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Topic: Fiat Currency Always Fails - page 9. (Read 2101 times)

sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 515
May 13, 2018, 03:48:22 PM
Quote from: BobK71
'Massives retreats' notwithstanding, the overall pattern from 1913 (the Federal Reserve's founding) to today is that the stable-over-long-period dollar price of gold went from $22, to $35, to around $300, to around $1000.  Call it whatever you like, we have never left the gold standard de facto, because we can't, and we have been continuously devaluing the dollar against gold to keep the system stable.

From $22 to $1000, the dollar lost 98% of its value against gold.  I'll let that speak for itself.

Are you serious? That devaluation lasted for over 100 years, which gives you less than 1 percent annually. In fact, it is even less than that if you take into account compounding. For example, 1% devaluation in the last year would be equal to 10 dollars in absolute values. How many currencies do you know that would last as long and are as stable? If you account for real price inflation, you will see that gold gets devalued too, though in a lesser degree. You let the figures speak for themselves but you don't tell all the figures, but half-truths are worse than outright lies. You forget to mention how much wages increased since 1913. Recalculate the current price of gold in terms of, for example, hourly wages, and you will see how much gold appreciated in real terms.

Just do it, and you will be surprised how badly gold fared. It depreciated almost 2 times in terms of real purchasing power, and you simply can't say that it is what "establishment commentators like to say". These are the real figures, which you choose to ignore.
newbie
Activity: 168
Merit: 0
May 13, 2018, 10:26:14 AM
See:

There Is No Escaping History.  Fiat Currency Eventually Fails.

Notice that this is a critique of fiat money -- not a critique of state-issued money under a gold/silver or other standard.  Fiat money is a rare occurrence in modern history.  (We live in strange times!)  As we can see, the examples found by the author are a small number of short periods here and there.

I have my own critique of gold/silver standards, but that's another issue.
We never know the stability of fiat currency will be stable on its value,but as long as the fiat currency still serve to the people everything is in progressive function and asset to us.
sr. member
Activity: 1428
Merit: 251
May 13, 2018, 06:50:58 AM
Fiat money always have less purchase power because inflation. Inflation because central banks always printing money and they reason is want to boost economy growth and thats why bitcoin using decentralized system because no one can control the supply
member
Activity: 203
Merit: 17
May 13, 2018, 05:57:56 AM
Yes, and it contolled by government, for example economy of my country based on the oil, the price of the oil changed up, but my fiat currency is the same vs dollar, so i do not trust the fiat, the prices didnt changed, and they will go up dosnt matter whats happening out of there
full member
Activity: 588
Merit: 104
May 13, 2018, 05:35:49 AM
Yeah indeed. That is why gold has bern the most famous investment method for centuries it does not loose its value in long term. Never...
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 515
May 13, 2018, 03:40:40 AM
Quote from: BobK71
This is what establishment commentators like to say.  Gold and Bitcoin are just investments.  They are not money.  My question is: if they're not money, what are they?  They don't allow you to live inside (like real estate.)  They don't claim a share of company profits and equity (like stocks,) and they don't claim a future stream of debt repayment (like bonds.)  Why do they have value?

You seem to get stuck with that tune ("what establishment commentators like to say"). I don't know what they say, I don't even know whom you refer to exactly. I proceed from my own understanding and it's pretty much in line with the history of money. Gold and Bitcoin are investment assets. Gold is basically a risk-free asset, while Bitcoin is a highly risky one. Gold is to preserve wealth, it is not expected to rise on its own unless things go awry in a major way. This is why gold has investment value. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a speculative asset, and it gains such value, speculative value, because people expect its price to rise in the future. For the record, with most stocks it is essentially along the same line. Traders buy stocks as they hope their market value will surge in the future, while dividends (which are not guaranteed) come as a nice bonus, if ever.

I'm really surprised that you ask such questions.

Quote from: BobK71
You can slap whatever label you want on something, but the inner reality is always what really matters in the end.  Gold has value because of its monetary nature.

