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FUR11

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 02, 2014, 04:20:32 PM

Quote from: FUR11 on February 02, 2014, 04:14:07 PM

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 02, 2014, 03:56:40 PM

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

Quote

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Ok, so I guess it's not really hardcore programming, seems fairly straightforward so let's see if I have this correct.

You randomize a number between 1 and 10.

If the number is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8 (80% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 50, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier? So 80% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 1.5?

If the number is 9 or 10 (20% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 200, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier? So 20% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 3?

So knowing that, can't we get the average multiplier? 80% of the time it's an average of 1.275. 20% of the time, it's an average of 2.025. That means that, on average, the multiplier will be 1.425. Which means that you will be risking .0001 to win .0000425? Which means that on ALL hand that you have a 70% chance to win on or under (which is a VAST majority of poker hands preflop), you are losing money. It seems like the house edge on this would be MASSIVE, no?

Yes, you're totally right.

That's why I mentioned in that post that we're going to rewrite whole this process. So it's not randomized anymore.. that the multipliers will be calculated due what cards you and the opponent is holding. I'm not proud of how the multiplier function work right now either.

So are you admitting that the game is unfair to the player and that the house edge is far higher then the 1% you claimed it was?

FlipPoker

full member

Activity: 136

Merit: 100

Quote from: FUR11 on February 02, 2014, 04:14:07 PM

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 02, 2014, 03:56:40 PM

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

Quote

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Ok, so I guess it's not really hardcore programming, seems fairly straightforward so let's see if I have this correct.

You randomize a number between 1 and 10.

If the number is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8 (80% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 50, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier? So 80% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 1.5?

If the number is 9 or 10 (20% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 200, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier? So 20% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 3?

So knowing that, can't we get the average multiplier? 80% of the time it's an average of 1.275. 20% of the time, it's an average of 2.025. That means that, on average, the multiplier will be 1.425. Which means that you will be risking .0001 to win .0000425? Which means that on ALL hand that you have a 70% chance to win on or under (which is a VAST majority of poker hands preflop), you are losing money. It seems like the house edge on this would be MASSIVE, no?

Yes, you're totally right.

That's why I mentioned in that post that we're going to rewrite whole this process. So it's not randomized anymore.. that the multipliers will be calculated due what cards you and the opponent is holding. I'm not proud of how the multiplier function work right now either.

FUR11

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 02, 2014, 04:14:00 PM

No, it's not.. as I explianed earlier the fee is 1% of every "winning hand". Also that we charge 1% of the return you get from your winnings. So if you bet 0.01 BTC on a 1.5x multiplier your return/profit will be 0.005 BTC.
These 0.005 BTC are we charging with a 1% fee.. so you actually only get 0.00495 BTC in return because 0.00005 BTC is the fee that has been drawn from your winnings.

But the game doesn't pay out evenly 100%.

As I posted above, the player is going to be losing money more often then they will be winning money. When the player loses money, that money goes to the house. That is the EDGE that the HOUSE has. In most games that edge is 1%, meaning if the player risks 1 they expect to get back .99. As I showed, in those hands, risking 1 would expect to get back .70 and .81. Because the way that you work the multiplier makes it so that most hands are losing hands (equity wise). Right?

FUR11

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 02, 2014, 03:56:40 PM

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

Quote

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Ok, so I guess it's not really hardcore programming, seems fairly straightforward so let's see if I have this correct.

You randomize a number between 1 and 10.

If the number is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8 (80% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 50, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier? So 80% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 1.5?

If the number is 9 or 10 (20% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 200, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier? So 20% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 3?

So knowing that, can't we get the average multiplier? 80% of the time it's an average of 1.275. 20% of the time, it's an average of 2.025. That means that, on average, the multiplier will be 1.425. Which means that you will be risking .0001 to win .0000425? Which means that on ALL hand that you have a 70% chance to win on or under (which is a VAST majority of poker hands preflop), you are losing money. It seems like the house edge on this would be MASSIVE, no?

FlipPoker

full member

Activity: 136

Merit: 100

Quote from: FUR11 on February 02, 2014, 04:04:51 PM

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 02, 2014, 03:56:40 PM

Hi there.. sorry for the delay but I have been away over the weekend.
I will try to answer your questions right now, I hope that you follow along.

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

Quote

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Card generation
This may be a little more advanced, but I will try to explain is as good as I can.

Quote

card_deck = ['As', '2s', '3s', '4s', ....]

player_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card1);
player_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card2);

opponent_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card1);
opponent_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card2);

tableCard_1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_item(card_deck, tableCard_1 );
...and so on...

