Topic: FIRST Peer-2-Peer betting website. NO HOUSE & NO DEALER 1$ UNLIMITED GAINS - page 2. (Read 1785 times)

Seriously?


Do some googling.  Research your competition, figure out why some have been around for years and maintain a great reputations with a solid player base and others are ghost towns (or already folded) and have a bad reputation. 

Find the people that developed the successful sites and ask them for advice, many of them would be very willing to help you out - but only if you stop being such an asshole.

Which are those resources you pointed out to me? There s not a single reference.

Regarding this:


Quote from: betroom.eu on Today at 01:01:11 AM
I m not lashing anyone

Couple examples:

Quote from: betroom.eu on January 09, 2020, 08:34:35 AM
Are you on drugs or something? You are clearly out of your fucking mind to even state stupid shit like this. If you want to at least "look" intelligent, better shut up.

Quote
This guy is as stupid as they come.


Quote from: betroom.eu on January 09, 2020, 08:34:35 AM
Dismantling your shit:

Quote from: betroom.eu on January 09, 2020, 08:34:35 AM
I m not sure if you are hired by a casino to do this yourself but you sure sound like it.



I feel you want to hurt rather than help. When i asked direct questions you made a detour, you didn t answer them. Definitely you had no solution to the Rocket Crash problem that i need the random number in advance to sustain the kind of game play available right now, you mumbled something unrelated when i told you that buying more tickets means a better winning chance (indeed means less winning chances for the rest, but for somebody to win, somebody else has to lose). Accept true statements as they come, admit they are true and come up with solutions, don t just mumble around. I m waiting for solutions and direct references which you failed to give.

Couple examples:

I m not lashing anyone, it s just the structure of the game that does not allow for a fully "fair" solution. There s also the part where i "guarantee" my users that i do not create account to bet against them. I don t think anyone can help me with this. If someone can, i m going to gladly accept advice.

I've pointed you towards a bunch of resources that will help you figure out how to do it.  There are plenty of developers around here that are experts in provably fair solutions that I'm sure would be happy to give you feed back.  Of course this is assuming you're able to accept constructive criticism without lashing out and insulting the person trying to help you.

i know how to implement it but there s a big problem, as i told you before, with Rocket Crash. In order to keep the game interactive, as it is right now, in the sense that people jump off the rocket in real time, i need to "know" the number before the player does. Why? Because i divide that number into smaller parts such that i can send each unit to the player and not send him the whole number cause he would know when to jump. So, for example, say the provably fair algo generates the number 62. I am sending each tenth of a second 1 unit to the player so that after 62 tenths (6.2 seconds) the player gets to 62, where the rocket crashes. I cannot send the whole number cause a hacker will crack the system, he will know when the rocket will crash and use it to his advantage. That s why i send the number bit by bit. Players can jump off the rocket until the rocket gets to the crashing point (62 in this case). The last person to jump off the rocket wins. The problem with the provably fair system comes now with the way the game is structured. I need to know the number in advance in order to divide it and send it, bit by bit, unit by unit, to the user. If i don t know the number in advance, i can t construct the game dynamically as it is right now. It would be a static game where the user places the bet before the random number generation.  I want the game to be dynamic, to allow players to jump off the rocket in real time, not to choose numbers beforehand and then wait. Do you have any solution for this?

If you implement it properly, it should prevent anyone from being able to manipulate or know the outcome of a bet before all the players.

Allow each player to choose their own seed and then use those seeds to determine the result of each game.  I don't think you would need a server seed since you will always have 2 or more player seeds, I could be wrong about that.
After the game is complete, reveal all seeds used so that players can verify the result independently.

I've pointed you towards a bunch of resources that will help you figure out how to do it.  There are plenty of developers around here that are experts in provably fair solutions that I'm sure would be happy to give you feed back.  Of course this is assuming you're able to accept constructive criticism without lashing out and insulting the person trying to help you.


If you're taking 3% of every bet, your average players EV will be 97%.  If some players find a way increase their EV, other players EV will drop below 97%, just like any other p.

I'm not interested in debating this any more.

I am implementing the "provably fair" system right now, it s gonna be ready this week. Though it s not gonna do much good for some of the games, but it will for others. As i said, 100% fairness and transparency is the goal. I built this platform exactly on these grounds, since it s a peer-to-peer platform.

In regards to ticket prices and house edge, check out my calculation, you haven t said anything about it. As i said before, more tickets, more chances to win.

Again as i told you, the "provably fair" system does not prevent me from cheating. Give me personalised solution that will prevent me from knowing the result in advance and also prevent me to create accounts to bet against my clients. If you have a viable solution for that, i WILL program it. I m waiting for your answer.

I did not say that.  Let me be more clear.  If you don't implement a provably fair system that can be verified, your product is interesting and looks good, but it will not be competitive in the crypto based gambling market if you do not have a provably fair system in place that prevents the possibility of you, or any other player from knowing the result of a game before hand.  It doesn't matter whether or not you actually cheat, the fact that you could will hurt you.

If you continue to insist that provably fair betting is worthless, your reputation will suffer.

