Face unlock on bitcoin wallet devices - page 3.

Rockstarguy

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Quote from: Findingnemo on August 30, 2023, 02:10:31 AM

Quote from: _act_ on August 30, 2023, 01:52:20 AM

The fingerprint is not secure, what about face unlock?

Face lock is even less secure than the fingerprint, There are instances about facial recognition already proven that face ID can be fooled by pictures and even someone with facial similarities can access your device which is unlikely to happen with a fingerprint scanner because it's more complicated to tamper but still possible to replicate.

Fingerprint is safer than the face recognition, like you said pictures can be used to unlike a device if the persons face is unavailable. The fingerprint is one the best for the security on devices because it has been proven scientifically there are no two identical fingerprint in the world that is exactly the sane, this means it impossible to use someone else fingerprint to unlock a device, sometimes when the finger is not properly placed the device still remains lock. I think fingerprint security would be so difficult to manipulate unlike other security patterns.

Yamane_Keto

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Quote from: NotATether on August 31, 2023, 05:32:44 AM

I have seen some bugs inside mobile phone screen locks that use facial recognition where some friends can show a similar-enough person's face, and it unlocks the phone for them. So it's pretty bleeding-edge technology and not something you want to rely on by itself to guard access to your crypto.

What confirms that these services are not very accurate is that they are built on the password, as you are asked to enter the password before you can activate the Face unlock option. If you fail, you will be asked to enter a PIN or password, but as I mentioned previously, we are talking about locking and not encryption, which means that it can be easily bypassed if someone steals your phone or wants to, while it is impossible to decrypt it with the same ease as unlocking.

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I have seen some bugs inside mobile phone screen locks that use facial recognition where some friends can show a similar-enough person's face, and it unlocks the phone for them. So it's pretty bleeding-edge technology and not something you want to rely on by itself to guard access to your crypto.

Maybe it can happen with fingerprint recognition too, I don't know. But so far I have not seen that happen.

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Quote from: Ruttoshi on August 31, 2023, 02:13:20 AM

Face lock isn't a good way to secure your bitcoin wallet neither will a finger print be the best option. It is easy for one to get access to your wallet unknowingly to you if you are using any of these security methods to secure your bitcoin wallet.

Face ID and password/passcode isn't a bad combination to use on your device, you're not using it to secure your wallet per se, but to prevent unauthorized access into your device, and you could have other important and private stuffs/files in your device that you do not want others to see. Even if someone finds a way into your device despite this, your wallet file should be encrypted with a unique password, don't use the same password you used to lock your device to also encrypt your wallet file, you could even go a step further to encrypt your wallets app on your phone, thus for somone to gain access to your wallet, they'll have to break three different encryptions. Having said that, store only an amount you can afford to lose on your online wallet.

Ruttoshi

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Face lock isn't a good way to secure your bitcoin wallet neither will a finger print be the best option. It is easy for one to get access to your wallet unknowingly to you if you are using any of these security methods to secure your bitcoin wallet.

For instance,if a family member knows that you are using any of this method,it is easy for them to have access to your wallet by taking advantage of you when you are sick and lying down helplessly. They can just hold your hand and use your finger print to access your wallet,unknowingly to you because you are weak and sleeping. Also with the face lock,an identical twins can use his face to unlock is other twin wallet. The best method is to put a password,because that remains inside you and if you don't say it out or write it,there will be no access without your permission.

Die_empty

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I have never liked using biometrics because it can malfunction and sometimes I wonder what happens in times of uncertainties such as illness and injuries that can disfigure the owner. Keeping small amount in a mobile phone and a strong password is a better option.

Quote from: _act_ on August 30, 2023, 02:54:37 PM

Quote from: dkbit98 on August 30, 2023, 11:13:07 AM

Using biometrics alone is not safe, but using it in combination with strong password is not a bad idea.
Nobody is going to enter long password for unlocking phone every time.

I do not understand what you are saying. You first said that face unlock can be manipulated in a way someone's photo can be used to unlock the device. Later you said using it with a long password is good. If someone phone is stolen with the long password phone, the person photo can still be used to unlock the device. Which means it is not good to use face unlock.

@dkbit98 advice is clear and easy to understand. He advised that combining a biometrics face lock and a strong password would be a better option. This means these scammers will have to go through two security checks that is biometrics and password.

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Many users want to manage their crypto assets easily and securely while eliminating the common risks associated with private key management and account recovery and now many platforms are trying to provide more specialized services as you mentioned in managing wallets that may be stored and accessible through mobile.

