Topic: First Asic for SIA - Obelisk SC1 - page 24. (Read 29212 times)

It's nice to be nice. Happy to see the power of forums to resolve conflicts...

Not to rehash the whole affair, but it seems that this thread is not alone in voicing an anti-ASIC backlash. The backlash was such that David Vorick (from Sia Coin) wrote this blog post on the subject.

Enjoy

https://blog.sia.tech/choosing-asics-for-sia-b318505b5b51

Sadly is the "thousands of MegaWatts" that keeps the price as it is, electricity is expensive, concerning "securing a blockchain", I believe is in the power of millions of peers and not in hundreds of them, but that is my opinion on the matter. Good discussion with you and by the way I apologize if I disrespected you in any way 

Best wishes ;-)

Keep calm buddy, I am not part of the team or are related anyhow to it. Nice you have a PhD in computer science. Mine is in Molecular Biology, and we are just two users having a calmed discussion about ASICs. I am also a an anti-ASIC but for the simple reason it is the start of a technology race that ends up wasting thousands of MegaWatts. And be sure by any means I will buy one for that reason.

What I am discussing is just that from the perspective of securing a blockchain, using a dedicated hardware instead general computers can have advantages. There are pros, there are cons, and it is nice to discuss about them.

Best wishes ;-)


EDIT --> No problem at all, Metroid ;-)

That is a very good excuse for the sia asics. The 51% attack is not only to kill the coin, is also to pump and manipulate its value and in turn make it a mafia coin. If you people are trying to find an excuse to implement and make the people, miners, investors to accept it, you people need to try it harder cause as i have a phd in computer science, you trolls will never convince me because there is nothing good about asics in any way concerning crypto. I'm an anti-asic person, things should never be controlled by few and yet that is how many asic coins are and in their long term they are bound to die. The same thing can be said about LTC, if it was not for asics then ltc value would be around $500 now or probably more.

If the price point and power requirements are right for me as I said previously, I believe in the SIA architecture and will likely be buying one as soon as pre order goes live.

I hope it's cheap

28NM is also a matured process making production easier than 16/14nm, possibly lowering costs. Unless there's a serious competitor that comes out for this ASIC, it will do fine. Remember Bitmain started at around .78W/GH at 28nm with the S3 and dropped to .25W/GH at 28nm with the S7.

Check the thread, seriously, it may give you a different perspective. What is good for a big coin like ETH may not be good for small coins. If they fall in small hands you are right. But currently, most of GPU mining is of big centralized farms too.

Also, there is another factor: the value of the ASIC depends on the value of the coin. With GPUs, I do a 51% attack on ETH, I will make the price of ETH to dump, but I can still resell my GPUs to gamers or computation centers. With ASICs, if I do a 51% attack... I will have tons of useless and worthless hardware around in the aftermath :-P

Oh boy... ohhh boy..Thanks for the info. Can't wait to find out Price, lead time, hash rate so they can shut up and take my money.

I was about to purchase another L3+, but now I'm thinking of pre-orderibg this instead for the novelty, diversification... not to mention FOMO appeasement...

You know that with asics the chances are much higher right? few people can totally obliterated the network and so on, Its very unlike any of the 3 biggest pools will get a 51% stake as for asics yes, they can do that with few resources. GPU mining is the most secure cause anybody owns a gpu and can mine and secure the network, now for asics only selected few and if they group each other then bye bye.

If asics come to SIAcoin then will it end? My guess is in the long term yes, see how sha256 coins are done for? nobody invest on them, there is no way to control the asics.

No it is not for small coins. Sia mining network is equivalent to 1/8th of the total GPUs mining ETH.

That means that if any of the 3 biggest ETH mining pools turns to mine SIA, they can instantly do a 51% attack.

There are several other reasons to explain why GPUs are bad for the security of small coins. Check the post I mentioned of the dev team: https://blog.sia.tech/choosing-asics-for-sia-b318505b5b51

You wrong about that, market is not how used to be, asics meant game over, nowadays asics mean will it end?. LTC horders crashed it because most of them felt it was game over, this time is different. However this asic sia is bad cause gpu mining is the most secure way to secure the network but i guess they will see that as the time goes but i guess they know it, also the sia devs want to cash on the asics, so meaning part of the asic mining will go to them. The problem will be when they cant control the sia asics anymore.

A very well-funded and explained opinion, of course. The crypto-world needs more people like you  

They can fuck themself, their shitcoin storage nobody will ever use, and their fuckin miner.

Greedy useless devs.

Webpage of Obelisk is finally live: https://obelisk.tech/

Tomorrow they will release the rest of the info.

Pre-orders start in 6 days

EDIT --> BTW, this is the explanation of why they are releasing an ASIC: https://blog.sia.tech/choosing-asics-for-sia-b318505b5b51 It is a question of protecting the network from attacks. GPU mining can be dangerous for small coins in that sense

If this "first ASIC" is built on an older process node like 55nm, it's not going to be a huge cost or risk to whoever designed it.

