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Topic: Fuck: SegWit, LN, Blockstream, Core, Adam Back, and GMazwell - page 11. (Read 46265 times)

legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
There are large amount of fake supporters for BlockStream/Core/SegWit:
https://twitter.com/nikzh/status/851398297491296256
Nikita Zhavoronkov: Much Sybil. Such attack!
Ethically speaking, Blockstream/Core are just about the lowest you can go.  Adam Back and Greg Maxwell are poison and have to be eliminated despite their fancy PhD.  We can't have a centralized, for profit head of Bitcoin.  That is all Blockstream and AXA are trying to bring forth.  Time to get a few guys with technical competence and no paycheck from Adam Back to retake over Core.

We need a new dev team that would take a name Bitcoin-Core to show the world how stupid it is to follow one particular branch of development as if it was the sole owner of the Bitcoin network. Also that new dev team should implement Flexible Transactions but they should name it SegWit. Sure there will be confusion but there's nothing worth saving in the current core camp.
hero member
Activity: 874
Merit: 1000
There are large amount of fake supporters for BlockStream/Core/SegWit:
https://twitter.com/nikzh/status/851398297491296256
Nikita Zhavoronkov: Much Sybil. Such attack!
Ethically speaking, Blockstream/Core are just about the lowest you can go.  Adam Back and Greg Maxwell are poison and have to be eliminated despite their fancy PhD.  We can't have a centralized, for profit head of Bitcoin.  That is all Blockstream and AXA are trying to bring forth.  Time to get a few guys with technical competence and no paycheck from Adam Back to retake over Core.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/851412199910322176
Emin Gün Sirer: Bitcoin's big mistake was centralizing the client and the dev team. Getting those decentralized will be as painful as it is essential.

There are large amount of fake supporters for BlockStream/Core/SegWit:
https://twitter.com/nikzh/status/851398297491296256
Nikita Zhavoronkov: Much Sybil. Such attack!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9DF9WzXUAALuvw.jpg

BlockStream is probably building their own botnet for UASF.


newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
This whole ASICBoost bullshit is yet another distraction from Blockstream/Core keeping the blocksize at 1M and screwing everyone else over.

ASICBoost was out of the bag ages ago, patents don't stop any nameless mining farm from building their own ASICBoost rigs. If Core don't like ASICBoost, they should just fix the damn code instead of crying about it every year.

The ASICBoost write paper used way too much tech jargon, and when it comes to implementations all you get is "We will not discuss the optimal solution in this paper, but further information can be provided by the author on request."

So a year later half the devs still don't know how it works, if the devs can't even figure it out, it'll be even worse for users, so you end up with all these trolls trying to get away with making the most ridiculous statements, creating new enemy-of-the-week trying to distract people from Blockstream/Core's own fuck ups.

ASICBoost is:
1. A programming short cut of using 3 sha256 operations instead of 4 when mining a block hash.

2. It is possible because sha256 processes data in 64 bytes chunks, but the header is 80 bytes long.

3. So the block header is split into 2 chunks when sha256 computes its hash.

4. The merkle root inside the block header, spans over the position that sha256 split the chunks.

5. The merkle root is 32 bytes, 28 bytes of it (head) ended up in the first chunk, 4 bytes of it (tail) ended up in the 2nd chunk.

6. The second chunk has 16 bytes of data and 48 bytes of padding.

7. Of the 16 bytes of the data in the second chunk, 4bytes is the merkle root tail, the other 12 bytes are  time/difficulty/nonce, all known values by the miner.

8. That means if a miner can generate a bunch of hash with the same last 4 bytes, then the entire 2nd chunk, all 16+48 bytes of it becomes a fixed known value.

9. A fixed value means it can be reused, this allows miners to simplify the sha256 mining loop, so that it only uses 3 sha256 operations instead of 4 and increase efficiency.

10. The more 'hash with the same last 4 bytes' a miner can generate, the more times they can use the short cut, the more performance gain, this process is called 'finding partial hash collision'.

11. To generate these partial hash collisions, miners have to keep changing the data on the block then get a new hash at high speed, but different ways have different costs, only a few of them is worth while.

12. One of the fastest way to find hash collisions is to keep changing the extranonce in the coinbase, at the same time keep reordering tx in the block. This modifies both side of the merkle tree parallelly and allow further math shortcuts to take place.