It's true as the OP said and it has also been applied by large companies such as Apple and Microsoft which have used Biometric Facial authentication as the main authentication factor in their newest products. But I think there are also challenges that arise with biometrics on devices when the original device is no longer accessible, for example lost or stolen, or never had native support for Biometrics included when it was manufactured.

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Quote from: nakamura12 on August 30, 2023, 04:14:42 PM

Anyway, I am not sure if they found out your wallet but need photo of the owner to unlock it because I think it's possible to use photo of the owner to unlock the wallet or even the phone.

As far as I know, Face ID like on iPhone uses 3D technology to map your face. I've experienced using it to unlock my girl's phone with her photo, but it won't unlock the iPhone. But, even if it can't, I don't recommend installing a wallet on the phone even if it's for a few BTC. because I lost 0.0005 BTC saved in my wallet phone some time ago. yeah, it's not much, but with that experience, I don't want to save BTC on my wallet phone anymore.

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If it's a small amount, any security measure that I like to explore will do. But I just want to take it the traditional way by adding a 2FA or any password that I only know. As long as I am not compromising myself and I know my history when I use the web and my smartphones as well, then the traditional will be fine for me. I'm conscious but I want to do it in a natural and easy way. Because being complex could also put some effort and make things complicated like fingerprint and eye scanner unlock.

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Quote from: _act_ on August 30, 2023, 01:52:20 AM

It is on this forum that I knew using fingerprint to unlock wallet device is not good, specifically mobile phones. We know already that we should not have too much bitcoin on a mobile wallet. Let us assume that you have little amount of bitcoin on a mobile bitcoin wallet like Electrum or Bluewallet but you still want security.

Fingerprint is not secure, what about face unlock?

Fingerprints are more secured than face unlock because I have witness a case where identical twins were able to unlock each others phone by their faces. The best thing to do is to keep your password very safe and non accessible to anyone, you can’t trust all, so make sure your password is not disclosable to anyone.

Anybody that have access to your password can easily add their fingerprints to the phone and will be able to have access to your wallet and get away with your funds simpler than a thief stealing your phone and trying to crack your password before accessing your phone.

Nowadays, applications do enable adding fingerprints or face unlock as alternative to password for easy accessibility. If your application already enabled that in your phone, it’ll be very easy to access the wallet and steal your money when anyone who knows your password gets hold of your phone.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on August 30, 2023, 02:10:31 AM

In the worst-case scenario if someone tries to rob your Bitcoin wallet and they catch you so imagine accessing the wallet with biometrics is just simple they can touch your thumb or show it towards your face but if its a password they can't access it unless you spill.

In this worst case scenario you already lost, because you will give up your coins when your life will be threatened. The only protection from these situations is to never get into them in the first place.

Protecting your all Bitcoin savings with a fingerprint or face id is stupid, but using it for a small wallet for daily spendings is totally acceptable. And the biggest threat to mobile wallets is malware, so it's best to focus on never getting it on your device.

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Quote from: _act_ on August 30, 2023, 01:52:20 AM

It is on this forum that I knew using fingerprint to unlock wallet device is not good, specifically mobile phones. We know already that we should not have too much bitcoin on a mobile wallet. Let us assume that you have little amount of bitcoin on a mobile bitcoin wallet like Electrum or Bluewallet but you still want security.

Fingerprint is not secure, what about face unlock?

I wouldn't actually trust both fingerprint and face unlock, I mean fingerprint I guess is more secure because face unlock is not that reliable and there are a lot of times when it completely fails especially if you change your look, or maybe we just grow and its normal that over time our face change. Both of these securities are not that reliable because they can easily be cracked and I wouldn't really use this on my Bitcoin wallet. It wasn't really some kind of encryption, the fingerprint can be used if you want to be convenient since you could easily access your wallet using your fingerprint and not using your password but it just wasn't fully secured.

I guess if it is a multiple layer of security we could use something like this, with your seep phrase password, and then throw in another layer of security using the fingerprint. I just dont think that the face unlock is a great security it needs a lot more improvement, Even on top-of-the-line devices there are times when this face unlock fails which is really annoying.

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To be honest I believe the problem actually lies with us the end users! We are always looking for convenience in trying to save us time from the process of copying a private key and pasting it..which has pushed these app developers to use biometrics to allow us access to our wallets ( surprisingly bank apps do this too) and I don't see this stopping any time soon as no serious losses have been reported yet...
Btw when it comes to biometrics locks, isn't this dependant on the security of the operating system...if it can be fooled with a picture of you then don't consider enabling it.

