil valuation? I'll contact CoinmarketCap.

either we do not understand the fundraising or they really need to overthink this

it is an interesting project but don't let end up like ripple

jimhsu

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 264

Update on trying to compile this for windows:

1. Installed go, mingw-x64 (first installed the x32 version, then realized that that was wrong), gcc, make, etc
2. Installed MSYS
3. Installed, configured, and compiled gmp-5.1.3 (currently sitting in MSYS home directory)
4. Linked the compiled gmp-5.1.3 to the compiler w/ LIBRARY_PATH. Se GOPATH to c:\ethereum.
5. Tried to run, and comes up w/ this error:

C:\ethereum>go get -u -t github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum
# github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum
__gmpn_tdiv_qr(0): not defined
__gmpn_get_str(0): not defined
__gmpn_add_n(0): not defined
__gmpn_copyi(0): not defined
__gmpn_mul(0): not defined
__gmpn_gcdext(0): not defined
__gmpn_sub_n(0): not defined
__gmpn_rshift(0): not defined
__gmpn_set_str(0): not defined

td services

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

black swan hunter

Quote from: Ursium on January 15, 2014, 10:35:26 AM

Thanks Vitalik for participating in the thread.

I've posted an Open Letter to the Foundation which I hope you'll have time to take a look at: http://www.ursium.com/open-letter-ethereum-foundation/

Really cool website! I like the layered moving text over the images. I'm looking forward to your insights on cryto assets.

msin

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1.2 Trillion units at $.1 Who do I congratulate on the $120Bil valuation? I'll contact CoinmarketCap.

Ursium

full member

Activity: 149

Merit: 100

Ethereum

Quote from: tgerring on January 15, 2014, 12:22:16 PM

Quote from: LeoC on January 15, 2014, 12:44:12 AM

Quote from: Ursium on January 14, 2014, 10:02:50 PM

For those interested, I've written a quick how-to on how to install Ethereum and test mining! (on OSX)

http://www.ursium.com/install-ethereum-osx-mining/

Hope you like it!

Do one for Windows and I'll be your bitch for a week.

Windows user begging to be someone's bitch. Lulz Grin

I'll get to it tonight if I can resuscitate my windows box - been sitting in a wet shed for ages

tgerring

full member

Activity: 142

Merit: 100

Hive/Ethereum

Quote from: LeoC on January 15, 2014, 12:44:12 AM

Quote from: Ursium on January 14, 2014, 10:02:50 PM

For those interested, I've written a quick how-to on how to install Ethereum and test mining! (on OSX)

http://www.ursium.com/install-ethereum-osx-mining/

Hope you like it!

Do one for Windows and I'll be your bitch for a week.

Windows user begging to be someone's bitch. Lulz Grin

romerun

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1002

Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.

even in MSC sounds less rigged, every one had to send in btc to secure the coins, although JR got to send it to himself,

lebing

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1000

Enabling the maximal migration

Quote from: wizzardTim on January 15, 2014, 09:39:21 AM

Who will invest then?

Sadly it seems that not many people will given the current structure. Its only a matter of time until a coin comes along which copies the features they like from ethereum but offers much better investor terms, which would cause ethereum to languish ensuing shortly after. I want this coin to succeed, but as it is its model is similar to Freicoin, with a much stronger disincentive and I expect that the result will be the same and or worse regardless of the feature set. Satoshi was not just an expert in coding, but also an expert in human nature. Absent of the right incentive systems, even the most brilliant currencies will never take hold.

Topic: Ethereum: 2nd gen cryptocurrency with contract programming, "dagger" hashing - page 23. (Read 84312 times)