13. Changing the coinbase and reordering tx is computationally costly, it is only worthwhile if you can do both at the same time without affecting each other.

14. In regular Bitcoin, modifying tx changes the right side of the merkle tree, and modifying the coinbase changes the left side of the merkle tree, the coinbase on the left doesn't care what happens to the tx on the right, and vice versa. There are no double overhead modifying data on any side, so in the end you can gain a 20% advantage with ASICBoost.

15. But if the coinbase merkle root includes the hash of all the tx, then ASICBoost is no longer worth the effort, in fact it'd make mining slower, because now every time you reorder the tx, the coinbase also changes, and you have to use an extra 10 or so operations to update the left side of the merkle tree. That 20% advantage is gone.

16. This is what happens in BIP-141 SegWit, the coinbase has a new merkle root call the 'witness root hash', that includes all regular and side tx. This makes the reordering tx also updates the coinbase, miners have to run extra operations for each reordering, this double overhead makes it too costly to use ASICBoost.

17. Extension Block is base on BIP-141, they have the same commitment structure, so Extension Block is immune to ASICBoost.

18. If anyone is using ASICBoost, the 'overt' method involves modifying block header data directly, so you'll see strange version numbers and other weird data, the 'covert' method involves reordering of tx, or empty blocks, these are also obvious.

19. If there is a new way to use ASICBoost without obvious side effects, then it's just another valid optimization on generating hash, optimization happens all the time.

20. The excuse of ASICBoost patent may lead to centralization is also silly, there are so many patent involved with mining already, from chip to connectors to cooling, everywhere you look there is a patent. Mining is so competitive, every year there are a bunch of new optimizations with a new bunch of patents. The biggest problem with ASICBoost is once it's used, it'll leave obvious patterns in the blockchain, the anomalies will be spotted very quickly.


legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
So much hate by people that don't contribute anything else but forum posts. Meanwhile Gmaxwell has uncovered the ASICBOOT thing and continues improving Core software. You are all amateurs.
Go read Sam Cole's piece on ASICBOOST.  You are the fucking amateur.

I don't understand the part about why he said it would make zero sense
to split have the cores on a chip...and that would be retarded engineering,
(but Bitmain somehow accomplished this anyway??)
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
That's exactly why I started to promote BU and discredit and disrespect Segwit / Core everywhere on the Internet where I go. My topic got moved to altcoins section when I wanted to help to solve the block size problem constructively in the Bitcoin technical forums. For me censorship is like a red towel to a bull. I didn't care much about the debate nor about high TX fees because for me they are not too high and I always use estimateTxFee to get my TXs confirmed in 10 minutes like in the good old times. But censoring me, it's like a personal insult!

You are not alone there.
Nobody did more to help BU than Core themselves with their censoring. Roger Ver and Jihan pale in comparison. Every day new users who were censored or shadow banned on reddit.com/r/bitcoin come to /r/btc where they can enjoy free speech.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
As for this particular thread, since it doesn't directly discuss an alternative client, it's unlikely this thread would have been moved anyway, even under the old rules.  
Are you kidding me?  They still censor me ALL the time.  More than half the stuff I post gets clipped.  The forum remains biased.  But, I do think their censorship did ultimately have a very bad opposite effect.  BU started to get popular when people started to notice en masse that Core was trying to silence the opposing argument.  So, I'd have to say they got what they deserved.  People who enjoy the philosophy of Bitcoin - don't really care much for things like censorship.

PhDs or not, they should have figured that out.  Core guys aren't really very good at figuring some things.

That's exactly why I started to promote BU and discredit and disrespect Segwit / Core everywhere on the Internet where I go. My topic got moved to altcoins section when I wanted to help to solve the block size problem constructively in the Bitcoin technical forums. For me censorship is like a red towel to a bull. I didn't care much about the debate nor about high TX fees because for me they are not too high and I always use estimateTxFee to get my TXs confirmed in 10 minutes like in the good old times. But censoring me, it's like a personal insult!
hero member
Activity: 874
Merit: 1000
As for this particular thread, since it doesn't directly discuss an alternative client, it's unlikely this thread would have been moved anyway, even under the old rules.  
Are you kidding me?  They still censor me ALL the time.  More than half the stuff I post gets clipped.  The forum remains biased.  But, I do think their censorship did ultimately have a very bad opposite effect.  BU started to get popular when people started to notice en masse that Core was trying to silence the opposing argument.  So, I'd have to say they got what they deserved.  People who enjoy the philosophy of Bitcoin - don't really care much for things like censorship.

