Fiat Currency Always Fails - page 6.

eyesninja21

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Quote from: BobK71 on April 03, 2018, 03:42:24 PM

See:

There Is No Escaping History. Fiat Currency Eventually Fails.

Notice that this is a critique of fiat money -- not a critique of state-issued money under a gold/silver or other standard. Fiat money is a rare occurrence in modern history. (We live in strange times!) As we can see, the examples found by the author are a small number of short periods here and there.

I have my own critique of gold/silver standards, but that's another issue.

Any particular fiat currency can fail, and there is a long track record of failure, but fiat currency as a concept is actually just fine, and in fact the most useful way to sort out trade, because it is simply too inefficient to go back to a pure bartering system. On the other hand, technology is deflationary, the cost of goods and services goes down with respect to the total amount of money in the system.

Countries got out of the depression in the exact order in which they left the gold standard. A growing economy needs an ever growing stock of money for transactions.

zubrr51

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The Fiat currency is an imperfect financial model, which is already obsolete. You should pay more attention to digital currencies.

Tukang Becak

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The presence of bitcoin is a good thing for the future of the currency system, with bitcoin then we can transact faster and easily so I hope bitcoin will soon become an international currency.

fauzan Ichsan

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Quote from: farosa on August 31, 2018, 09:04:30 AM

I think these are people's own mistake. They talk about money and paper money there, and if there were digital money instead of them, it would be the same result. The using of digital money will not guarantee that economic problems will not happen in the future.

i think that both of them have their strengths and weaknesses. of course if later the digital currency is used, it will certainly have its drawbacks. but i think the digital currency has advantages for the modern era

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: Moblie_Legend on August 31, 2018, 06:40:56 AM

Quote from: Hell-raiser on August 31, 2018, 05:09:37 AM

Quote from: Kevinvaonav on August 31, 2018, 02:23:33 AM

most people misjudge the example: in our midst, people mistakenly believe that a country's paper money is issued by the government. whereas paper money, as well as coins that are associated with it - and bytes in the computer he created - are issued by the central bank. Most central banks are private companies, privately owned by a group of bankers. more than that, most of the money circulating in the community is no longer in the form of 'physical money' (currency, paper and coins)

Central banks are no more private that governments themselves. They ARE part of the government, or rather ruling elites and establishment. Indeed, such a government may be foreign to a country of the central bank's residence (read the central bank in question may be de facto governed from abroad), but this doesn't take anything from the fact that both the government and the central bank are an integral part of the establishment. To put it differently, it doesn't make sense to distinguish between them in terms of people and elites who are behind them and have real control over them. These are the same people, bankers or whoever, private or otherwise.

As a business risk, fiat money cannot be ignored. What matters is how can this money later act as a medium of exchange for an item, even though it does not have an asset guarantee? This problem then invites thought from market brokers around the world. Please note that money is usually used as a medium of exchange when it has a "Exchange Rate Standard" recognized by the market. As with the history of the previous money that made salt as a medium of exchange, it must have exchange rate standards. In addition, money must also have a nominal value that can be guaranteed

Honestly, I don't quite understand what you want to say in your post. What do you mean by money "having exchange rate standards" and "not having an asset guarantee"? Do you refer to gold or silver backing of a paper currency? It doesn't work simply because gold (silver) doesn't have absolute value or just constant value. The same is equally true in respect to any asset out there. In fact, nothing has absolute (constant) value which would remain the same in any frame of reference (coordinate system) or over any significant amount of time, so the emergence of fiat money which is not backed up by anything is completely justifiable and totally acceptable.

Strictly speaking, money based on or backed up by time makes perfect sense (see In Time movie), but we are far from that.

farosa

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I think these are people's own mistake. They talk about money and paper money there, and if there were digital money instead of them, it would be the same result. The using of digital money will not guarantee that economic problems will not happen in the future.

laracastvue

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Quote from: crazymelons12 on August 31, 2018, 04:12:35 AM

In my opinion if dollar should fail, I don't think other currencies will follow or the entire world will be in a bad economic state. Given that the reason will be the fall of dollar only. There are other countries which I think is sufficient enough to stand in their own and might not be affected should it happen. Yet resources and the entire economy should be stable if all countries will work together.

No, every cryptocurrency are going to fall if bitcoins will drop its value, that is the reason why you should always take advantage of the market invest a huge amount when the market prices are dropping.