Apart from jewelry, most of gold value comes from its ability to preserve value in situations of economic collapse and meltdown. This has nothing to do with its monetary nature due to its near-complete absence nowadays.
full member
Activity: 686
Merit: 107
May 12, 2018, 06:47:53 PM
as we know fiat money will remain in guanakan function only if bitcoin more received in a country then it can be ensured fiat money will be set aside by virtual money
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
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May 12, 2018, 06:45:08 PM
Interesting article about fiat. It can be concluded that a constantly growing amount of paper money leads to a global crisis as a bomb with a deferred action. Perhaps we are a generation that will witness and take part in the global change of the monetary system.
I agree and I am very excited to see the world go cashless , Honestly I hate a paper money because I can't maximize it fully and I can easily lost it when I misplaced it however if we go digital I can maximize my money until it last centavo and I dont need to remind myself  everyday where will I place my money because it is already on my digital wallet , amazing isn't it ?
full member
Activity: 405
Merit: 105
May 12, 2018, 06:42:12 PM
Fial is outdated yes it's true, but fiat is stable more stable than bitcoin. But i still believe that crypto currencies will actually catch up and dethrone fiat as a way to exchange goods and services. I just hope that fiat will crash the same time as crypto currencies become strong enough to be a global currency.
Gone are the days when countries print money due to the Gold deposits, but now they just print almost whenever they want and from what the articles goes on to say it means that the entire world economy is in crisis.
Fiat still ahead to bitcoin even bitcoin has a high value. Because not everyone likes bitcoin there are still people who want fiat currency than it. Fiat was a strong type of currency that was supported by the government. Sad but true that the endless printing of money was only depending to the wants of the government.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1179
May 12, 2018, 06:31:47 PM
Gone are the days when countries print money due to the Gold deposits, but now they just print almost whenever they want and from what the articles goes on to say it means that the entire world economy is in crisis.
The thing with endless money printing is that governments can basically keep stretching (delaying) the destructive effects, but eventually the system will implode where the entire world economy will suffer badly.

It's not for nothing that those who are smart enough use gold as preferred hedge. In recent years Bitcoin has been gaining importance as hedge as well, and that awareness will only keep increasing.

Physical gold requires people to store it in a bank's safe deposit box, which in some cases applies to paper gold as well, and so do I think Bitcoin will end up like that ~ people just don't feel comfortable holding that much wealth.

It definitely wouldn't surprise me. I know people who store their hardware wallets in safe deposit box, which is definitely a no go for someone like me.
sr. member
Activity: 868
Merit: 266
May 12, 2018, 06:20:04 PM
Fial is outdated yes it's true, but fiat is stable more stable than bitcoin. But i still believe that crypto currencies will actually catch up and dethrone fiat as a way to exchange goods and services. I just hope that fiat will crash the same time as crypto currencies become strong enough to be a global currency.
Gone are the days when countries print money due to the Gold deposits, but now they just print almost whenever they want and from what the articles goes on to say it means that the entire world economy is in crisis.
jr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 1
May 12, 2018, 06:16:56 PM
Interesting article about fiat. It can be concluded that a constantly growing amount of paper money leads to a global crisis as a bomb with a deferred action. Perhaps we are a generation that will witness and take part in the global change of the monetary system.
full member
Activity: 476
Merit: 100
May 12, 2018, 06:08:23 PM
Fial is outdated yes it's true, but fiat is stable more stable than bitcoin. But i still believe that crypto currencies will actually catch up and dethrone fiat as a way to exchange goods and services. I just hope that fiat will crash the same time as crypto currencies become strong enough to be a global currency.
full member
Activity: 644
Merit: 100
May 12, 2018, 06:04:39 PM
See:

There Is No Escaping History.  Fiat Currency Eventually Fails.

Notice that this is a critique of fiat money -- not a critique of state-issued money under a gold/silver or other standard.  Fiat money is a rare occurrence in modern history.  (We live in strange times!)  As we can see, the examples found by the author are a small number of short periods here and there.

I have my own critique of gold/silver standards, but that's another issue.
can not be denied that the FIAT currency is experiencing a lot of dark history, but in my opinion it is also influenced by many fator such as war that happened, then it will automatically weaken the exchange rate of the currency, it is just one example of things that affect the strength FIAT money currency, I think it will be the same with digital currency value is greatly influenced by many facto, if only now the war and some mines are destroyed then the value of digital currency will also be destroyed
legendary
Activity: 3122
Merit: 1140
May 12, 2018, 03:46:47 PM
Fiat currency has aways been there since the bginning and it stil there up to now for as long as people could use it for their everyday transactions in life it would still be there not unless there is changes in currency that government itself abolish it and exchange it to virtual currency...anything can happen we never know.

Physical gold and silver are objectively the best money.  The 'problem' for the elites is that they can't profit much from a gold and silver monetary system.

This is analogous to medicine in a sense.  Cannibis (marajuana) is a natural pain killer that has proved itself over the centuries.  The 'problem' is that there's no profit for drug companies and not much extra power for politicians who regulate it.  So it has been banned until popular demand is so great in the US that the ban is slowly being removed.