PhDs or not, they should have figured that out.  Core guys aren't really very good at figuring some things.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 3191
Leave no FUD unchallenged
So what is this thread not censored if the title is "Fuck: SegWit, LN, Blockstream, Core, Adam Back, and GMazwell", and it has 27 pages already.

Looks like the censorship claims were all fake.

There was definitely a time when threads discussing alternative clients would have been silently swept into the altcoins section, but I think it finally dawned on the admins that it wasn't achieving the intended goal (quite the opposite, in fact), so I haven't noticed them doing it lately.  Talk about learning your lesson the hard way, though.  As for this particular thread, since it doesn't directly discuss an alternative client, it's unlikely this thread would have been moved anyway, even under the old rules. 

Personally, I feel that even if people don't agree with alternative clients, it's better to shine a light on the pros and particularly the cons, allowing people to make up their own mind, rather than trying to railroad discussions in one particular direction.  Bias is just one of the reasons this scaling topic has become so toxic and polarised.  Discussions should ideally be as open and transparent as the blockchain itself.  If one "side" feels dismissed or overlooked, it only entrenches their views.  Also, sometimes people just like rooting for what might be perceived as the plucky underdog fighting against unfair odds, so it's best if people don't get the impression that one implementation is given preferential treatment over others.
hero member
Activity: 874
Merit: 1000
So much hate by people that don't contribute anything else but forum posts. Meanwhile Gmaxwell has uncovered the ASICBOOT thing and continues improving Core software. You are all amateurs.
Go read Sam Cole's piece on ASICBOOST.  You are the fucking amateur.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1028
So much hate by people that don't contribute anything else but forum posts. Meanwhile Gmaxwell has uncovered the ASICBOOT thing and continues improving Core software. You are all amateurs.

newbie
Activity: 54
Merit: 0
BTU has president not Bitcoin. You are BTU shill and your nick contains 'BTC' pretty strange Undecided
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
It is disgusting how arrogant the fuckers are.  Just because they have commit access and a few PhDs, they think they own the blockchain and can convert it to their personal profits via Lightning.  

Even if BU is total shit and buggy, it can be fixed.  You can never fix those assholes Adam Back and G Maxwell with the corrupt censorship and dishonest PR campaigns.  Time to flush the toilet.

Well said.

If they have the talent, they may afford this kind of arrogance.
But SegWit is such an overly complex bloated piece of shit, they clearly don't have it, or they're intentionally fucking up Bitcoin.

Nobody worth their salt will stay working with these arrogant but untalented kidults.
That's why people like Joseph Poon (first author of Lightning Network) is now going against Blockstream.

Here is the funny part, the Blockstream/Core walk around acting like they represent the 'Bitcoin Community', but Adam Back, the 'President' of Blockstream, never believed in Bitcoin and never even committed a single line of code to the Bitcoin Core code base.
full member
Activity: 235
Merit: 100
So what is this thread not censored if the title is "Fuck: SegWit, LN, Blockstream, Core, Adam Back, and GMazwell", and it has 27 pages already.

Looks like the censorship claims were all fake.

full member
Activity: 235
Merit: 100

Guess the majority of the Bitcoin miners are not bitcoiners then.  Cheesy

you mean stupid greedy Wu and his puppets? I can't call them solid bitcoiners, obviously they think only about their income and not about essential Bitcoin value like decentralization, they are using their hash advantage to break and hinder bitcoin progress, they may short bitcoin and pump some alts like Roger Ver does.

Hypocrisy overload. Come on, this is hilarious, you see a threat to decentralization in mining but you don't see it in reference client implementation. I'll bet there's a documented mental pathology to describe your condition ... probably something to do with the frontal lobe.

Client implementations are always centralized, that's how Github works. Try to get a commit accepted by BU devs that removes the EC code. They won't accept it.
Glad you aren't involved in Peercoin anymore.
hero member
Activity: 874
Merit: 1000
You know Blockstream is fucked when even the leading LN devs go against them in public, stating what everyone knew all along: Core runs PR and trolling campaigns:
It is disgusting how arrogant the fuckers are.  Just because they have commit access and a few PhDs, they think they own the blockchain and can convert it to their personal profits via Lightning. 