Moblie_Legend

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Quote from: Hell-raiser on August 31, 2018, 05:09:37 AM

Quote from: Kevinvaonav on August 31, 2018, 02:23:33 AM

most people misjudge the example: in our midst, people mistakenly believe that a country's paper money is issued by the government. whereas paper money, as well as coins that are associated with it - and bytes in the computer he created - are issued by the central bank. Most central banks are private companies, privately owned by a group of bankers. more than that, most of the money circulating in the community is no longer in the form of 'physical money' (currency, paper and coins)

Central banks are no more private that governments themselves. They ARE part of the government, or rather ruling elites and establishment. Indeed, such a government may be foreign to a country of the central bank's residence (read the central bank in question may be de facto governed from abroad), but this doesn't take anything from the fact that both the government and the central bank are an integral part of the establishment. To put it differently, it doesn't make sense to distinguish between them in terms of people and elites who are behind them and have real control over them. These are the same people, bankers or whoever, private or otherwise.

As a business risk, fiat money cannot be ignored. What matters is how can this money later act as a medium of exchange for an item, even though it does not have an asset guarantee? This problem then invites thought from market brokers around the world. Please note that money is usually used as a medium of exchange when it has a "Exchange Rate Standard" recognized by the market. As with the history of the previous money that made salt as a medium of exchange, it must have exchange rate standards. In addition, money must also have a nominal value that can be guaranteed

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: Kevinvaonav on August 31, 2018, 02:23:33 AM

most people misjudge the example: in our midst, people mistakenly believe that a country's paper money is issued by the government. whereas paper money, as well as coins that are associated with it - and bytes in the computer he created - are issued by the central bank. Most central banks are private companies, privately owned by a group of bankers. more than that, most of the money circulating in the community is no longer in the form of 'physical money' (currency, paper and coins)

Central banks are no more private that governments themselves. They ARE part of the government, or rather ruling elites and establishment. Indeed, such a government may be foreign to a country of the central bank's residence (read the central bank in question may be de facto governed from abroad), but this doesn't take anything from the fact that both the government and the central bank are an integral part of the establishment. To put it differently, it doesn't make sense to distinguish between them in terms of people and elites who are behind them and have real control over them. These are the same people, bankers or whoever, private or otherwise.

crazymelons12

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In my opinion if dollar should fail, I don't think other currencies will follow or the entire world will be in a bad economic state. Given that the reason will be the fall of dollar only. There are other countries which I think is sufficient enough to stand in their own and might not be affected should it happen. Yet resources and the entire economy should be stable if all countries will work together.

Kevinvaonav

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most people misjudge the example: in our midst, people mistakenly believe that a country's paper money is issued by the government. whereas paper money, as well as coins that are associated with it - and bytes in the computer he created - are issued by the central bank. Most central banks are private companies, privately owned by a group of bankers. more than that, most of the money circulating in the community is no longer in the form of 'physical money' (currency, paper and coins)

valentine401

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Quote from: Airbuxf on August 24, 2018, 11:23:27 AM

Quote from: marinomario on April 03, 2018, 05:04:31 PM

In my opinion As long as fiat money still serves as a medium of exchange, it will always be needed by the people of today and therefore it will always have a function as an asset to all of us. although the best value-keeping asset is gold but even though gold is quite liquid, it is no longer money that serves as an intermediary.

It would be good to use gold as payment again or at least money that is backed by gold. Now we are paying with printed debt. It's best to keep your assets in gold and cryptocurrencies in my opinion.

Gold is a bad way for payment because not every people can earn gold and it was really hard to earn gold now a days, cryptocurrency is much better since every one can invest if they have a decent amount of capital.

prtty2gal2

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Quote from: Ayush rana on August 28, 2018, 10:51:01 AM

I don't think fiat always fails, you can see fiat has been using for buying and selling goods and services since centuries. Fiat currency actually create a centralised system for people and it provide system to do business. i Know why you said this statement because recent years there was a collasp of economy and Europe crysis, Venezuela currency fails. But because of few fails we can't say always fails.
well i support fiat as well as crypto.

Oh Please! That is what they want you to believe. Fiat has been doing extremely poor in the past and will keep doing so in the future. Just as the article rightly mentioned by the OP, government prints fiat money that isn’t backed by any value which obviously ensues disaster in this regard and just to be able to contain it, they keep printing even more as time goes on.