This above is the process to generate the players/opponent and table cards.

Quote

var player_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([player_card1, player_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

var opponent_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([opponent_card1, opponent_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

win = FALSE
IF player_calc > oppontent_calc
win = TRUE

This above is the part where the winner is decided. PokerEvulator is an library you can find here: https://github.com/chenosaurus/poker-evaluator

Then there is this encrypted SHA1-hash that is shown at the start of a game.

Quote

Plain text: 2014-02-02 21:40:12 (9h, 5h | 5c, Kh, As, 7s, 2s | Th, 4c)
SHA1-hash: eab57f2931b1ea89c0a32ecef399146bcd359e78

The encryption is using this function: http://pastebin.com/JYBGv1mV

I hope that you got any programming knowledge, otherwise it's really hard to explain how this works.

But we're going to rewrite this whole process, some new features are coming up.
We're going to remove the "random multiplier" and generate an multiplier that depends on your holding and the opponent holding. Also we're going to remove the bet-limit so you can bet whatever amount you want.
Another feature we're going to implement is an "Faucet" function where you can earn free bitcoins to play with once an hour or so (not really decied what the range will be yet).
We're also going to rewrite the whole "charge fee" part of the system. There is going to be an "house edge" type of fee charging instead.

Thanks for posting that. I have zero programming knowledge, but hopefully someone more intelligent then myself can look over that and verify it.

It's a little odd that you could do all of that coding but were confused with my simple equity calculations. I also didn't see you answering my question about house edge. What is it? In the two hands I posted days ago, wouldn't you agree that the house edge was 30% and 19%?

No, it's not.. as I explianed earlier the fee is 1% of every "winning hand". Also that we charge 1% of the return you get from your winnings. So if you bet 0.01 BTC on a 1.5x multiplier your return/profit will be 0.005 BTC.
These 0.005 BTC are we charging with a 1% fee.. so you actually only get 0.00495 BTC in return because 0.00005 BTC is the fee that has been drawn from your winnings.

FUR11

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 02, 2014, 03:56:40 PM

Hi there.. sorry for the delay but I have been away over the weekend.
I will try to answer your questions right now, I hope that you follow along.

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

Quote

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Card generation
This may be a little more advanced, but I will try to explain is as good as I can.

Quote

card_deck = ['As', '2s', '3s', '4s', ....]

player_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card1);
player_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card2);

opponent_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card1);
opponent_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card2);

tableCard_1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_item(card_deck, tableCard_1 );
...and so on...

This above is the process to generate the players/opponent and table cards.

Quote

var player_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([player_card1, player_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

var opponent_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([opponent_card1, opponent_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

win = FALSE
IF player_calc > oppontent_calc
win = TRUE

This above is the part where the winner is decided. PokerEvulator is an library you can find here: https://github.com/chenosaurus/poker-evaluator

Then there is this encrypted SHA1-hash that is shown at the start of a game.

Quote

Plain text: 2014-02-02 21:40:12 (9h, 5h | 5c, Kh, As, 7s, 2s | Th, 4c)
SHA1-hash: eab57f2931b1ea89c0a32ecef399146bcd359e78

The encryption is using this function: http://pastebin.com/JYBGv1mV

I hope that you got any programming knowledge, otherwise it's really hard to explain how this works.

But we're going to rewrite this whole process, some new features are coming up.
We're going to remove the "random multiplier" and generate an multiplier that depends on your holding and the opponent holding. Also we're going to remove the bet-limit so you can bet whatever amount you want.
Another feature we're going to implement is an "Faucet" function where you can earn free bitcoins to play with once an hour or so (not really decied what the range will be yet).
We're also going to rewrite the whole "charge fee" part of the system. There is going to be an "house edge" type of fee charging instead.

Thanks for posting that. I have zero programming knowledge, but hopefully someone more intelligent then myself can look over that and verify it.

It's a little odd that you could do all of that coding but were confused with my simple equity calculations. I also didn't see you answering my question about house edge. What is it? In the two hands I posted days ago, wouldn't you agree that the house edge was 30% and 19%?