If you continue to personally attack and retaliate against  people who criticize you, your reputation will suffer.  (Expect lots of criticism, some valid and some not valid, it's inevitable that you will be accused of outright cheating on a regular basis)

You're competing against sites that have been established for years and don't do any of these things.   For every one successful site there have been dozens who have come and gone for doing the things I've pointed out to you.

Don't take my criticism personally.  

Paying someone to post an article about your site that is written as if it's an objective third party review is deceptive and will be a turn off to many members of the crypto-gambling community.  I suggest spending your promotional budget more transparently. 


No, it's not.  You're just using the built in math.random() function to pick a random number.  It would be incredibly easy to know the what the number is before the game, and then use a player account to win or tie every single game.

Of course, if you decided to cheat, it would be silly to win every game because then nobody else would ever win.  But if you cheated one out of every 50 games, using different player accounts, it would be impossible to prove.

In the crypto gambling world there have been tons of cheating scandals so asking people to just 'trust you' won't work and your argument of 'why would I cheat? I'm taking a 3% fee' is invalid and will only make people distrust you.

Of course the house always wins.  They profit x% of every dollar wagered. They either have an edge in games where the player plays against the house(black jack, craps, roulette for example) and in other or they take a fee in games where players play against each other (In poker cash games they take a percentage of each pot, and in tournaments (can be any game, but usually poker) they take a fee from every buyin and put the rest in the prize pool.

Your site offers the latter.

There's nothing revolutionary about this.  Your players are playing for a prize worth 97% of what they paid, so the expected value of your players is 97%.  It's possible some players will successfully exploit other players and have an EV higher than 97%, but that just means the other players expected value wiil be less than 97%.

There's nothing unethical about this business model.  But it is unethical to advertise it as something it isn't, which is what you are doing.

Peer-to-peer means Betroom NEVER bets against its users, the users bet against themselves. Betroom only takes a 3% fee for selling tickets. Tickets are needed to join the games. The new update, which came about today, offers the players who buy more tickets an edge (please check the specifics above in this thread). The games are designed to accommodate an unlimited amount of players, therefore a potentially unlimited pot. The games are fast-paced, a game starts every 20 seconds if the minimum number of players is met (10 at least). If nobody jumps or nobody manages to jump, the pot will roll over to the next game. Pots ALWAYS roll over to the next game, Betroom NEVER takes a dime from the pots. The pots belong ONLY to the players. Betroom is IMPARTIAL, Betroom does not favour anyone, Betroom does NOT care who wins the pot. You can call the 3% a house edge if you will, but this "edge" is not an edge anymore for the player who buys the highest amount of tickets. The formula was given above to show what edge the highest bidder has in each game. The more tickets you buy, the higher the edge (up to a certain point - again please check this thread above for additional information).

Sorry, but can you please explain exactly how this P2P works on your site? How is this possible in games like Rocket Run?

You say that there is no rake only 3% fee but isn't it the same in the end?

Additionally, you have explained above that in Rocket Run: "the winner is the player that jumps last off the rocket before it crashes", so what happens with the money in the pot if nobody jumps off?

EDIT
I see many answers to my questions provided above, funny because I haven't seen them before posting.


Thanks for this explanation.

New article guys, please check it out!

https://news.livecoinwatch.com/a-player-centric-model-by-betroom/

Researching & Developing for YOU
The platform is in continuous development to make way for the new era of online betting. We made very important CHANGES that we want to inform you about.

1. Every additional ticket bought costs 1% less than the previous one.
Observation: The implications are HUGE, here's how it works:

If you buy 20 tickets it costs you roughly 17 Betcoins and if you play against 10 other players that buy 1 ticket each it costs them 10 Betcoins in total. Your risk/reward ratio is 17/10 and your winners/losers ratio is 2:1. If you account for Betroom's 3% (6% out of your profits) it leads to a winning system for the player who buys more tickets (33 betcoins profit for the 2:1 player to be exact every 33 matches played).

2. Games start IF AND ONLY IF there are at least 10 players (player bots) joining. This means that a minimum pot is guaranteed

If you feel we can do something to make this a better experience for you, don t hesitate, drop us an email at [email protected] and we'll take notice of your feedback.

Relate to this:


There are a few points i want to make:

1. What IS important is knowing both the risk/reward ratio and winners/losers ratio. As i point out in my formula this calculates exactly what your profit will be, over time, on average, per match.
Now, going to the casino example we were talking about, i haven t seen lottery games giving away prizes worth their ticket sales value, except when there s no winner for a long period of time and past pots are added to upcoming ones. That s why i m saying that the HOUSE never loses, it wins over time (house edge).

2. I have changed ticket prices with the new update (already updated) so that each ticket is 1% less than the previous. As i showed a previous example of this, the more tickets you buy up to a certain point (see above) , you CAN and SHOULD make money over time, given the fact that your buying power is more than the others' BUT according to the above formula i put forth.

So, all in all, you bashed my work for absolutely no reason, you were wrong about your statements, especially that i lack transparency. You thought you found your scammer, but you didn t. But what did bother me actually is that you came in banging on the door WITHOUT your homework done. I don t demand any apologies from you cause you are definitely NOT the kind of person to admit when you re wrong, even though you were wrong from start to finish.

