Topic: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error - page 6. (Read 35511 times)

I read here a lot, never posted.  But this I had to comment on.

One thing I noticed.  Not one person here has questioned why the code has failed repeatedly and sent people bitcoins OR intersangos integrity.  Does this happen to anyone else, to any other exchange?  Maybe once, but not over and over, right?  Is Patrick really that bad of a coder?  That raises an eyebrow for me.  I don't know about you guys.

Sure, it is easy to call BenDavis a thief, he is the bad guy, scammer (although I really don't see how anyone can call HIM the scammer here, he is just the prick who wont give back the coins).  Sure, I can get that.  What a dick.  But aren't you supposed to look at BOTH sides of a story, before coming to judgement?  Why has no one questioned what intersango is doing with these repeated errors?

I know nothing about code, nothing about how money is generated or how exchange statistics are reported in the bitcoin exchange world.  But I do have one thing.  Logic.  I have a few simple questions.

1.  Why has the code failed repeatedly?  Why is intersango repeatedly sending bitcoins to people and having to ask for them back?

2.  Does bitcoin traffic (being sent back and forth from customer to exchange) benefit the exchange at all?  I know website traffic helps websites.  Is there any connection with that and a bitcoin exchange?

Has intersango figured out a subtle, quiet, not really noticeable scam to increase BTC traffic on their exchange?  Betting that most people are kind hearted and will send them back?  Making their numbers look better?  I am not sure, just a simpleton asking questions to all you intelligent folk.

3.  Why were the transactions sent 1 BTC at a time?  It was not a bundle of 511 at once.  It was 511, one at a time.  That would also point to increasing traffic on their exchange.  511 transactions in one day?  Then all sent back in one bundle, (well, they hoped at least) to make the books not look the 'same' ? 511 by 1 going out.  Then 511 at once going in.

I do have accounting experience.  And I do know that similar things like this are used to 'cook the books' in the accounting world.  Separate transactions like that make it harder to get caught cooking books.

Why has no one mentioned or thought about anything like this?  Because it is too easy to just call BenDavis a thief?  You all look like you are pretty intelligent people.  Yet, me, the moron here, is the only one to look at intersango and say 'this looks kind of weird to me'.

I get that cash equals debt.  When the gov't needs money, they have the Fed print them more.  The increase in national debt is associated with an increase in the money supply/inflation to account for the promise to pay back that debt.  So yeah, the FRNs are printed as an indicator of the promise to pay back the debt.

I was careless, as you said, to interchange the promise to pay with payment itself.

No worries, the credit/debit money system is confusing and obfuscating by intentional design. The PTB do not want anyone to know the legal mechanics of it. It took nearly 3 years of reading every possible book about money going back to legal texts from the 1600's. What passes as money today represents the ABSENCE of money. Go figure.

Duly noted.  I stand corrected.

WRONG.
The point is you don't know there is  difference between a discharging  a debt and an outright purchase . A debt means there is a delay in payment. There is a promise to pay in there is a debt. However a promise to pay is not payment. A Federal Reserve Note is a promise to pay as  per Title 12 Section 411.

 The technical legal terminology is an executory contract versus an executed contract.

The law treats the 2 acts completely differently.

I just find it funny that the FED says the exact opposite of what you said. You claimed FRN's are legal tender for goods and services. The FED says "no" almost word for word.

Once again I'll remind you , a promise to pay is not payment. No pronouncement of the gov't can make it so either. Furthermore, Federal Statutes recognize Federal Reserve Notes as legal tender but those statutes do not exclude any other promissory note as legal tender do they? The only thing Federal statutes ban is simulating their currency or destroying it.

I could right a lot more about how all this is based on the Custom of the City of London and Foreign bills of exchange but I have other stuff to do.

Yep.  He doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Man, all these internet lawyers are comical. Do you think that anything said on an internet forum is worth the paper it's written on?

Ben Davis didn't receive those 511 coins, I did. I cashed them out on MtGox as soon as I saw them in my wallet, I called up Tom Williams and Bruce Wagner and we bought a bunch of unregistered handguns, cocaine and underage thai ladyboys, all of which are currently piled around me while I type this. Let me tell you, it's been a hell-of-a-couple-day-orgy.

I am pretty sure your case is solid, what with my confession and all. Call the internet police.

You really should have done more testing and worked harder on your code. Normally I would say its wrong to take from someone else but the facts here are that,
The website made no mention of the fact that it's code was still effectively not tested. The website is liable for whatever loses it receives due to its own poor code.

This is a question of morality not law, the costumer doesn't want to return the bitcoins.

Yes, debt from goods/services public or private.

I give good or service to you, I have a debt (lets say, -1) from delivering this good or service.
Legal tender is suitable to repay this debt.
You give me (+1) legal tender to fill the debt.

The giving of a good or service constitutes a debt.  Legal tender repays that debt.

And the problem is???

This guy on Reddit said it best:


"But Bitcoin isn't stocks or real estate titles or patents. It isn't legal tender as far as the US government is concerned, it's just numbers on a computer. As far as they're concerned, it holds no monetary or intellectual value in their eyes.

It would be more akin to saying that my dog took a dump on another person's lawn, and that person decided to keep the shit. That shit could be worth thousands of dollars to me or numerous other poo enthusiasts, but as far as the government is concerned, it's just shit. There's no way in hell that I'd be able to sue for ownership rights to that shit.

I have no sympathy for this guy. As someone else in this thread has said, their code had fucked those guys over before. He knew that there was a possibility that he could send that guy Bitcoins they didn't intend to. It's one of the flaws that comes with dealing in Bitcoin. The 'customer' has no legal obligation to return the Bitcoin. He might be a bit of a douche, but that's about it."

You are absolutely right...and for that, I appologize.

All fixed: www.bendavis.name

I have been archiving his posts offline, because if lawyer-friend had any idea you could edit or delete your own postings here, that'd be the first thing any good lawyer-friend would recommend he do.

Also, the more I read about how Oregon law considers willful conversion of someone's property to be larceny or theft, the more I think it would be a fantastic idea to contact the police department local to him and explain to them exactly what's happened.  Particularly about the part about this guy parading that he took these bitcoins and converted them to cash.

You know, if Americans can be prosecuted for traveling abroad to commit sex crimes, we certainly can be prosecuted for committing crimes against foreigners while at home.  Nowhere in our laws is it stipulated that the victim of a crime has to be a citizen present on US soil.

Good job stealing a registered trademark

Wow. I guess I never really thought of that. I am simply a fan of BenDavis Work Clothing..... what a coincidence.

I guess www.bendavis.name might have more than 1 use after all.....

OH! There is a lot of content to put there on this thread only... name, addresses, phone numbers, pics, lotsa stuff really

On a completely UNRELATED note, I am looking for a Web Designer to help with development on an old project of mine.

http://www.bendavis.name/

Once completed, I am hoping to sell it for 512 BTC + Misc expenses (to be calculated during the project).

Please let me know if you have anything to offer, or even content ideas.

HAHAAH I didn't even see this. You really are clueless.


http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

Maybe he got a lawyer or called a lawyer-friend. These types tend to shut you up real quick in your own interest.

Ultimately it's his choice to give them back or not.
It was an error, in the receivers favor.
If I personally rec'd the coins and was asked POLITELY to return the funds bc of a script error (non intentional) I would do so in a heart beat.

I guess I'm trying to say that neither parties acted in a moral or upstanding way.
It was an interesting read though

Sorry but no, you have explained absolutely nothing in this whole thread You have had quite a few entertaining fantasies posted though.