Topic: "Failure to Understand Bitcoin Could Cost Investors Billions" (Bitcoin's flaws) - page 4. (Read 43230 times)

What is PTB?

Armstrong says government is going along with Bitcoin because that is what they want so they can track all the wealth and tax it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WyGfBsBxW0#t=2700

(video should begin playing at 45:00 mins so you can hear the sound bite immediately)

Btw, I have tried living like that here in the Philippines (where that photo was probably taken) and trust me, you don't want that "prosperity".

Gains in prosperity are not a zero-sum game. We can produce more energy. There is no limit. The Second Law of Thermodynamics assures us that entropy trends to maximum. Even Einstein said that law is fundamental.

Anarchy is not only people living in the jungle like rabbits. It is also the decentralized internet. You conflate poverty with decentralization. There is always a mix of top-down and bottom-up organization in society. It is when this balance skews too far to top-down that socialism is peaking in a big heap of debt and corruption.

I know you would really like a Dark Age, but sorry you won't get one inspite of the fact that the collectivism has f8cked everything up pretty severely this time around. The reason is because the internet is too powerful as a knowledge liberating tool. And I am particularly adept at seeing what needs to be done now.

The at-home 3D printing revolution will mean we can be self-sufficient and autonomous and void the 'aliens' leeches with their large capital and factories. The 3D printer can even print itself!

That is the last post I will allow from you that repeats the nonsense that all progress came from collectivism. In fact, all progress came from individual discoveries! You don't even understand the basic definition of knowledge:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3829608


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3804181
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3831144
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3804256

Take the time to read those link posts above otherwise don't bother to reply.

Communication and network effects are not collectivism. Collectivism is making promises to each other and binding each other in futures contracts. This is slavery, because nobody can predict every micro-event in the future. The futures contracts prevent the local annealing that optimizes the economy. I first learned this concept from Jason Hommel. Ignoring the Biblical points, you can still find the mathematical wisdom of his point:

http://silverstockreport.com/2009/greenspan-misapplied.html
http://www.silverstockreport.com/essays/Freedom_from_Usury.html

I expound on the fact that only maximization of degrees-of-freedom, thus optimal fitness, via local real-time annealing is what creates prosperity:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4576810

collectivism = promises = futures contracts = slavery = boom&bust

You can find that theme throughout my archives. Whereas collectivism stomps on and tries to prevent fitness and prosperity.

Re-read my prior post, I added to it.

You can't find 'increasing gains' within an anarchist, stateless environment:



Increasing gains (vulgo: destruction) start as soon as you collectivize/civilize these free people and 'educate' them at the institutions of the collectivists.

This is Fiction and Theology. Fact in the real world and history is this: anarchist, debtless communities do not increase production and productivity. Collectivist societies do.

You are a collectivist. You are trying to maintain the society (collectivism), which is a world of doing business with aliens. It is the opposite of anarchy, which is self-sufficiency in a world of self-sufficient communities, which means: no business and no labor division with aliens.
A decentralized society is still a society (labor division). It is not anarchy, which is self-sufficiency beyond labor division with aliens.

You don't understand the role of debt. Debtless humans don't suffer from productivity gains. Debtless humans in the rain forests nearly live still the same life style as 100'000 years ago.
Productivity increase and output increase is the result of tax/tribute and its derivative: the debt/interest.

There is no such thing as a 'knowledge production' in an anarchist environment. Knowledge production is at least hundred fold slower within anarchist, debtless, stateless communities than within indebted, collectivist societies. Historic fact against theologic fiction.

Start your education in anthropology and the difference between non-growing communities (anarchy) and rampant growing societies (patriarchy/collectivism), instead of posting theologic nonsense about your idol: progress, which in fact is destruction by labor division (collectivism)

Right, he is confusing increasing gains along shrinking measuring stick (fiat money) for prosperity.

On that point, see this:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5656763

---

Zarathustra is conflating the ill effects of debt and tangible capital (which is actually inertia and liability, not assets) with the gains in prosperity that all arise from technology and human ingenuity.

His assertion (I deleted the nonsense post) that knowledge can't prosper in a decentralized society (a.k.a. anarchy) is unfathomably incorrect. It is so incorrect, that he should not be included in the discussion here, because it is just noise which buries the important discussion in this thread.

I've told him by private message that if he can make comments without making a long quotation of the prior post, then I will allow his comments if they don't just repeat the same nonsense without any sufficient citation or factual backup. I don't want to bury this thread in nonsense.

If he feels that is censorship, then fine he can create his own thread. I rarely have to delete posts, but he goes on and on and on with the same nonsense asserting there can be no sharing of knowledge and no network effects once we have decentralization.

