Topic: Fork off - page 22. (Read 37677 times)

I guess we have to define "ready for use". E.g. federated peg, spv peg, or snark peg?  Or something else later.

Otherwise the answers will vary as above. :-)

Edit:
See eg. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/when-are-sidechains-going-live-and-the-fork-905243

I agree with BitcoinNational. Forking now would not be beneficial imo... it would show BTC is not as solid as it should be. But on the same time, you are right that if it makes sense to fork then why not. It's a true dilemma.

sidechains are the next stupid megalomaniac idea which endanger its useability for its main purpose by introducing more complexity. Has it even been tested in the wild on an altcoin?
This is such a megalomaniac fail-parade, unbelievable.
Bitcoiners are some serious nutcases.

You're aiming too high all the time. Bitcoin as the only coin and alts as scam-only to support bitcoins #1 position is going to backfire royally.

Bitcoin with its idea to be unaccompanied world #1 coin forever is nothing that's possible. The idea alone warrants to see a doctor for mental examination.

Right now bitcoin stifles innovation and endangers all of crypto to fail with the way it behaves. You got some serious homework on diversity and innovation outside of the btc blockchain to do.

#justsayin'

It's pretty much screwed from the beginning with this longterm high inflation. Bitcoin meets the same fate as most shitcoins: looses 99% of value - but not because it  wouldn't be possible to have a coin that can maintain value but because satoshi designed it inflationary and inflation never was a good thing. It's just a destuctive force on the market, nothing else. Observe the scarce coins. They found their bottom after the bubble mid last year while bitcoin has no bottom apparently.

I think i'm not the only one exteremely unhappy and annoyed with this arrogant bitcoin-folks, the know-it-alls on the quest for worlddomination on first try while it's actually falling like a rock right in front of you. There's some serious imbalance between peoples perception, wishes, dreams and reality. This whole fork and sidechains-discussion just shows how detached everyone is from reality.

compete with the new gen of coins coming out.

A fork, no matter hard or soft, would not be successful without >95% of miner's support. If Gavin's fork is really supported by 95% of miners, good luck to the 5% and MPEx: they will have a block every 200 minutes for 280 days, followed by a block every 50 minutes for 70 days, until they get back to normal speed.

But actually, block size could be increased without hardfork: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/auxiliary-block-increasing-max-block-size-with-softfork-283746 . It's just a bit cumbersome

Not against changing increasing the max block size. But sidechains, wtf do we need them for?

at least 1-3 years.

I would just throw a random guess out that we would see some initial implementations which are usable in the middle of 2015 just based on my observations of how software engineering tends to go and my guesses about the technical challenges of the problem(s).  Probably the Blockstream guys have tossed out better info, but I've not really run across anything solid (nor have I really looked that hard.)

Just as important, when will 1MB become a legitimate problem...in actual economic terms rather than political ones?  That is actually kind of difficult to define.  I've read on the active gold.v.bitcoin thread that we are actually only about 1/10th there if/when a modicum of transaction fees drives out the spam.  The very low trajectory is not something I expected 4 years ago, but it argues (to me) that there is a lot of time before we are forced to increase it by non-political issues.

 edit: 2014 -> 2015 typo.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/is-there-a-forbes-bitcoin-millionairebillionaire-list-or-upcoming-608444

CTRL+F for his name.

I don't understand either Flashman, and would like
someone knowledgeable to explain in a few plain-English
sentences how sidechains solve the storage issue.

I assume that the basic idea is that not all nodes
need to carry all sidechains, and the main chain
full nodes would then connect to other nodes
or something.

Who is this Mircea Popescu and why is anyone giving this clown any time of the day?

I don't think a hard fork would be very difficult, but only if the following two points are taken into account:
- Support for the fork should be overwhelming. If 95% of the users agree with the fork, the 5% that don't are pretty much forced to participate. Sure, they can keep running the non-forked version, but coins on that chain will be unlikely to keep their value. Of course, in practice, non all participants are equal and if major players such as large mining pools, BitPay, Coinbase, BC.I, major exchanges, etc... join either side, it doesn't matter that much what individual users choose.
- The fork should be announced and the software released long before the blockchain is forked. Users and companies need time to deploy the software, make modifications specific to their business, test for issues, etc...

That viewpoint sounds supportive of inflation, which is the problem with all of our fiat.

by the end of the year bitcoin is an alt and another coin that's able to hold its value will take over as base-currency for trading other currencies against. Then you can play on lower cap with it again until you sorted it all out correctly and can relaunch it few years later.

The scalability-issue will never occure in real life.

As long as it's not complete ZERO and can be exchanged back and forth very fast, it still can be used for world-wide transactions.

When someone tells me I should not read or look at or consider something it usually has just the opposite effect on me.  That aspect of my personality probably contributed to my being a relatively early adopter of Bitcoin I suppose.  Who knows.

To speak the truth, a real hard fork is very difficult now even if it is required. There is a high chance that the forked one will become an alt coin, just because nodes will not update them. Is there any data about the nodes regarding the versions they are running now ? That may give some idea about how ready we are for a hard fork.

i disagree here. Supply and demand make the price of a coin. Bitcoin isn't scarce enough right now because of this insanely long phase of high inflation (8% to 10% this  year). This inflation bleeds out your marketcap. So that's the number one thing to be noticed: bitcoin is right now not scarce at all with 3600 new coins every day dumped on the market

#2 thing is: in an industry of competing alts scarcity will become mandatory - and i mean 'scarcity' ... not like 10% to 30% inflation years into adoption.
Coins will be valued according to demand and supply (of course). As long as they are scarce and useful nothing goes to zero, why should it?

I don't see what you're actually fearing because bitcoin right now is useless as money because of  the megalomania which says it needs to be inflationary which turns out to be constant oversupply and loss in cap and declining interest from the public. This bitcoincommunities entire logic and idea is totally strange and actually wrong logic.

10 alts can coexists literally forever if they 1) traget different groups of consumers 2) are useful for different things 3)can each secure a demand for them 4) they are reasonably scarce (low inflation) to support their value and reduce their volatility

Bitcoins volatilty is a pain and is caused mainly by the high inflation. That inflation you got there kills it right in front of you but you seem to be all high on something so you actually don't even see that. Scalability isn't even a topic for a coin that's unable to maintain a value like bitcoin.

So, having 3 separate chains overwhelm an arbitrary figure of 100GB of storage is helping how?

If you don't want to use prune, and run a full chain, but, the crypto community is now spread across 3 large chains, isn't is as much like using prune to decide only to host one chain, as host all 3?

I have an idea, let's have one crypto per small geographic area, that will fix it!  

When will sidechains be ready for use?