Topic: First power bill for my 6 GH/s rig - page 4. (Read 10105 times)

Cannabis and fish together or separately?  I'm trying to get my aquaponics setup going right now, but it will just grow leafy greens and maybe peppers.  Hard to find edible fish to grow around here too, so I just have some hobby style fish.

A typical window fan moves 2000-2500CFM.

The average bedroom measures a mere 86ft^2, or roughly 600ft^3 - Meaning a $20 window box fan will completely remove the air from the room every 15 seconds.

A typical woodstove puts out 3.4KWH/Kg, or somewhere around 10-15KW.  Mine does closer to 15.

And put bluntly, if I put a box fan in the room with my stove, with a window opposite it open to allow air in - I would freeze to death in the winter.  And I don't speculate on this, I've done it when I "burned in" my stove.  Two years ago, in late autumn, at 60F outside, I fired that sucker up to a good 700F with a fan blowing out the nearest window to out-gas the enamel... And it didn't make a damned bit of difference in the ambient temperature of my house.  Standing directly between the stove and the window, you could feel perhaps a +5F difference.

So, if your box will run, at ambient, at full load without cooking itself, for a mere 15-30 seconds - Really, the outdoor temperature will suffice to cool it.  A crappy Lasko window fan (and two open windows in an area you can conveniently close off from the rest of the house) will do the job juuuuust fine.



phorensic... Look, I don't think we substantially disagree on this, and might even respect each other IRL.  But 15-20KW of misused gaming rigs still doesn't come anywhere near datacenter loads, even if they may have a higher spatial density.  If you really want to extend the point to "miners" pulling half a megawatt, I'll concede the point.

I grow dope and fish for a living, bro. I have no idea what volume of cross-flow you would need to dissipate 21.5kW of heat with 100F ambient temperatures, nor how to calculate it.

I can say that I have dealt with ~25kw of indoor lighting, and it took a six-ton compressor working it's ass off and fans that no one on earth would call 'window fans' even when the intake temps were in the sixties(F).

I can relate to that.  However, this means that you should be a skeptic when you first meet someone and then transition to asshole when it's a guarantee that the person is a complete moron or unwilling to learn/listen.

Also, someone with a big title in the enterprise world definitely shouldn't be enough to "start listening".  I've worked with some serious morons who have "big titles" that would look great on paper, but any enthusiast/hobbyist would school him/her.

Every small engine manufacturer and motorcycle manufacturer laughs in your general direction.

It's a delta-t of 65.2F.  I don't run my air-cooled GPUs at 60C.  I'd like the fans to last more than a few months and I don't need the GPUs to keep running for decades.

I'm not doing your homework.  Judging by your previous posts, you'd turn mine into a conspiracy theory.  If you knew enough about the subject to understand the calculations one would post, you'd realize that a temperature differential of 65F isn't really THAT difficult to work with when you have a decent supply of fresh air.  I'm not showing you my birth certificate either.

B - Because when it comes to topics like this, I have way more experience than anyone I meet in a typical day.  Now when I talk to people who have big titles in the enterprise computing world, *that's* when I start to listen instead of school.

The difference I see is that we are packing much more power draw (read: heat generation) into a smaller space than what has been pointed out in this thread.  Now you are comparing to 24 cores in a single chassis, but lets be more realistic and reference the MSDN tent article again.  Modern servers are awesome with how much CPU they can cram into a 2u/4u form factor, or whatever servers you have, but they are also extremely efficient on power use nowadays.  Also, the load on a typical server is very random and usually nowhere near 100%, unless you are running simulations or rendering Pixar movies or whatever.  We load to 100% 24/7 with fire breathing GPU's packed right next to each other.  What runs stable in that little tent they used cannot be compared to racks of GPU's the way we do it.  Pulling air in a window on one side of a house and exhausting it through a window on the other side where you mining operation is just cannot be done after a certain level of power draw/heat generation.

I save these threads that start out "First power bill for my 6 GH/s rig" and end up about volkswagen vans, spark plugs, thermodynamic theory and oil coolers...to read when I have had too much to drink.

Based on the cost/performance I would guess somewhere in the $0.10 per kW/h that the OP is paying. Anyone else have a guess if the OP doesn't share? Or did I miss the actual numbers?

Cool story "breh"...  except you filled in the part about the temps with your words instead of mine...  and the rigs are in a damn bedroom with window fans.  I could have easily shut the water pump off and continued to run the fan alone and the rigs would have been fine.  In fact, there were a few times where the girlfriend forgot to turn it on when she left for work (I shut it off at night and just used window fans).  The NOISE is what I was especially trying to manage since these are in my home.