His thinking is the antithesis of everything the internet has done and brought to us.

He is correct that the complexity of the power vacuum of socialism is collapsing. But his mistake is conflating that collapse with the rise of decentralization, which is actually a knowledge networking effects phenomenon.

If you get that wrong, you've got everything wrong. It is that important.

P.S. my personal apology to him for being forced to delete his nonsense posts. It is not personal. I am just keeping the thread signal-to-noise ratio high. I have allowed silly posts of others to remain, because they didn't go on and on and on post after post.

As Adam Smith wrote, landowners are the only stakeholders in a capitalist economy that don't suffer from productivity gains in the long run.  (Read Smith's Weath of Nations for why.... it is public domain by now.)  Stakeholders outside the economy will obviously not be effected by it (except possibly by pollution), so I don't really see your point there.

Now, whether or not what we have can rightly be called capitalism is another question entirely.

You entirely don't understand knowledge production. This causes you to conflate and confuse everything. I don't need debt to program the computer, generate knowledge and increase productivity. I don't need a constantly growing tangible capital with its debt base to perpetually increase knowledge. You are conflating the effects of tangible limitations and knowledge production. Welcome to the virtual reality of knowledge and the internet. Perhaps you've been asleep under a rock for the past 15 years.

Start your education here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/economic-devastation-355212 (Economic Devastation thread)

Don't post any more nonsense in this thread. Go refute in the thread linked above which is not moderated by me. Readers can go there to view more of your nonsense.

You don't understand the role of debt. Debtless humans don't suffer from productivity gains. Debtless humans in the rain forests nearly live still the same life style as 100'000 years ago.
Productivity increase and output increase is the result of tax/tribute and its derivative: the debt/interest.

You are a collectivist. You are trying to maintain the society (collectivism), which is a world of doing business with aliens. It is the opposite of anarchy, which is self-sufficiency in a world of self-sufficient communities, which means: no business and no labor division with aliens.

That is socialism debt capital, not knowledge work capital. You conflate the problem with the solution respectively.

No, Tainter; and historic fact. Diminishing return on 'additional investment in additional complexity' until the tipping point (vulgo:the end of the society).

Malthusian nonsense. I wrote about why Malthusians are always wrong:

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html#2nd_Law_of_Thermo

You conflate the failure of socialism with the success of technology.

Without technology you'd be freezing your ass off in a cave with no fire.

This is why I ignore you. I allowed for the possibility that socialism fucked everything up so much this time around, we may fall into the abyss of a Dark Age.

But I am not going to let that happen. And I have the power to stop it (where my work will be leveraged by all the hackers).

Now you watch and observe.

Can anyone tell me if this is legit concerns??

Never ever. More technology means more complexity, which is not the solution. It is the problem.

Societies - as the opposite of humanity - have never been something different than 'problem solving societies' (Tainter). Societies are growing rampant, endlessly until the end. They are permanently investing in additional complexity/energy/debt to solve exponentially growing problems. The Game is over as soon as the ever shrinking marginal return of additional complexity/energy/debt reaches the tipping point.



http://dieoff.org/page134.htm

Dark Age is severe deflation, but the difference is that almost nothing has value any more. Food becomes the unit of currency and becomes much more expensive, e.g. rice was money in Japan for about 600 years during its Dark Age. This means the maximization of the division-of-labor collapses back to barter money, which means productivity and new knowledge production collapses.

Agreed there exists now the threat of falling into a Dark Age. And that is why I am working so hard on a technological solution. I know you don't believe it is possible to avoid a Dark Age. You might be correct, but you also might not be. I told you upthread that my strategy is to make it so the hackers can avoid confiscation and control over their activities, so that we can create 1000X more productivity in the Knowledge Age space. I hope this can offset the collapse of 47% into technological unemployment along with a $223 trillion global debt morass with a $2000 trillion derivatives and unfunded future social liabilities.

Wait to see the outcome.

P.S. And I thought I was the pessimist in this forum, you are more pessimistic than me.

You are both entirely mistaken. As soon as we have severe inflation or deflation, the game will be over and dark age begins. Japan and all other 400%-Debt/GDP economies are trying to maintain zero percent inflation until they can't.

If you are really serious to read high quality discussion then AnonyMint, tortilla, DeathAndTaxes, and others make more rational discussions over at:

cryptocrypt.org

You can join by invitation only. You can send tortilla a request for invitation I suppose, if you've exhibited a high signal-to-noise ratio in your posts on this forum.

The solution for anonymity of the block chain (which is not IP anonymity so it is only one component of what we need in an altcoin)...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5670270