FlipPoker

full member

Activity: 136

Merit: 100

Quote from: FUR11 on February 01, 2014, 04:03:46 PM

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 01, 2014, 10:26:01 AM

Quote from: FanEagle on February 01, 2014, 10:18:24 AM

I guess the website needs a fix on multiplier of winnings.
Random multiplier will NOT help the user.
Multiplier should be like something that equiparate to the difficulty of the hand to be won against another, not random. I'm like... going to say, what happens if in case i get AA and my opponent gets 72 the multiplier would be like 1.7(just an example) I would bet like the max because I know I'm pretty happy to bet "all i got" to win a so easy hand.
Meanwhile 2 hands that are similars... like Q7 and K8 should be like 1.2, i tried it and im like ok, if i win i win almost nothing... 1.05 for example.
I'm not an expert on percentage of winnings, but at least put real %

Thank's for taking your time.

My vision about this were to give the users completely random odds and hands.. that you could wake up with 72 vs AA with 2.5x or vice versa AA vs 72 with 2.5x for you. That it could come some oppurtunity's where you really need to take a risk or you pass the hand and get to the next one.
Perhaps some of the multiplier values is "to low" too.. you can get a multiplier high as 3x if your lucky. But I will look into this when the multiplier calculates depending on the pre-flop and what that would mean for the site.

It's been over 12 hours and you still haven't replied to me.

What is the house edge %?

How is the game provably fair?

Hi there.. sorry for the delay but I have been away over the weekend.
I will try to answer your questions right now, I hope that you follow along.

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

Quote

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Card generation
This may be a little more advanced, but I will try to explain it as good as I can.

Quote

card_deck = ['As', '2s', '3s', '4s', ....]

player_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card1);
player_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card2);

opponent_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card1);
opponent_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card2);

tableCard_1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, tableCard_1 );
...and so on...

This above is the process to generate the players/opponent and table cards.

Quote

var player_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([player_card1, player_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

var opponent_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([opponent_card1, opponent_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

win = FALSE
IF player_calc > oppontent_calc
win = TRUE

This above is the part where the winner is decided. PokerEvulator is an library you can find here: https://github.com/chenosaurus/poker-evaluator

Then there is this encrypted SHA1-hash that is shown at the start of a game.

Quote

Plain text: 2014-02-02 21:40:12 (9h, 5h | 5c, Kh, As, 7s, 2s | Th, 4c)
SHA1-hash: eab57f2931b1ea89c0a32ecef399146bcd359e78

The encryption is using this function: http://pastebin.com/JYBGv1mV

I hope that you got any programming knowledge, otherwise it's really hard to explain how this works.

But we're going to rewrite this whole process, some new features are coming up.
We're going to remove the "random multiplier" and generate an multiplier that depends on your holding and the opponent holding. Also we're going to remove the bet-limit so you can bet whatever amount you want.
Another feature we're going to implement is an "Faucet" function where you can earn free bitcoins to play with once an hour or so (not really decied what the range will be yet).
We're also going to rewrite the whole "charge fee" part of the system. There is going to be an "house edge" type of fee charging instead.

FUR11

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: FUR11 on February 01, 2014, 04:03:46 PM

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 01, 2014, 10:26:01 AM

Quote from: FanEagle on February 01, 2014, 10:18:24 AM

I guess the website needs a fix on multiplier of winnings.
Random multiplier will NOT help the user.
Multiplier should be like something that equiparate to the difficulty of the hand to be won against another, not random. I'm like... going to say, what happens if in case i get AA and my opponent gets 72 the multiplier would be like 1.7(just an example) I would bet like the max because I know I'm pretty happy to bet "all i got" to win a so easy hand.
Meanwhile 2 hands that are similars... like Q7 and K8 should be like 1.2, i tried it and im like ok, if i win i win almost nothing... 1.05 for example.
I'm not an expert on percentage of winnings, but at least put real %

Thank's for taking your time.

My vision about this were to give the users completely random odds and hands.. that you could wake up with 72 vs AA with 2.5x or vice versa AA vs 72 with 2.5x for you. That it could come some oppurtunity's where you really need to take a risk or you pass the hand and get to the next one.
Perhaps some of the multiplier values is "to low" too.. you can get a multiplier high as 3x if your lucky. But I will look into this when the multiplier calculates depending on the pre-flop and what that would mean for the site.

It's been over 12 hours and you still haven't replied to me.

What is the house edge %?

How is the game provably fair?

A day and a half now. Still no answers? Clearly it can't still be "too late" for a decent response?

What is the house edge%?

How is the game provably fair?

Why wouldn't you answer those questions when I asked them initially?

FlipPoker

full member

Activity: 136

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

id give it a shot thanks.
15hidKKRvBkDcQT1NoJT3wLLdqftWzfCiA

I need your Bitcoin address from the site, just press the "Deposit" button in the top-right corner.