Are you people

A - Jealous
B - Assholes to everyone you meet in "real life" too
or
C - Just completely ignorant?

I'm dumbfounded that I came in to a thread to simply correct misinformation with a decent attitude and I'm getting shit on by multiple people.  There's a difference between a friendly objective argument/debate of facts and immediately treating someone as if they are inferior/stupid.  I'm far from it.  It's like being bullied for being a nerd in high school or something...

+1

you cant compare gaming to mining, playing even the most demanding game is nothing in comparison to overclocking and pushing your fan and gpu hashing away 24/7

these gpus are designed to game not to mine, you need to keep that in mind. Sure you can take a brand new card and beat the shit out of it in high temps and it will last awhile

try to buy a used card from someone on the marketplace part of the forum, something that served a good year mining 24/7 that thing is not going to last a month in 90degree heat and humidity without proper cooling

An hour or two of downtime a day?  Fuck I am mad when I have an hour or two of downtime a month.

You are aware Lulea is in Sweden right?  No 100F summers w/ 90% humidity in Sweden last time I checked.  In related news I doubt the datacenter at the south pole research base needs a lot of phase change cooling either.

Then, as a data center designer, could you kindly explain to me what, exactly, fails to "scale up" when using outside ambient air to cool?  Just how high of a server density do you need before "outside" experiences a significant increase in temperature?




Yes, they have.  And you have apparently read them, because you specifically mention their impressive improvements on the boring ol' "swamp cooler".  So no doubt, you know all about Facebook's newest DC in Lulea, where they expect to need less than two weeks of supplemental active cooling per year.

Now compare the form factor and uptime demands of a hardcore miner against a Facebook datacenter - And try to tell me with a straight face that you don't see just the teensiest difference between a room full of mid-tower PCs loaded with GPUs that can go down for an hour or two in mid-afternoon on the hottest days of the year with no real harm done, vs row after row after freakin' row of 24core x 42U racks with a contractually guaranteed six-nines uptime?

Actually I have towed with the 911. It was only a small lawn trailer but it was loaded with parts so it was probably about 2k lbs. Not a problem except for the car being squirrely and not being able to get out of it's own way.

My Jeep, Blazer and Fieros all have oil coolers too. Doesn't make them oil cooled.

Try harder or we've derailed this thread enough.

The problem isn't idling, the problem is sustained high output at low speeds. Put 4 people in a Vanagon and then drive up a hill in 100 degree heat. Hook a trailer to your 911 and haul a couple thousand pounds uphill in 100 degree heat, see what happens when you do lots of work and are not going 60 MPH. FYI they switched the 911 to be water cooled in 1998.

Finally, those engines are technically oil-cooled and have radiators to dump the waste heat from the oil. Since they are actually liquid cooled, they are not really appropriate to this analogy.

If you say so. I've never had problems in well over 100 degree heat and left idling with it or my 911. I'd be more worried about my Fieros overheating than either of those. But then most people couldn't find the engine let alone take care of it.

i just want to comment here as someone who actually ran a decent size mining operation all summer long last year

unless you live in the arctic circle or some damn place your going to need a powerful and high quality air conditioner to cool the immediate space around your rigs - there's just no way around it

i had about 6ghash over the summer and i had a brand new Frigidaire 12.5k btu ac and on real hot days it struggled to keep up and the only area it was cooling was my mining room - and this is upstate ny, if you live in arizona or something similar your going to need some real cooling power

Overheating on hills or in stopped traffic in hot weather is a common problem with the air cooled bugs & vanagons. They changed the engine to be watercooled to address this. There were also aftermarket oil cooling bolt ons to address this problem. Those engines were designed during an era when stop & go in 100 degree heat was not the usual situation (as it became in Los Angeles).

DeathAndTaxes, I would like to see sveetsnelda cool a large, dense mining cluster with 100F intake air.  All he needs is enough airflow, right? lol.  Have fun with the power and noise required to move that much air.  This is where water steps in and becomes way more efficient.  You still have to use forced airflow to dump the heat in the end, but it is NOTHING like designing a large scale air only system.  I'm glad he designs data centers for a living also.  He should tell Facebook they did it all wrong with their latest DC.

Edit:  I missed where he said on the last page in this thread where he lives in a dry climate that gets to 100F and he had to use evap to control the temps. lol