Keep in mind that the Baikal is 28nm yet sells faster than Baikal can make them right now because it's the best performance option currently available.


 The Gridseed GC3355 back in Scrypt days was a 55nm device - yet Gridseed appears to have made a TON of money on them before folks started selling 28nm ASIC (KNC, Innosilicon A2, Alcheminer, among others).


 I don't see ASIC having ANY price effect on SIA - they will affect PROFITABILITY but that's not the same thing at all.



 There are quite a few coins that have dedicated ASIC - all SHA-256 coins (NOT just Bitcoin), ALL Scrypt coins (Litecoin, Doge, DGB among MANY others), ALL X11 coins (DASH and some more have MULTIPLE ASIC devices available for them - and the Baikal ASIC also does X13/X15/Qubit and 1 or 2 more algos (DGB I know has a qubit option).

 Litecoin price did NOT explode when ASIC showed up for it - it was dropping slowly from it's ATH by that point and CONTINUED to drop 'till it eventually got down to around $2 for a long time.  (it kicked up into the $3.50-$5 range after the halfing, and STAYED there for about a year, then SegWit adoption got approved and it started jumping).

 DASH - price didn't change any more than it's normal variability when ASIC showed up for it, but that's when I dropped GPU mining on X11 as it became totally unPROFITABLE very quickly.

 I'm not sure on the timing for Bitcoin vs ASIC, but I'm sure that the price did not change because ASIC showed up for it, ASIC showed up for it because it's price was rising enough to make it a good risk for ASIC makers TO make machines for it.

 It could be argued that DOGE died in part due to ASIC - the final nail in the coffin for DOGE was when they decided to make it merge-mineable, it's not been worth more than some small number of Satoshi since.

I hear ya. I'm trying to dual mine and stack as much Siacoin now in anticipation of the upcoming Asic. I figure since they're just announcing it now, so we may have some lead time to GPU mine some a relatively good amount. If the asics raise the difficulty of the blockchain, then the amount of Sia you can gpu mine BEFORE the asics come on line should still be somewhat significant... especially if the price shoots up down the road.

What kind of rig(s) / set up are you currently using? hash rate? Can you recommend any adjustments, pools, gpu models etc thatchave helped?

Thanks in advance for any and all input you can give.

I'm sad I wont be able to dual mine Sia with Claymore after they ASICs are released but, if this ends up driving up their market share and increasing the price per coin then that is good in the long run.

At the very least, the announcement of the ASIC miner has generated a lot of attention towards Sia which could potentially bring a lot more miners and users into the system which will be good for it.

It's a good question... What affect WILL ASICS have to the price of Sia?

Of course it's hard to say definitively what will happen to the price of any alt coin; crypto currency is such a new asset class, it's all uncharted territory. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling himself...

That being said and at the risk of stating the obvious, there are only THREE (3) coins to currently have devoted ASIC miners: Bitcoin, Dash and Litecoin.

All three coins EXPLODED in price after ASICs were added to their blockchain... They continue to rise in price now, even as their 1st and 2nd generation ASICs are updated and replaced with more powerful machines.

As the Freakinomics guys would point out, "correlation does not mean causation", and umbrellas don't make it rain. Just because those three coins exploded in price after ASICs were introduced to their blockchain, doesn't (necessarily) mean that asics on a network MAKE the price of a coin go up... (tho they may help).

Companies like Baikal, Antminer, Zeus, Pinidea etc. STARTED producing asics for those algo BECAUSE they were winning coins in the first place. The ASICs didn't hurt their price, and it's possible they helped by strengthening the coins infrastructures, heigthening security etc.

While the big money players seem to be dominating BTC hash (see Bitfury's Blockbox), I don't think the same can be said for Dash and Litecoin; at least not yet.

As for what ASICs mean for Sia coin... well, I think this'll in the very least raise awareness for Sia among people like us... I for one was rather unfamiliar with Sia Coin prior to the announcement... My opinion of Sia, and outlook wfor its future has drastically changed this week. I gotta think I'm not alone..

Asics will also help build out their data storage infrastructure... tho I admit, I'm not really sure how all that works.

TLDR : I think these Asics are an indication Sia will soon be valued similar to larger market cap alt coins already thriving in the data storage crypto coin sector. look to those coins for a near term price indication.

So what would happen to the initial price of Sia once ASICS are released into the wild both short-term and long-term?

Once things get centralized towards the big miners, I fear that prices are going to tank given the huge influx of coins being released. Yeah things will taper off once difficulty increases but that won't be for awhile. The only public response from Taek on how it effects prices in his response to another Reddit poster seems to be that "inflation" is lower than other coins, which doesn't inspire much confidence. I interpret it as either a "nobody knows" or "it will be fine in the long-run".

Anybody familiar with how prices were like when ASICS were first released on the market with Bitcoin and Litecoin?

Maybe a history lesson would help.