The huge interference, monopoly, and control of government in this case as well as the high extent of devaluation, are just some of the quick reasons why its closeness to getting screwed is inevitable.

Ranly123

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Quote from: BobK71 on April 03, 2018, 03:42:24 PM

See:

There Is No Escaping History. Fiat Currency Eventually Fails.

Notice that this is a critique of fiat money -- not a critique of state-issued money under a gold/silver or other standard. Fiat money is a rare occurrence in modern history. (We live in strange times!) As we can see, the examples found by the author are a small number of short periods here and there.

I have my own critique of gold/silver standards, but that's another issue.

Maybe on history, paper money tends to be no value because of the coins they are using which is gold, silver and bronze. Those precious metals are very valuable than paper that's why authorities of centuries ago make it hard to make a value out of paper. But as you can see today, paper money is very valuable and I don't believe that is would fail.

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: KS03 on August 28, 2018, 09:12:01 PM

Yup all fiats fail and they usually fail around the 40 year mark. We are well past that as the clock started ticking in 1971. Once the US Dollar goes down all hell is gonna break loose.

The US dollar won't go down until the US itself disintegrates and implodes. It has been discussed in great detail and at great length a few pages back in this very thread. A fiat currency is not going anywhere until and unless the government behind it collapses. Fiat currency decay is a direct result and outcome of the ultimate failure of the state but definitely not its cause. Everyone who claims to the contrary should go learn history (Roman Empire, Weimar Republic, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, etc).

The bottom line is that while the US economy is strong, there's absolutely no reason to think that the dollar is going to fail any time soon. Don't be delusional or lost in pipe-dreams about that thing. ZeroHedge and outlets like it have incessantly been crying wolf for years without any real ground supporting their claims.

KS03

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Hi I'm KS03

Yup all fiats fail and they usually fail around the 40 year mark. We are well past that as the clock started ticking in 1971. Once the US Dollar goes down all hell is gonna break loose.

Ayush rana

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I don't think fiat always fails, you can see fiat has been using for buying and selling goods and services since centuries. Fiat currency actually create a centralised system for people and it provide system to do business. i Know why you said this statement because recent years there was a collasp of economy and Europe crysis, Venezuela currency fails. But because of few fails we can't say always fails.
well i support fiat as well as crypto.

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: Sengoko on July 28, 2018, 02:49:06 AM

Some of you guys in this forum are full-time dumbos. So you think that when dollar falls that means that it is over for the whole world and that Bitcoin and other crypto currencies will come and take over ? Sounds like something only a dumb person would say. How can you be thinking that? Whenever dollar falls, the value of Yen and Euro will appreciate. Bitcoin is not a real currency, it’s just like something else made to be on its own and when you’re using it you’re in complete control of your money and not the government being in control.

Well, I agree and disagree with you on that point at the same time, about Bitcoin not being a real currency. I agree that at the moment Bitcoin can hardly be considered a genuine currency on purely practical reasons. You can't buy things with it directly, that means Bitcoin doesn't circulate but this is what the term itself (currency) stands for. On the other hand, there is nothing which would prevent Bitcoin from becoming a currency, there is nothing in it inherently which would not allow it to become one. It may not be a very good currency overall due to its deflationary nature (and a few other issues), but this is a completely different story.

skish85

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Do not forget that the money at the moment is more stable and more secure than crypto-currencies. They do not tolerate any setbacks. The dollar and the euro are growing - they are all fine.

BobK71

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Quote from: hhussain on July 16, 2018, 12:51:06 PM

The fiat currency has never failed Howard it just an evolution from the phase of the global economy know when you look at the phase of the fair it is just an evolution from the barter trade system and this is just a symbolism of the fact that democratic form of currency always prevails in this system

It is true, that we have no choice but to use 'fiat' money and trust it, at least to some extent. As Paul Krugman said, fiat money is backed by men with guns.

It's also true that the incentives for the elites are always to inflate and devalue 'fiat' money, so we have to diversify our savings to protect ourselves. (But never put all your eggs in one basket: you never know how long each bubble will last -- some bubbles are backed by the full power of the global empire.) See The Real Reason to Hold Gold and Bitcoin.

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