Let the facts talk for themselves and people be the judge of all this!

The way i WAS going to implement is the same way Alex Cambose proposes it:

https://medium.com/@alexcambose/provably-fair-system-in-javascript-6457e028d2aa


"Each result is generated using the following parameters:
client-seed — a randomly generated selection of text that you can (and should) modify. This is generated at client/browser level.
server-seed — a randomly generated selection of text (usually a 64-character hex string). This is generated server-side. You will get a hashed version of this before you start gambling, in this way you can make sure that the outcome has been pre-determined and not changed after the result was generated.
nonce — a sequential bet number"

The example above is, in principle, the same as this one here. You are not making a point here, the point being the fact that implementing this is absolutely REDUNDANT since what this implementation does is to ONLY certify the players that i will not modify the outcome of an event after his bet has been placed. What this implementation FAILS to certify is the fact that i can bet against my users.

Regarding your statement:

"If you accept anonymous players, it's impossible to prove you aren't one of them."

NOW you start talking sense.

Regarding this:
"What needs to be proven to be considered a trusted crypto gambling site is that you don't have any advanced knowledge or the ability to manipulate the result of a bet."
It is REDUNDANT implementing this. Why? Because i can always create more accounts and bet against my players and i will ALWAYS have the edge and ALWAYS win. This does not guarantee that i cannot create new bot accounts that bet against my players, bots betting on the result of the bet, having it already from the backend server, therefore winning all the time.

Your approach applies only to casinos where the house rules. Here, being a peer-to-peer casino, you can t prove that i know or i don t know the result of the game. There is are 2 games that, given the implementation, i can t do anything about. It s the Keno Frenzy and Stock Market Mania games. There are 2 states in these games (and every other game i built), break time and play time. During the break time you choose the tickets but the generation of random numbers has not taken place yet. When the random number generator initiates, no further bets can be placed (this applies for keno frenzy - this game does not accept bets during the random number generation period, therefore making me have no further knowledge of the underlying result). Stock market mania generates the numbers on the go, meaning that it does not generate a sequence for the underlying, it generates a new random number EVERY second, therefore making me, again, as a developer, no more knowledgeable than any other player. The only game where i CAN know the result is Rocket Crash BECAUSE i need an increasing sequence of numbers every 10-th of a second, therefore a randomly generated number every specified period would not do.

Don t trust what i m saying, look at the implementation i provided. Given the implementation, you can clearly see i did not build the games with bad intent, on the contrary, i tried my best to make games as random for the developer as they are for the players.

You're confusing variance and house edge.

A game where the player has a 99% chance of losing their bet does mean the house edge is 99%, you would need to know how much the player won 1% of the time.

Let's say it's a $1 bet and the player has a 99% chance of losing their entire bet.

If 1% of the time they won $100, then there would be no edge for either side.
If 1% of the time they won $110, the player would have a 10% edge over the casino
If 1% of the time they won $97, then the house edge would be 3%

In your example of a game where the Casino has a 99.999% house edge they player would win less than a penny 1% of the time and $0 99% of the time.



Provably fair takes a player seed + server seed + nonce to generate the result.  In the above example, you're just picking a random number, there is no player seed. 
WIth multiple player, you could use a server seed + player0 seed + player1 seed + player2 seed etc.

You don't have to take my word for it, and I'm not really interested in debating the basics with you,  there are a lot of great resources out there on the topic and experts that are way smarter than me in this community.

Check out https://cryptogambling.org/  or go visit their thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/crypto-gambling-foundation-fair-gambling-for-all-2178857, ask them what they think about relying on the built in javascript instead of a provably fair algorithm.


If you accept anonymous players, it's impossible to prove you aren't one of them.  What needs to be proven to be considered a trusted crypto gambling site is that you don't have any advanced knowledge or the ability to manipulate the result of a bet.

First answer to this cause you clearly have NO idea what you are talking about:

I m NOT a rude person, but boy you really deserve to be put in your place. Do you even know what a "provably fair" system even is?

It s clear you DON'T, but i .m going to tell you:
"Provably fair is a way that enables the player to check if a generated number is truly random and hasn’t been manipulated in any way."

Since this is a peer-to-peer betting website, if i implement this, how would this prove i am not betting against my clients?

Let's try to do it step by step:

1.I give you SHA256("random_string") = 621e8b0818308b0bc408231cab46ba9ec65425b25ec9e367b6081406c87a7532

2.I tell you that the last character of the "random_string" is either 0 or 1

3.You make a guess and place a bet. I will double your Bitcoin if you are right.

4.I will reveal "random_string"

5.You verify that the SHA256 matches the value I gave you in the first step.

This proves that the "random_string" has been generated before you place the bet, and has never been modified, BUT this does NOT prove that the house (in peer-to-peer games) did not use the result to bet against you. I could know the result before you do and use it to my advantage by telling "friends" or creating player accounts/bots to bet on those numbers and win. How does this "provably fair" system do any good to you? Man, you are so stupid dude. Wake the fuck up man. I CAN implement this, but this will NOT prove that i am not using the system to my advantage to bet against my users.