Topic: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error - page 19. (Read 35497 times)
Well, yeah. "Oh, we tested the code, but we can't be expected to have tests that make sure it's going to work in production" as an excuse is completely amateur hour.
Unless, of course, "irrevocably firehosing money at random strangers" is one of the spec'd features of their software, in which case I fully apologize for implying that it wasn't well-tested.
You are WRONG. I am NOT in possession of anyone elses property. Once the Bitcoin transfer was complete, it is MY property now. You ALL know this. That is how the game goes. Stop acting like a bitch because you are jealous it didn't happen to you.
If I send you 500 BTC, it is YOUR property now. NOT mine. That is how BTC works. WE ALL know this.
I am quite certain that's not how it works in Oregon.
Do we have this guy's real name and address? This is definitely attorney-worthy.
I imagine you can find information searching google and other sites starting from alias BenDavis.
Wrong. The 511 BTC of data have ZERO value. So, it is NOT greater than 1000 dollars. It is ZERO dollars. It only becomes dollars when it is traded to an exchange. Come on now. You are more intelligent then that.
Stop it B. Stop it.
Meh, I'm pretty sure 'value' is irrelevent before the fact its 'property' (parts of data). Once its property, all the judge is gonna ask is 'whats it worth?'.
I've seen plenty of Judge Judy to know when someone steals a TV, even though its not currency, the courts can still estimate a value of what it'd be worth once it was converted to currency. And then you pay that.
And I will reply to the judge, they are WORTHLESS, until they are sold at an exchange.
Anyhow, I am talking to my lawyer right now. Will report what he says.
It's not to late to return either bitcoins or fiat equivalent and settle this case amicably right now.
You do not want to have to pay 512 BTC in a year time when 1 BTC = 1000$.
You do not want to have to pay 512 BTC in a year time when 1 BTC = 1000$.
This guy was allowed to be a customer and he knew d**n well by signing up what social contract he was getting into.
If I wake up in the morning, and I find 511 BTC in my account, how did I steal it? Please explain that.
By not taking measures to return it to its rightful owner, and selling it as soon as you "found" it. As per the definition of theft in your state's laws.
Once it was transferred to me... I AM THE OWNER NOW. Why is that hard for you to grasp? If a pool sends you BTC for payment, YOU are the owner. Not the pool.
You guys are just hating! I love it! Bring the hate!
Do you honestly think the law works that way? I just linked you to a page from your own state's law books that says exactly the opposite of what you just said. He is a US citizen, and regardless of his citizenship, a crime was committed. His police report will cause you significant headaches, but feel free to keep acting like a badass online.
Wrong. The 511 BTC of data have ZERO value. So, it is NOT greater than 1000 dollars. It is ZERO dollars. It only becomes dollars when it is traded to an exchange. Come on now. You are more intelligent then that.
Stop it B. Stop it.
Meh, I'm pretty sure 'value' is irrelevent before the fact its 'property' (parts of data). Once its property, all the judge is gonna ask is 'whats it worth?'.
I've seen plenty of Judge Judy to know when someone steals a TV, even though its not currency, the courts can still estimate a value of what it'd be worth once it was converted to currency. And then you pay that.
That is actually not true: read the article I linked.
Also, here's the Oregon law on the matter: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.html
I'll quote the relevant section (164.015):
Quote
(2) Commits theft of property lost, mislaid or delivered by mistake as provided in ORS 164.065;
Furthermore, because its value is greater than $1000 (164.055), it counts as a theft in the first degree.
Ahh now this is interesting. Seems BenDavis is on the ropes. Now the only question I have if because this is international if things get legally mucky.
Bro, the transfer has no monetary value. If I send you 1000000 BTC, they have NO VALUE. Until you sell them. Patrick is going to have a BITCH of a time trying to get any court to prosecute me. I welcome the challenge. He will spend WAY more than 511 worth of BTC at an exchange rate of 8.5 on his lawyer fees lmfaoooooo
You really think cops are just going to show up at my door and cuff me, put me in jail? You guys are smoking something bad!!!!!!
Important facts you guys are forgetting with all these TERRIBLE analogies and discussions.
1. BTC is NOT RECOGNIZED as LEGAL TENDER in ANY COUNTRY in the ENTIRE WORLD, galaxy, even Mars.
2. BTC were NOT stolen. They were SENT to a wallet ID WITHOUT the recipient asking for them.
3. NOTHING ILLEGAL HAPPENED. An IRREVERSABLE TRANSACTION happened with a transfer of DATA that holds NO VALUE from wallet to wallet. I can have 1 million BTC in my wallet and they are NOT WORTH ANYTHING until I TRADE THEM to an exchange, which THEN recognizes the data as currency. Still does not make it LEGAL currency.
4. The BTC did not gain it's value until they were SOLD. AFTER THE TRANSFER. The transfer from Patrick to BenDavis of 511 BTC indeed, held no value. Value comes when you take the data to an exchange. Hopefully NOT intersango. They obviously do not know how to manage an Exchange.