The system prefers artificial pain killers, with all their side-effects and problems of addiction, because they give power to the elites.  It's the same with money.
A very precise illustration or connection that you do mention on here which i do completely agree on this one. On all sorts of things which elites wont see any benefits or money profits for them then its normal for them to make a move to get rid of it and do let get inside on things which will make them more wealthy. We cant do anything about it but to witness that dumb thing this why its always been part of the society on this kind of system.Making a change would definitely stay up on my own dreams.
newbie
Activity: 49
Merit: 0
May 12, 2018, 03:38:39 PM
Paper currency encourages violent crime by making robbery pay off and drug dealing and illegal immigration profitable; by giving criminals an easy to use means of payment, Rogoff pointed out. In The Curse of Cash; he noted that the Swedish government greatly reduced the number of bank robberies by simply lowering the amount of cash in circulation, which made such crimes less profitable.

Ironically, this is a claim that is leveled at Bitcoin and other Cryptocurrencies, that they facilitate crime when it reality cash is by far the largest method or exchange for criminals.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 515
May 12, 2018, 03:36:55 PM
It is in the interest of the establishment to manipulate all price levels to make it *appear* that their issued money has the most stable value.  This has been going on for about 500 years and is nothing new.  The gold and silver standards over the centuries were just very good versions of today's not-so-elegant manipulations.

What matters here is whether the economy grows over the long term. If it comes about through manipulation, then so be it. It looks like you fail to understand that the manipulators ("the elites") are in the same boat with the manipulated ones. They are also vitally interested in the growth of the economy at large. Or do you really think that kings and rulers lived better lives than most people today in the developed world?

This is a key point.  Growth is a function of advances in technology, management, etc. and in its natural state needs have nothing to do with the monetary system.  What state-money has done is to create artificially fast growth, during the inflationary phase of the asset bubble.  We are incentivized to buy things we don't really need.  When the asset bubble eventually crashes, we have economic pain.

I somewhat agree with you that a monetary system should not create an artificial growth, though this is a separate and very complex topic in itself, with arguments both in favor and against such growth. But how does it challenge my point that the elites are also interested in the common good over the long term? Besides, the problem with a limited-supply monetary system is that it heavily interferes with the economic growth. Basically, money should make economic relationships easier or, at the very least, not stand in the way. However, a limited-supply currency takes away some percentage of economic growth as it rewards holders for just holding that currency.

But if you reward someone, you should necessarily take from someone else. There is no free lunch. In this case you take some share of the revenue from producers who are actually doing something useful and give it to someone who doesn't do anything productive, who does nothing apart from sitting on their money. Why should they get rewarded?
hero member
Activity: 2128
Merit: 655
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
May 12, 2018, 09:27:06 AM
Fiat currency has aways been there since the bginning and it stil there up to now for as long as people could use it for their everyday transactions in life it would still be there not unless there is changes in currency that government itself abolish it and exchange it to virtual currency...anything can happen we never know.

Physical gold and silver are objectively the best money.  The 'problem' for the elites is that they can't profit much from a gold and silver monetary system.

This is analogous to medicine in a sense.  Cannibis (marajuana) is a natural pain killer that has proved itself over the centuries.  The 'problem' is that there's no profit for drug companies and not much extra power for politicians who regulate it.  So it has been banned until popular demand is so great in the US that the ban is slowly being removed.

The system prefers artificial pain killers, with all their side-effects and problems of addiction, because they give power to the elites.  It's the same with money.
full member
Activity: 406
Merit: 100
CRYPTOBLADES Octoblades 10.10
May 11, 2018, 09:28:36 PM
Fiat currency has aways been there since the bginning and it stil there up to now for as long as people could use it for their everyday transactions in life it would still be there not unless there is changes in currency that government itself abolish it and exchange it to virtual currency...anything can happen we never know.
newbie
Activity: 182
Merit: 0
May 11, 2018, 09:28:12 PM
See:

There Is No Escaping History.  Fiat Currency Eventually Fails.

Notice that this is a critique of fiat money -- not a critique of state-issued money under a gold/silver or other standard.  Fiat money is a rare occurrence in modern history.  (We live in strange times!)  As we can see, the examples found by the author are a small number of short periods here and there.

I have my own critique of gold/silver standards, but that's another issue.
Problems is just a part of our daily lives. So I could not say that the reason behind that is because of fiat money. We are using it for good. But if there are other ways to solve the worlds problem and it will be using other currency instead of fiat, and if it will be for the common good then why not?
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