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Topic: Ethereum: 2nd gen cryptocurrency with contract programming, "dagger" hashing - page 21. (Read 84330 times)

legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1008
CEO of IOHK
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Founders get both the IPO BTC and a big chunk of the Ether available at launch. While I do feel the need to pay devs for their work, this is a ridiculous amount of money we are talking about.

This is FUD and you know it. Stop spreading it. As clearly stated the founder ether is different from normal ether and the founders receive no bitcoins raised outside of a payroll that is pegged to a fair market rate by independent accounting.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Founders get both the IPO BTC and a big chunk of the Ether available at launch. While I do feel the need to pay devs for their work, this is a ridiculous amount of money we are talking about.
This 19 year old kid will be an overnight millionaire, and that's before we even get to see this entire system in action. Why be greedy about it?
Satoshi did not have an IPO, instead mining it himself over a long period of time. That's true faith in your product right there. It gave him a reason to create value in BTC.
I'd prefer if the IPO were cut entirely and the founders took 30% of all Ether and didn't time lock it. That way if they would have a much stronger incentive to bring value into Ether if they want to make any money.
And if they didn't do shit post release (The devs are smart....too smart lol), then they wouldn't make money, and it SHOULD be that way.
With the current system, whats stopping them from cashing out the BTC from the IPO portion, taking a vacation to the Bahamas and then dump all of their Ether a year from now?
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
Fun night out at bitcoin decentral (hey peter todd).  Vitalik gave a presentation on Ethereum that I imagine will be posted online pretty soon, if not already.
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100

Funny, I can't seem to get anyone to admit that investment was ended ended early in NXT or cancelled in eMunie to prevent further dilution of existing investors, though it is obvious that this is the case.
nxt launch was a total mess......and so rushed to be the first 100% PoS to market....although it is potentially a damn good crypto.
emunie has not yet launched so it is unfair to make any conclusions. the IPO was only cancelled in reaction to the slander/trolling that went on in the past week which was absolutely vicious and so close to the public offering could have affected it in a very negative way. it is not to exclude that they could still do the IPO, maybe even after a period of open beta test. which would be the most fair way  "try before buy "sort of model. at the monent though nothing has been decided....they are just concentrating on development and letting the videos do the talking (and i must say it' looks promising) .


about eThereum....not even sure why a PoW needs an IPO...in any case i'm over these "miners" coins...independently from the new hard memory mining method.....eventually they'll be asiced too... PoS coins have proved to be safe and stable without the need for miners...which already are starting to look as a menacing external presence in the bitcoin world.
we need coins that run simply from end users devices (self sustained)....and not reliant on external mining infrastructure.....PoS is the only way imo.
sr. member
Activity: 574
Merit: 250
Just a suggestion...but why not make the spelling: Etherium?
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
yeah, why founders deserve to get anything. Linux was made with no IPO. Ppl use it because it's cool and community built things on top of it because it's useful.

it was nice of the linux devs to work for free but people deserve to be payed for their work. still this is dumb. these devs should take a 1-10% premine for themselves instead of demanding bitcoin. that would actually put incentives in the right place for them to work hard to make the coin valuable.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.
yeah, why founders deserve to get anything. Linux was made with no IPO. Ppl use it because it's cool and community built things on top of it because it's useful.
sr. member
Activity: 574
Merit: 250
Yeah this IPO is ridiculous.

Founders.....why so high??  Huh
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
It's been my experience that when people try to ignore or dodge around an issue, and accuse the person questioning them of trolling, that it's because it's the truth.

Sorry to other people reading this discussion as it's tangential to Etherium, but the opportunity arose to confront the person responsible.

It does highlight the importance of sticking with a plan in a funding round once it is announced. NXT has made an enemy where it didn't need to have one, and I will continue to discourage people from investing in it as I feel the situation shows a lack of integrity of the people managing the project. All they had to do was say, "we are closing investment, so if you want to invest you need to do so within 4 hours" (or some reasonable time frame). All they have to do at this point is admit to the real reason they closed investment early.

+1.
While the reasons to NXT genesis investors (who made on paper >1000 BTC out of investments of <1BTC) being so zealous are understandable, IMHO it still hurts the NXT in the long run. While it's an interesting technology, chances it will have a hard time competing against MSC, BTS, Ethereum (and other upcoming other 2nd gen platforms) with a much larger initial adoption base and much fairer distribution model, bringing similar features and capabilities into the play.

How is the pre-sale of a POW mined currency price at more than double current Nxt market price a fair distribution model?  I wasn't a stakeholder in Nxt, but I bought right after launch when people were selling 1Mil Nxt for 1BTC.  I thought to myself, "I could theoretically buy 1% of this currency, that will ever exist, for 10 BTC" to me that was a great risk but also a great deal.  I've been trading BTC long enough to remember having about 15k BTC in my wallet in the early days, and to be honest, Nxt is the first alt coin I've ever owned, including LTC, which I always thought was a joke.  The founder of Nxt only made 21BTC (1 of which was his) on the launch, sure the stakeholders were limited (73 total), but they were all like you and me, with zero affiliation with BCNext or Nxt.  To me, Ethereal is a slave of ASIC Miners, with a ridiculously high IPO price and no interest earned like eMu, so who is being fair?
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
Very nice chart and calculation. It shows why intuitively I'm not too worried about the theoretical quantity of 2 trillion. It will take a long time to reach and 1.2 trillion is well  under the quantity of USD in circulation today.