5. Sender lives in Europe. Recipient lives in USA. There is NOTHING legal sender can do to recipient. Not to mention that any court in either country would recognize this as anything legal or illegal for that matter. They will laugh in your face. "Let me get this straight, you sent someone 'data' called bitcoins without them asking, and you want them back?" LMFAO
1. BTC is NOT RECOGNIZED as LEGAL TENDER in ANY COUNTRY in the ENTIRE WORLD, galaxy, even Mars.
2. BTC were NOT stolen. They were SENT to a wallet ID WITHOUT the recipient asking for them.
3. NOTHING ILLEGAL HAPPENED. An IRREVERSABLE TRANSACTION happened with a transfer of DATA that holds NO VALUE from wallet to wallet. I can have 1 million BTC in my wallet and they are NOT WORTH ANYTHING until I TRADE THEM to an exchange, which THEN recognizes the data as currency. Still does not make it LEGAL currency.
4. The BTC did not gain it's value until they were SOLD. AFTER THE TRANSFER. The transfer from Patrick to BenDavis of 511 BTC indeed, held no value. Value comes when you take the data to an exchange. Hopefully NOT intersango. They obviously do not know how to manage an Exchange.
5. Sender lives in Europe. Recipient lives in USA. There is NOTHING legal sender can do to recipient. Not to mention that any court in either country would recognize this as anything legal or illegal for that matter. They will laugh in your face. "Let me get this straight, you sent someone 'data' called bitcoins without them asking, and you want them back?" LMFAO
I love internet lawyers.
1. Irrelevant. A bicycle is also not recognized as legal tender anywhere, but there are plenty of people in prison for stealing them.
2. It became theft when they weren't returned. You don't like the bank error analogy, so try a warehouse. They give you the wrong parcel, you sell it instead of giving it back. You go to prison.
3. Nonsense from start to finish. The exchange of data is a token to memorialize the transfer of the ownership interest in the intangible property. That ownership interest has a very real value, and the markets are very, very liquid, so the value is quite certain. Do you think your house has no value because it isn't at this moment undergoing a sale?
4. Nonsense, covered in point 3.
5. The state has an interest in prosecuting felony grand theft, even when the victim is a foreigner. If you hire a hitman to kill someone overseas, don't imagine that you won't end up in prison because the target doesn't live in your country.
The laughing will go the other way. Ask a lawyer or a judge if you don't believe me.
That is actually not true: read the article I linked.
Also, here's the Oregon law on the matter: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.html
I'll quote the relevant section (164.015):
Quote
(2) Commits theft of property lost, mislaid or delivered by mistake as provided in ORS 164.065;
Furthermore, because its value is greater than $1000 (164.055), it counts as a theft in the first degree.
Ahh now this is interesting. Seems BenDavis is on the ropes. Now the only question I have if because this is international if things get legally mucky.
It's more of a pain him to file a report, but it's certainly possible, and he's made it clear that he intends to follow through with his police report. He is a US citizen living abroad. The thief should definitely be worried, at this point.
You are WRONG. I am NOT in possession of anyone elses property. Once the Bitcoin transfer was complete, it is MY property now. You ALL know this. That is how the game goes. Stop acting like a bitch because you are jealous it didn't happen to you.
If I send you 500 BTC, it is YOUR property now. NOT mine. That is how BTC works. WE ALL know this.
I am quite certain that's not how it works in Oregon.
Do we have this guy's real name and address? This is definitely attorney-worthy.
This guy was allowed to be a customer and he knew d**n well by signing up what social contract he was getting into.
If I wake up in the morning, and I find 511 BTC in my account, how did I steal it? Please explain that.
By not taking measures to return it to its rightful owner, and selling it as soon as you "found" it. As per the definition of theft in your state's laws.
Once it was transferred to me... I AM THE OWNER NOW. Why is that hard for you to grasp? If a pool sends you BTC for payment, YOU are the owner. Not the pool.
You guys are just hating! I love it! Bring the hate!
That is actually not true: read the article I linked.
Also, here's the Oregon law on the matter: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.html
I'll quote the relevant section (164.015):
Quote
(2) Commits theft of property lost, mislaid or delivered by mistake as provided in ORS 164.065;
Furthermore, because its value is greater than $1000 (164.055), it counts as a theft in the first degree.
Ahh now this is interesting. Seems BenDavis is on the ropes. Now the only question I have if because this is international if things get legally mucky.
You are WRONG. I am NOT in possession of anyone elses property. Once the Bitcoin transfer was complete, it is MY property now. You ALL know this. That is how the game goes. Stop acting like a bitch because you are jealous it didn't happen to you.
If I send you 500 BTC, it is YOUR property now. NOT mine. That is how BTC works. WE ALL know this.
That is actually not true: read the article I linked.