FUR11

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 01, 2014, 10:26:01 AM

Quote from: FanEagle on February 01, 2014, 10:18:24 AM

I guess the website needs a fix on multiplier of winnings.
Random multiplier will NOT help the user.
Multiplier should be like something that equiparate to the difficulty of the hand to be won against another, not random. I'm like... going to say, what happens if in case i get AA and my opponent gets 72 the multiplier would be like 1.7(just an example) I would bet like the max because I know I'm pretty happy to bet "all i got" to win a so easy hand.
Meanwhile 2 hands that are similars... like Q7 and K8 should be like 1.2, i tried it and im like ok, if i win i win almost nothing... 1.05 for example.
I'm not an expert on percentage of winnings, but at least put real %

Thank's for taking your time.

My vision about this were to give the users completely random odds and hands.. that you could wake up with 72 vs AA with 2.5x or vice versa AA vs 72 with 2.5x for you. That it could come some oppurtunity's where you really need to take a risk or you pass the hand and get to the next one.
Perhaps some of the multiplier values is "to low" too.. you can get a multiplier high as 3x if your lucky. But I will look into this when the multiplier calculates depending on the pre-flop and what that would mean for the site.

It's been over 12 hours and you still haven't replied to me.

What is the house edge %?

How is the game provably fair?

cointron

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 500

No advertising in this thread thanks, create your own topic if you want to promote that site.
[/quote]

I apologize.

FlipPoker

full member

Activity: 136

Merit: 100

Quote from: FanEagle on February 01, 2014, 10:18:24 AM

I guess the website needs a fix on multiplier of winnings.
Random multiplier will NOT help the user.
Multiplier should be like something that equiparate to the difficulty of the hand to be won against another, not random. I'm like... going to say, what happens if in case i get AA and my opponent gets 72 the multiplier would be like 1.7(just an example) I would bet like the max because I know I'm pretty happy to bet "all i got" to win a so easy hand.
Meanwhile 2 hands that are similars... like Q7 and K8 should be like 1.2, i tried it and im like ok, if i win i win almost nothing... 1.05 for example.
I'm not an expert on percentage of winnings, but at least put real %

Thank's for taking your time.

My vision about this were to give the users completely random odds and hands.. that you could wake up with 72 vs AA with 2.5x or vice versa AA vs 72 with 2.5x for you. That it could come some oppurtunity's where you really need to take a risk or you pass the hand and get to the next one.
Perhaps some of the multiplier values is "to low" too.. you can get a multiplier high as 3x if your lucky. But I will look into this when the multiplier calculates depending on the pre-flop and what that would mean for the site.

FanEagle

legendary

Activity: 2884

Merit: 1117

I guess the website needs a fix on multiplier of winnings.
Random multiplier will NOT help the user.
Multiplier should be like something that equiparate to the difficulty of the hand to be won against another, not random. I'm like... going to say, what happens if in case i get AA and my opponent gets 72 the multiplier would be like 1.7(just an example) I would bet like the max because I know I'm pretty happy to bet "all i got" to win a so easy hand.
Meanwhile 2 hands that are similars... like Q7 and K8 should be like 1.2, i tried it and im like ok, if i win i win almost nothing... 1.05 for example.
I'm not an expert on percentage of winnings, but at least put real %

FlipPoker

full member

Activity: 136

Merit: 100

Quote from: FanEagle on February 01, 2014, 05:37:49 AM

I will review this site for my blog
12TKcVQs46DVg7vRGzFXKxTscb4QDJtj21

Have credited your account with 0.0003 BTC.

Quote from: MakeBelieve on February 01, 2014, 07:12:40 AM

I would of thought you would of allowed me to have what I earned because it wasn't my fault and you found the bug because of that imagine if you wasn't online when someone did that you would be bankrupt within a few hours if they bid high enough.

Well, yes.. I didn't really were in the mood yesterday to lose the whole bankroll (also some of my own personal cash) for a malfunction.

#EDIT: You also gotta know that I felt really bad about that.. I have thought about this for a minute and I will credit your account with the 0.01 BTC you should have won in the first place.
Just check your balance and you will see that 0.01 BTC is there.

Quote from: ?? on ??

http://www.betcoinpoker.com/ Cool

Try it.-

No advertising in this thread thanks, create your own topic if you want to promote that site.

MakeBelieve

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

I would of thought you would of allowed me to have what I earned because it wasn't my fault and you found the bug because of that imagine if you wasn't online when someone did that you would be bankrupt within a few hours if they bid high enough.

