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Topic: Fractional Reserve Lending IS NOT bad - its unavoidable - page 9. (Read 12751 times)

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Hey, just want to be clear why you guys are saying frb is 'fraud'. I don't get it. Fraud means that there was some dishonesty. However, the frb system, at least in the us, is very well understood and how it works is public knowledge. So, no real deception/dishonesty. Who is deceiving who, and how?

Not well understood by the public.  And especially retirees, savers and other hardworking people out there.
sr. member
Activity: 481
Merit: 268
On the issue of Fractional reserve banking being a fraud or not, I just want to point out that we individuals would go to jail if we started lending several times money people entrusted to us. But never mind.

I'm just going to say that FRB allows banks to increase M3 and to profit for that liquid creation of money. Taking in account that M3 is several times bigger than M1 (mainly, notes and coins), even taking in account that a big part of M3 is created directly by the central bank (by crediting banks with money on the accounts they have in the central bank) we are still allowing private corporations to create a huge part of our money.

Therefore, we are depriving the State/Central bank of the power to create all the money that is created by banks. If FRB was tighter or inexistent, a huge (or all) part of the M3 created by banks would be created by the central bank and given out to public entities without the risk of creating inflation. So less taxes for all of us.

Basically, part of the taxes we pay go to support Fractional reserve banking and the profits given by it to banks.
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
Hey, just want to be clear why you guys are saying frb is 'fraud'. I don't get it. Fraud means that there was some dishonesty. However, the frb system, at least in the us, is very well understood and how it works is public knowledge. So, no real deception/dishonesty. Who is deceiving who, and how?
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 513
Ozziecoin, gotcha. You're a spammer, how could I be so blind Grin

Quote
Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.
Got it. I don't currently want to educate anyone, so I won't. Just a relaxing conversation happening here Wink

Understood.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Here is how to avoid Fractional Reserve Lending = USE THE BLOCKCHAIN

Do not allow off blockchain transactions.  Problem solved.  Case closed.  This thread is dead.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Ozziecoin, gotcha. You're a spammer, how could I be so blind Grin

Quote
Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.
Got it. I don't currently want to educate anyone, so I won't. Just a relaxing conversation happening here Wink

Saves me having to repeat myself.  Also, able to avoid your rambling logic.   Grin
Having to repeat nonsense you wanted to say? Cheesy
At least you seem to be familiar with Goebbels methods Grin

Nonsense appears to be coming from your side of the fence mate.  Cool
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1009
Ozziecoin, gotcha. You're a spammer, how could I be so blind Grin

Quote
Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.
Got it. I don't currently want to educate anyone, so I won't. Just a relaxing conversation happening here Wink

Saves me having to repeat myself.  Also, able to avoid your rambling logic.   Grin
Having to repeat nonsense you wanted to say? Cheesy
At least you seem to be familiar with Goebbels methods Grin
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Ozziecoin, gotcha. You're a spammer, how could I be so blind Grin

Quote
Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.
Got it. I don't currently want to educate anyone, so I won't. Just a relaxing conversation happening here Wink

Saves me having to repeat myself.  Also, able to avoid your rambling logic.   Grin
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1009
Ozziecoin, gotcha. You're a spammer, how could I be so blind Grin

Quote
Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.
Got it. I don't currently want to educate anyone, so I won't. Just a relaxing conversation happening here Wink
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Fractional Reserve Banking IS bad.  Here is why: http://ozziecoin.com/?page_id=1068
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 513
While I agree that absurdly low(artificially low is how I usually refer to it) interest rates are a huge problem, as it doesn't allow for a price discovery mechanism to operate, brutally punishes savers, and rewards gamblers, this isn't the whole problem. After all the very same NON governmental "authority" setting interest rates also "prints" the nation's currency, which it then lends to congress with interest. Plainly there's no legitimate reason to do this as congress is granted the authority to print our currency directly without interest, which is why there's a US treasury(they still stamp our coins). However if you're a politician in DC and you want to spend more than you're taking in it's fantastic, as you can inflate the budget to your heart's content and saddle future generations with that debt. This wouldn't be possible with a sound currency. You cannot simply whip up an extra trillion gold certificates as someone may well try to exchange those certificates for gold you do not have.
Nah. You don't seem to understand our current monetary system. That's become clear when you wrote this old "saddle future generations with debt" manthra.
Government debt is not a burden, it's a monetary instrument for the monetary system. That's why congress doesn't simply print the currency but issues debt. If it started printing, the Fed would have to start selling its own debt (net effect would be zero) or just let rates plunge to zero forever without the ability to raise them.