Also, here's the Oregon law on the matter: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.html
I'll quote the relevant section (164.015):
Quote
(2) Commits theft of property lost, mislaid or delivered by mistake as provided in ORS 164.065;
Furthermore, because its value is greater than $1000 (164.055), it counts as a theft in the first degree.
Wrong. The 511 BTC of data have ZERO value. So, it is NOT greater than 1000 dollars. It is ZERO dollars. It only becomes dollars when it is traded to an exchange. Come on now. You are more intelligent then that.
Stop it B. Stop it.
This guy was allowed to be a customer and he knew d**n well by signing up what social contract he was getting into.
If I wake up in the morning, and I find 511 BTC in my account, how did I steal it? Please explain that.
By not taking measures to return it to its rightful owner, and selling it as soon as you "found" it. As per the definition of theft in your state's laws.
This guy was allowed to be a customer and he knew d**n well by signing up what social contract he was getting into.
If I wake up in the morning, and I find 511 BTC in my account, how did I steal it? Please explain that.
That is NOT the case. Patrick and Donald sent email after email threatening BenDavis and his family. His children. His freedom. You make an EPIC mistake like this, and then you threaten someones KIDS about it? That is NOT the way to get what you want back.
This is interesting. DLowDAOG confirms that BenDavis (IRC nick on Freenode) received email from Patrick and Donald, which presumably was sent to his not public email address. However, then why:
Quote
[04:52] <@BenDavis> But I don't know what you are talking about!
[04:54] <@BenDavis> Patrick Strateman, I have no clue what you are talking about.
[04:54] <@BenDavis> I don't even mine for coins.
[04:55] <@BenDavis> I have no clue what you are talking about!
[04:57] <@BenDavis> Yeah, I do not believe I took anything.
[04:58] <@BenDavis> Can you tell me how I took anything?
[04:54] <@BenDavis> Patrick Strateman, I have no clue what you are talking about.
[04:54] <@BenDavis> I don't even mine for coins.
[04:55] <@BenDavis> I have no clue what you are talking about!
[04:57] <@BenDavis> Yeah, I do not believe I took anything.
[04:58] <@BenDavis> Can you tell me how I took anything?
Also, it seems BenDavis does mine for coins: http://bitcoinpool.com/index.php?do=userprofile&id=BenDavis
http://i.imgur.com/MjeKP.png
Congrats detective lol stunning work there.
You are WRONG. I am NOT in possession of anyone elses property. Once the Bitcoin transfer was complete, it is MY property now. You ALL know this. That is how the game goes. Stop acting like a bitch because you are jealous it didn't happen to you.
If I send you 500 BTC, it is YOUR property now. NOT mine. That is how BTC works. WE ALL know this.
Just to add to my list of relevant sections from that law page:
Quote
164.065 Theft of lost, mislaid property. A person who comes into control of property of another that the person knows or has good reason to know to have been lost, mislaid or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient, commits theft if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, the person fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to the owner. [1971 c.743 §126]
That is NOT the case. Patrick and Donald sent email after email threatening BenDavis and his family. His children. His freedom. You make an EPIC mistake like this, and then you threaten someones KIDS about it? That is NOT the way to get what you want back.
This is interesting. DLowDAOG confirms that BenDavis (IRC nick on Freenode) received email from Patrick and Donald, which presumably was sent to his not public email address. However, then why:
Quote
[04:52] <@BenDavis> But I don't know what you are talking about!
[04:54] <@BenDavis> Patrick Strateman, I have no clue what you are talking about.
[04:54] <@BenDavis> I don't even mine for coins.
[04:55] <@BenDavis> I have no clue what you are talking about!
[04:57] <@BenDavis> Yeah, I do not believe I took anything.
[04:58] <@BenDavis> Can you tell me how I took anything?
[04:54] <@BenDavis> Patrick Strateman, I have no clue what you are talking about.
[04:54] <@BenDavis> I don't even mine for coins.
[04:55] <@BenDavis> I have no clue what you are talking about!
[04:57] <@BenDavis> Yeah, I do not believe I took anything.
[04:58] <@BenDavis> Can you tell me how I took anything?
Also, it seems BenDavis does mine for coins: http://bitcoinpool.com/index.php?do=userprofile&id=BenDavis
http://i.imgur.com/MjeKP.png
Sad.
FYI; "legal tender" or "legally recognized currency" etc is completely irrelevant, don't really understand why so many keep bringing that up. It's absolutely correct that the receiver of a faulty transfer does not in any way become the owner.
FYI; "legal tender" or "legally recognized currency" etc is completely irrelevant, don't really understand why so many keep bringing that up. It's absolutely correct that the receiver of a faulty transfer does not in any way become the owner.
Definitely not good faith, and it'll look bad when the law gets involved.
You really seem to think the law is going to get involved? What law lmfao WE LIVE IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.
He might live outside the US right now, but he is a US citizen, and fully intends to prosecute. He's no less of a citizen because he lives abroad, and the law won't take him any less seriously.
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