FanEagle

legendary

Activity: 2884

Merit: 1117

I will review this site for my blog
12TKcVQs46DVg7vRGzFXKxTscb4QDJtj21

FUR11

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: FlipPoker on February 01, 2014, 12:24:03 AM

Quote from: FUR11 on February 01, 2014, 12:07:28 AM

Quote from: FlipPoker on January 31, 2014, 11:51:27 PM

Quote from: FUR11 on January 31, 2014, 11:38:13 PM

Quote from: FlipPoker on January 31, 2014, 11:27:56 PM

Quote from: FUR11 on January 31, 2014, 10:29:51 PM

text

I'm glad that you actually took your time for this post. I will look into these thing that you mentioned and see if there's something I may improve.. like the multiplier or the bet limits and so on.
I really like to get some feedback, both positive and negative. Because the site is still in development, I had many ideas for this in the beginning but you need to start somewhere and implement these features in the progress.

I will try to answer all your questions about the card randomisation and the multiplier calculation (without revealing too much of the code.. for obvious reasons). It may be a good idea to post that information at the site too, you're right that it's really little described about this process.
But not right now at this late hour.

So your assertion is still that your site has a 1% house edge, despite those two real-btc hands that I posted?

If I bet .0001, and the house edge is 1%, I should get back, on average, .000099. In the first example I posted above, I'm getting back .0000696142. Wouldn't you say that that means that the house edge, on that bet, is 30.39%?

I'm sorry.. but I didn't really follow what you mean.
I can make an example so you maybe understand.

If you bet 0.0001 BTC on a 1.5x multiplier the math is like this (if you win):
0.0001 * 1.5 = 0.00015
0.00015 - 0.0001 = 0.00005 (this is your "profit")
0.00005 * 0.01 = 0.0000005 (this is the fee)
0.00005 - 0.0000005 = 0.0000495 (this is your payout winnings)

I hope you understand my example above..

Hold up, hold up. You are CHARGING A FEE ON WINNINGS? THAT'S what you are referring to when you say "house edge" Huh

And you "don't follow" what I mean when I clearly explain very very basic math showing how much people are losing per hand?

What percentage of each bet is the house winning each hand? That's what house edge means. In the two examples I provided, those percentages are 30% and 19%.

I think that I have explained this good enough in the "Fee" section on the site. I thought that you knew that.

I didn't really know what the term "house edge" really was, I thought it was just the "profit of the house" kind of term. I will have a study about the "house edge" and see what I come up with. I didn't really knew how to charge the fee's on another way than this. Maybe something to change to.

Did you make this site? Are you saying that you don't know what % the house wins at? Are you trying to say that the game pays out perfectly even odds (which I believe I've shown isn't the case)? How can you make/own a site but claim to not know how much you stand to make on bets placed on said site?

Let me give you an example. If the site had it's odds programmed in a way such that it was paying out at a rate over 100% (so if someone bet 1, their EV was over 1), you'd lose money. How are you sure that that isn't happening? If you are sure that the site isn't paying out too much money, you MUST know what rate it IS paying out at.

What.

Is.

That.

Rate.

FlipPoker

full member

Activity: 136

Merit: 100

Quote from: FUR11 on February 01, 2014, 12:07:28 AM

Quote from: FlipPoker on January 31, 2014, 11:51:27 PM

Quote from: FUR11 on January 31, 2014, 11:38:13 PM

Quote from: FlipPoker on January 31, 2014, 11:27:56 PM

Quote from: FUR11 on January 31, 2014, 10:29:51 PM

text

I'm glad that you actually took your time for this post. I will look into these thing that you mentioned and see if there's something I may improve.. like the multiplier or the bet limits and so on.
I really like to get some feedback, both positive and negative. Because the site is still in development, I had many ideas for this in the beginning but you need to start somewhere and implement these features in the progress.

I will try to answer all your questions about the card randomisation and the multiplier calculation (without revealing too much of the code.. for obvious reasons). It may be a good idea to post that information at the site too, you're right that it's really little described about this process.
But not right now at this late hour.

So your assertion is still that your site has a 1% house edge, despite those two real-btc hands that I posted?

If I bet .0001, and the house edge is 1%, I should get back, on average, .000099. In the first example I posted above, I'm getting back .0000696142. Wouldn't you say that that means that the house edge, on that bet, is 30.39%?

I'm sorry.. but I didn't really follow what you mean.
I can make an example so you maybe understand.