But on the bright side, if someone had passed on and their device had all these wallets biometric locked..it means access to the treasure can easily be retrieved by a spouse unlike a wallet locked by a pvt key which once key isn't found its over for you.

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Quote from: Doan9269 on August 30, 2023, 07:53:35 AM

They are almost thesame because don't be surprised that when you're sleeping someone can just have access to your phone and place the phone right to your face to get unlocked,

What you said is possible with fingerprint, an intruder can gain access to your phone when you're sleeping by using your fingerprint but I don't think Face lock works the same way. I think the eyes need to be opened and probably blink once to unlock. I've never used Face lock before but I need to test this theory to be certain. A strong password combination is still the best and most effective in securing your wallet or phone.

Quote from: Doan9269 on August 30, 2023, 07:53:35 AM

using password, biometrics or face unlocked features are just device and apps sensitive, they don't secure our funds on the wallet.

Password does add a layer of security to your wallet. Some mobile wallets like Electrum requires you to enter your password in other to gain access to the wallet. Except you failed to password protect your wallet when setting it up.

nakamura12

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I also bave done the same where I didn't store too much Bitcoin in my wallet. I didn't even set a fingerprint unlock that's why I also didn't use face unlock. Anyway, I am not sure if they found out your wallet but need photo of the owner to unlock it because I think it's possible to use photo of the owner to unlock the wallet or even the phone. I also haven't heard someone's funds or money got stolen when his/her wallet required face to unlock or even fingerprint.

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Quote from: Franctoshi on August 30, 2023, 10:52:04 AM

Even with facial recognition which is already integrated into our smartphones, I have never preferred using it as a method of security in my device because I feel insecure with it let alone using it in my mobile wallet where I have some funds in it, someone can easily scan your face even when you are sleeping or get access by other methods to compromise your wallet, I'm ok with high secured password.

Using face unlock is not a good way for us to unlock our wallet especially most of the mining apps that will require people to do face verification before they can move from testnet to mainet and I see it as a wrong step at any point. There are wallets that will want us to use fa e verification to safeguard our wallet from unapproved people around. If the verification is from the phone security itself, that could be better but it should not be from a random wallet or app asking us to complete a face verification to use our wallet.

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Quote from: _act_ on August 30, 2023, 02:54:37 PM

I do not understand what you are saying. You first said that face unlock can be manipulated in a way someone's photo can be used to unlock the device. Later you said using it with a long password is good. If someone phone is stolen with the long password phone, the person photo can still be used to unlock the device. Which means it is not good to use face unlock.

I am afraid you will never understand it. Tongue

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Quote from: Aikidoka on August 30, 2023, 10:56:53 AM

IMO the optimal approach involves employing two separate apps on your phone for conducting transactions, thus enhancing security. The first app would be utilized for creating the transaction, while the second one would serve to confirm the transaction using a different code. I'm curious to know if there's a wallet with this kind of functionality available for phones.

There is no such thing as what you're explaining, i think what you are trying to suggest is an air-gapped wallet, but this isn't how it works. If what you meant is an air-gapped wallet, it works with two devices; not "two separate apps", the first device is offline whilst the other is online (and is watching-only), the latter creates the transaction and also broadcasts it, whilst the former signs the transaction. As for wallets you can create an air-gapped wallets on, electrum is perfect for it.

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 30, 2023, 11:13:07 AM

Few days ago I saw latest thing used by scammers and hackers to easily unlock any devices that have biometrics face lock.
They only need one regular photo from phone owner, than they create video from that by adding same photo multiple times in a same way like movies are made... this was later used to unlock phones.
Using biometrics alone is not safe, but using it in combination with strong password is not a bad idea.
Nobody is going to enter long password for unlocking phone every time.

I do not understand what you are saying. You first said that face unlock can be manipulated in a way someone's photo can be used to unlock the device. Later you said using it with a long password is good. If someone phone is stolen with the long password phone, the person photo can still be used to unlock the device. Which means it is not good to use face unlock.

dkbit98

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Few days ago I saw latest thing used by scammers and hackers to easily unlock any devices that have biometrics face lock.
They only need one regular photo from phone owner, than they create video from that by adding same photo multiple times in a same way like movies are made... this was later used to unlock phones.
Using biometrics alone is not safe, but using it in combination with strong password is not a bad idea.
Nobody is going to enter long password for unlocking phone every time.

Topic: Face unlock on bitcoin wallet devices - page 3. (Read 654 times)