This also assumes 10 minute blocks for 60 years, isn't that a little conservative?

Doesn't matter what the block time or block reward is. The number if coins changes, but the proportions do not.

The proportion of coins you get in the premise adjusts based on the quantity of BTC coming in. The more BTC everyone invests, the less ETH everyone receives.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 502
It's been my experience that when people try to ignore or dodge around an issue, and accuse the person questioning them of trolling, that it's because it's the truth.

Sorry to other people reading this discussion as it's tangential to Etherium, but the opportunity arose to confront the person responsible.

It does highlight the importance of sticking with a plan in a funding round once it is announced. NXT has made an enemy where it didn't need to have one, and I will continue to discourage people from investing in it as I feel the situation shows a lack of integrity of the people managing the project. All they had to do was say, "we are closing investment, so if you want to invest you need to do so within 4 hours" (or some reasonable time frame). All they have to do at this point is admit to the real reason they closed investment early.

+1.
While the reasons to NXT genesis investors (who made on paper >1000 BTC out of investments of <1BTC) being so zealous are understandable, IMHO it still hurts the NXT in the long run. While it's an interesting technology, chances it will have a hard time competing against MSC, BTS, Ethereum (and other upcoming other 2nd gen platforms) with a much larger initial adoption base and much fairer distribution model, bringing similar features and capabilities into the play.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 264
This is the true revolutionary second generation in cryptocurrencies.  I encourage everyone to read the white paper.

Posted From bitcointalk.org Android App

link to whitepaper?

1st page? http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
This is the true revolutionary second generation in cryptocurrencies.  I encourage everyone to read the white paper.

Posted From bitcointalk.org Android App

link to whitepaper?
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100

Is there an inflationary element of the coin?  For example, if I own 10k Ether but I'm not mining, will that 10k Ether increase just based on linear inflation year to year?
Negatory, I'm afraid. Ethers will decline in value as more ethers are mined, at a fixed rate of 0.5 x original ethers formed via fundraising. The rate of ethers declining will slow down over time. The most painful year seems to be the first year, which from an investment point of view is counterintuitive, as that is arguably the point of highest risk.

Btw, I like Ethereum and I do want it to succeed. I find the distribution counterintuitive at this point.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
Agree, the theoretical limit is not something to worry about. However, early investor risk should be looked at, especially ROI versus Btc which is more mature and where take up rate is expanding very rapidly.

People may criticise satoshi and the winklevoss twins, but that is not slowing the rate of adoption, afaik. Even the Winklevii are providing a service by holding btcs for the very long term, without them each Btc would be worth less (not worthless).  The more investors pile into btcs, the more the value rises, providing long term stability and more widespread adoption.

Early adopters should be rewarded for their foresight, attention to detail and the fact that they are putting their money where their mouth is. IMHO.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
Very nice chart and calculation. It shows why intuitively I'm not too worried about the theoretical quantity of 2 trillion. It will take a long time to reach and 1.2 trillion is well  under the quantity of USD in circulation today.

This also assumes 10 minute blocks for 60 years, isn't that a little conservative?
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
Here's another good chart, this assumes 10 minute blocks with 50 coins issued per block continually to miners (as Bitcoin had when it began);



As you can see, there's no 1 trillion in the near future.  By year 30, we've achieved 86,724,000, approximately 4 fold of that for Bitcoin.

So in many ways this premine is insanely good to investors who decide to hold onto their coins (but in my opinion, a little generous to the foundation itself).

I think it would be best if these (the premined coins) were given over a span of 10-15 years to investors, as a sort of "bond".  This would also ensure that the foundation would keep up with maintaining the blocktree and ensuring that is works.

Is there an inflationary element of the coin?  For example, if I own 10k Ether but I'm not mining, will that 10k Ether increase just based on linear inflation year to year?
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
black swan hunter
Very nice chart and calculation. It shows why intuitively I'm not too worried about the theoretical quantity of 2 trillion. It will take a long time to reach and 1.2 trillion is well  under the quantity of USD in circulation today.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
Here's another good chart, this assumes 10 minute blocks with 50 coins issued per block continually to miners (as Bitcoin had when it began);



As you can see, there's no 1 trillion in the near future.  By year 30, we've achieved 86,724,000, approximately 4 fold of that for Bitcoin.

So in many ways this premine is insanely good to investors who decide to hold onto their coins (but in my opinion, a little generous to the foundation itself).

I think it would be best if these (the premined coins) were given over a span of 10-15 years to investors, as a sort of "bond".  This would also ensure that the foundation would keep up with maintaining the blocktree and ensuring that is works.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
black swan hunter
I look at the goals of the project as well as the potential ROI. Ethereum is great on both counts. The mining actually performs a useful function in executing the smart contracts. The functionality of the Turing Complete scripting language as a platform for development is a milestone. The funding and distribution plan promises to be a good compromise for different types of stakeholders.
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