Even if BU is total shit and buggy, it can be fixed.  You can never fix those assholes Adam Back and G Maxwell with the corrupt censorship and dishonest PR campaigns.  Time to flush the toilet.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
This just in:

http://telegra.ph/Inside-the-Dragons-Den-Bitcoin-Cores-Troll-Army-04-07
Inside the Dragon's Den: Bitcoin Core's Troll Army
April 07, 2017

Here's what is known:

1. Poon alluded to "a secret channel where they organize their PR and trolling campaigns" which is "basically where a lot of decisions around PR happens."

2. There is a secret channel on the Bitcoin Core slack called #dragonsden

3. There are 21 members in this chat group, as of January 27th, 2017 (the date of Cohen's talk)

4. The known members of this channel, based on the information in the above glimpse of the channel are: BashCo (/r/bitcoin moderator), mrhodl (twitter troll), alp (twitter troll), moli (unknown), belcher (JoinMarket developer), BtcDrak (Bitcoin Core developer/activist) and Bram Cohen. These seven members represent 1/3rd of the total members in the channel.

5. BashCo is Theymos's second in command. Fellow /r/bitcoin moderator ThePiachu wrote in a blog post:
   
6. This establishes proof that there is collusion between Bitcoin Core and the moderation team of /r/Bitcoin.

7. At least one Bitcoin Core developer is present in this chat. There are 14 more chat members we cannot see.

This information provides further evidence of the Bitcoin Core propaganda machine and demonstrates the conclusive link between Bitcoin Core and the /r/Bitcoin moderation team. Everything written above is factual and verifiable.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
You know Blockstream is fucked when even the leading LN devs go against them in public, stating what everyone knew all along: Core runs PR and trolling campaigns:

Quote
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-core-runs-trolling-campaigns-says-lightning-network-developer/
Bitcoin Core Runs “Trolling Campaigns”, Says Lightning Network Developer

Joseph Poon, Lightning Network developer, has publicly stated today that Bitcoin Core has “a secret channel where they organize their PR and trolling campaigns.” He further stated that “many people have talked about it (more than 5 people) and it’s alluded to it in various places which are publicly accessible since it’s basically where a lot of decisions around PR happens.”

Speculations regarding organized trollings by Blockstream specifically have been made for quite some time, especially after Alex Bergeron, better known on reddit as brg444, who constantly argued in favor of Blockstream in a somewhat trolling manner, was actually hired by Blockstream.

However, it is the first time someone prominent and well-known has publicly stated Bitcoin Core is running trolling campaigns in secret channels which may explain some of the toxicity coming out of some parts of bitcoin’s community.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
We have our new "Blockstream's lie of the week", this time the enemy is the ASICs, again.

Looks like the block extension proposal really fucked Blockstream big time.
It is simple and it solves immediate blocksize problems.
 
What's even better is that the Block Extension is "party neutral" so Blockstream can't even go against it by bashing the BU straw man, so they needed to create another enemy to distract people for another week, Blockstream ran out of excuses so now they have to regurgitate bullshits from a year ago:

Quote
https://twitter.com/olivierjanss/status/731198742968291329
Olivier Janssens, 12:05 PM - 13 May 2016 - ‏@olivierjanss: Note to miners: We, the core devs, discovered a patented optimization in your ASIC. We will make it obsolete in the next update. Thank you.
Quote
Luke Parker, 30 Apr 2016 - AsicBoost claims 20% efficiency improvement in Bitcoin mining
https://bravenewcoin.com/news/asicboost-claims-20-efficiency-improvement-in-bitcoin-mining/

The bullshit didn't work then, it doesn't work now.

If you're a newbie all you need to know is every time people from Blockstream open their mouth, it's a lie. Blockstream spent millions on SegWit, they have a deadline coming, but their walls are crumbling and even LN devs are going against them now.

The good thing about this ASICboost bullshit is that it makes it so obvious who the paid shills are on this forum. These dumb fucks are paid to jump to conclusion with zero facts, all you need to do is ask them for proofs, then they break down and disappear (the stupid ones argue back and make their shilling look even more obvious).
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
MMmm looks like Jihan Wu is going to lose more and more supporters with that covert patented anti segwit tech on the ASIC machines he sells... he was ripping off people basically.

Ripping people off how? Why does it matter what any miner does as long as they do the hashing?

He won't have a good answer. 

Greg, you must be quite pleased at the effectiveness of the propaganda your camp is putting out.
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