If you bet 0.0001 BTC on a 1.5x multiplier the math is like this (if you win):
0.0001 * 1.5 = 0.00015
0.00015 - 0.0001 = 0.00005 (this is your "profit")
0.00005 * 0.01 = 0.0000005 (this is the fee)
0.00005 - 0.0000005 = 0.0000495 (this is your payout winnings)

I hope you understand my example above..

Hold up, hold up. You are CHARGING A FEE ON WINNINGS? THAT'S what you are referring to when you say "house edge" Huh

And you "don't follow" what I mean when I clearly explain very very basic math showing how much people are losing per hand?

What percentage of each bet is the house winning each hand? That's what house edge means. In the two examples I provided, those percentages are 30% and 19%.

I think that I have explained this good enough in the "Fee" section on the site. I thought that you knew that.

I didn't really know what the term "house edge" really was, I thought it was just the "profit of the house" kind of term. I will have a study about the "house edge" and see what I come up with. I didn't really knew how to charge the fee's on another way than this. Maybe something to change to.

FUR11

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: FlipPoker on January 31, 2014, 11:51:27 PM

Quote from: FUR11 on January 31, 2014, 11:38:13 PM

Quote from: FlipPoker on January 31, 2014, 11:27:56 PM

Quote from: FUR11 on January 31, 2014, 10:29:51 PM

text

I'm glad that you actually took your time for this post. I will look into these thing that you mentioned and see if there's something I may improve.. like the multiplier or the bet limits and so on.
I really like to get some feedback, both positive and negative. Because the site is still in development, I had many ideas for this in the beginning but you need to start somewhere and implement these features in the progress.

I will try to answer all your questions about the card randomisation and the multiplier calculation (without revealing too much of the code.. for obvious reasons). It may be a good idea to post that information at the site too, you're right that it's really little described about this process.
But not right now at this late hour.

So your assertion is still that your site has a 1% house edge, despite those two real-btc hands that I posted?

If I bet .0001, and the house edge is 1%, I should get back, on average, .000099. In the first example I posted above, I'm getting back .0000696142. Wouldn't you say that that means that the house edge, on that bet, is 30.39%?

I'm sorry.. but I didn't really follow what you mean.
I can make an example so you maybe understand.

If you bet 0.0001 BTC on a 1.5x multiplier the math is like this (if you win):
0.0001 * 1.5 = 0.00015
0.00015 - 0.0001 = 0.00005 (this is your "profit")
0.00005 * 0.01 = 0.0000005 (this is the fee)
0.00005 - 0.0000005 = 0.0000495 (this is your payout winnings)

I hope you understand my example above..

Hold up, hold up. You are CHARGING A FEE ON WINNINGS? THAT'S what you are referring to when you say "house edge" Huh

And you "don't follow" what I mean when I clearly explain very very basic math showing how much people are losing per hand?

What percentage of each bet is the house winning each hand? That's what house edge means. In the two examples I provided, those percentages are 30% and 19%.

FlipPoker

full member

Activity: 136

Merit: 100

Quote from: FUR11 on January 31, 2014, 11:38:13 PM

Quote from: FlipPoker on January 31, 2014, 11:27:56 PM

Quote from: FUR11 on January 31, 2014, 10:29:51 PM

text

I'm glad that you actually took your time for this post. I will look into these thing that you mentioned and see if there's something I may improve.. like the multiplier or the bet limits and so on.
I really like to get some feedback, both positive and negative. Because the site is still in development, I had many ideas for this in the beginning but you need to start somewhere and implement these features in the progress.

I will try to answer all your questions about the card randomisation and the multiplier calculation (without revealing too much of the code.. for obvious reasons). It may be a good idea to post that information at the site too, you're right that it's really little described about this process.
But not right now at this late hour.

So your assertion is still that your site has a 1% house edge, despite those two real-btc hands that I posted?

If I bet .0001, and the house edge is 1%, I should get back, on average, .000099. In the first example I posted above, I'm getting back .0000696142. Wouldn't you say that that means that the house edge, on that bet, is 30.39%?

I'm sorry.. but I didn't really follow what you mean.
I can make an example so you maybe understand.

If you bet 0.0001 BTC on a 1.5x multiplier the math is like this (if you win):
0.0001 * 1.5 = 0.00015
0.00015 - 0.0001 = 0.00005 (this is your "profit")
0.00005 * 0.01 = 0.0000005 (this is the fee)
0.00005 - 0.0000005 = 0.0000495 (this is your payout winnings)

I hope you understand my example above..

Topic: FLIPPOKER IS CLOSING! - page 10. (Read 17696 times)