Also government debt is an asset for private sector. When government is running fiscal deficit, it isn't saddling future generations with debt, it provides current generation with an asset. Perfect credit risk free asset. Moreover only the government sector and the foreign sector are able to add net monetary assets to the domestic private sector. Government does it through deficit spending, the foreign sector does it through current account deficit (for the foreign sector).

You ignore the fact that it's impossible (well, only possible if you're dumb) to default on your own debt in your own currency.

If you imply that Fed is ruled by banksters then you imply that all government is too. But it's not a monetary problem, but a political one.

Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1009
Of course the US can default on their own debt.  When the Chinese, Japanese and Germans stop accepting paper in return for real goods and services.
Yeah, and what are they supposed to accept instead?


Not your toilet paper mate.
That's really sad, I did save some of my used toilet paper under the mattress. It's worthless now, what a shame. Cry

Here you go:

Quote
"Frankly speaking, foreign exchange reserves have become a big burden for us, because such reserves translate into the base money, which could affect inflation," Phoenix New Media Ltd quoted Li as saying during a visit to Kenya. "From China's perspective, macroeconomic controls could face tremendous pressures if the overall trade is imbalanced."

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/34972660.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

The Chinese are getting smarter. 
OH NOES THE US IS GOING TO DEFAULT NOW Cry
What's the point?
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Here you go:

Quote
"Frankly speaking, foreign exchange reserves have become a big burden for us, because such reserves translate into the base money, which could affect inflation," Phoenix New Media Ltd quoted Li as saying during a visit to Kenya. "From China's perspective, macroeconomic controls could face tremendous pressures if the overall trade is imbalanced."

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/34972660.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

The Chinese are getting smarter. 
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Of course the US can default on their own debt.  When the Chinese, Japanese and Germans stop accepting paper in return for real goods and services.
Yeah, and what are they supposed to accept instead?


Not your toilet paper mate.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1009
Its not possible unless dumb dumb Congress refuse to raise debt ceiling.  Which is political issue not monetary one.

Debt owed to foreigners are in form of bonds not goods & services
True. Some guys here don't have an idea about national accounting, balance of payments, international investment position and stuff.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
Its not possible unless dumb dumb Congress refuse to raise debt ceiling.  Which is political issue not monetary one.

Debt owed to foreigners are in form of bonds not goods & services
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1009
Of course the US can default on their own debt.  When the Chinese, Japanese and Germans stop accepting paper in return for real goods and services.
Yeah, and what are they supposed to accept instead?
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Of course the US can default on their own debt.  When the Chinese, Japanese and Germans stop accepting paper in return for real goods and services.

And why would they do that? Because the US isn't the world's policeman anymore.

Or maybe the Saudis decide to accept a digital coin they can trust.  Man, they could issue their own coin for oil.  OilCoin!  You heard it here first.

Get your head in and stick to the Blockchain!
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1009
While I agree that absurdly low(artificially low is how I usually refer to it) interest rates are a huge problem, as it doesn't allow for a price discovery mechanism to operate, brutally punishes savers, and rewards gamblers, this isn't the whole problem. After all the very same NON governmental "authority" setting interest rates also "prints" the nation's currency, which it then lends to congress with interest. Plainly there's no legitimate reason to do this as congress is granted the authority to print our currency directly without interest, which is why there's a US treasury(they still stamp our coins). However if you're a politician in DC and you want to spend more than you're taking in it's fantastic, as you can inflate the budget to your heart's content and saddle future generations with that debt. This wouldn't be possible with a sound currency. You cannot simply whip up an extra trillion gold certificates as someone may well try to exchange those certificates for gold you do not have.
Nah. You don't seem to understand our current monetary system. That's become clear when you wrote this old "saddle future generations with debt" manthra.
Government debt is not a burden, it's a monetary instrument for the monetary system. That's why congress doesn't simply print the currency but issues debt. If it started printing, the Fed would have to start selling its own debt (net effect would be zero) or just let rates plunge to zero forever without the ability to raise them.

Also government debt is an asset for private sector. When government is running fiscal deficit, it isn't saddling future generations with debt, it provides current generation with an asset. Perfect credit risk free asset. Moreover only the government sector and the foreign sector are able to add net monetary assets to the domestic private sector. Government does it through deficit spending, the foreign sector does it through current account deficit (for the foreign sector).

You ignore the fact that it's impossible (well, only possible if you're dumb) to default on your own debt in your own currency.

If you imply that Fed is ruled by banksters then you imply that all government is too. But it's not a monetary problem, but a political one.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
^
You seem bitter.
And undercooked.

Earthling Angry
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