Gavin will visit the CIA - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

RodeoX

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Quote from: kentrolla on August 07, 2012, 02:50:40 AM

ok so just 1 yes/no question:
Is it possible that Gavin gave the CIA a method to shutdown Bitcoin?

No. And what "method" are we talking about, because I know of no such method.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: kentrolla on August 07, 2012, 02:50:40 AM

ok so just 1 yes/no question:
Is it possible that Gavin gave the CIA a method to shutdown Bitcoin?

No

kentrolla

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ok so just 1 yes/no question:
Is it possible that Gavin gave the CIA a method to shutdown Bitcoin?

Pieter Wuille

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Quote from: rjk on August 06, 2012, 05:28:07 PM

OK, thanks for helping me to understand about the propagation part of it. So what you are saying is that such messages are being shuffled around in limbo via the P2P network, but don't touch the blockchain ever?

Exactly.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: Dusty on August 06, 2012, 04:55:01 PM

Quote from: rjk on August 06, 2012, 10:26:08 AM

It's been used several times. If you install an old client, you will see a warning at the bottom that says that it is insecure and needs to be updated. That warning message is actually stored in the blockchain.

No, it's not. It's an alert message that is being broadcast into the network.
Each client can decide if/how show it.
Also, in principle, different clients could use different signing keys.

OK, thanks for helping me to understand about the propagation part of it. So what you are saying is that such messages are being shuffled around in limbo via the P2P network, but don't touch the blockchain ever?

Dusty

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Quote from: rjk on August 06, 2012, 10:26:08 AM

It's been used several times. If you install an old client, you will see a warning at the bottom that says that it is insecure and needs to be updated. That warning message is actually stored in the blockchain.

No, it's not. It's an alert message that is being broadcast into the network.
Each client can decide if/how show it.
Also, in principle, different clients could use different signing keys.

Pieter Wuille

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Quote from: kentrolla on August 06, 2012, 11:00:33 AM

so if gavin gave the CIA that key. then the cia could corrupt the blockchain whenever they want? or at least make a malicious bitcoin client "update"

No. The only thing that this key can do is signing an alert message that propagates through the network.

Satoshi, Gavin and theymos have this key, IIRC.

mobile4ever

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Quote from: kentrolla on August 06, 2012, 11:00:33 AM

so if gavin gave the CIA that key. then the cia could corrupt the blockchain whenever they want? or at least make a malicious bitcoin client "update"

Here is hoping he shows up and answers this... Huh

terrytibbs

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Quote from: MoonShadow on August 06, 2012, 09:45:33 AM

There is no such of that kind of master key, either. That was only a proposal discussed a couple years ago that never went anywhere.

...

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: rjk on August 06, 2012, 11:03:36 AM

Quote from: kentrolla on August 06, 2012, 11:00:33 AM

so if gavin gave the CIA that key. then the cia could corrupt the blockchain whenever they want? or at least make a malicious bitcoin client "update"

The functionality is just for messaging, it can't force an update or anything like that. Worst that I think could happen is they send a message that shows at the bottom of the client window that says the client needs to be upgraded because of a security problem. But then, they would also have to create a bogus update, get it signed with a DIFFERENT key that is used for software releases, and upload it to github/sourceforge without being detected. It would be difficult and complicated to pull off.

No need in such complicated actions. Bitcoin clients/services could be easily DDoSed.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: kentrolla on August 06, 2012, 11:00:33 AM

so if gavin gave the CIA that key. then the cia could corrupt the blockchain whenever they want? or at least make a malicious bitcoin client "update"

The functionality is just for messaging, it can't force an update or anything like that. Worst that I think could happen is they send a message that shows at the bottom of the client window that says the client needs to be upgraded because of a security problem. But then, they would also have to create a bogus update, get it signed with a DIFFERENT key that is used for software releases, and upload it to github/sourceforge without being detected. It would be difficult and complicated to pull off.

kentrolla

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so if gavin gave the CIA that key. then the cia could corrupt the blockchain whenever they want? or at least make a malicious bitcoin client "update"

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: MoonShadow on August 06, 2012, 09:45:33 AM

Quote from: rjk on August 06, 2012, 09:20:18 AM

Quote from: BkkCoins on August 06, 2012, 08:49:39 AM

There is no master key. That would make it all worthless.

The "master key" in this case is the key that is used to sign messages that get broadcast to all nodes, for instance to warn of a security vulnerability. As far as I know, that particular key isn't used for anything else, but I'm not sure of that.

There is no such of that kind of master key, either. That was only a proposal discussed a couple years ago that never went anywhere.

It's been used several times. If you install an old client, you will see a warning at the bottom that says that it is insecure and needs to be updated. That warning message is actually stored in the blockchain.

mobile4ever

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Quote from: Gabi on August 06, 2012, 10:09:49 AM

As far as i know the "master key" is only for messages. Anyway, the client is opensource so it's not like they can hide a code that will let someone control everyone Cheesy

That is the power of FOSS. Those who have large investments in bitccoin can revive it on their own to maintain their investment. The rest of the users profit as well from the open source design.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: Gabi on August 06, 2012, 10:09:49 AM

As far as i know the "master key" is only for messages. Anyway, the client is opensource so it's not like they can hide a code that will let someone control everyone Cheesy

I bet anyone revises the source code.

Gabi

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As far as i know the "master key" is only for messages. Anyway, the client is opensource so it's not like they can hide a code that will let someone control everyone Cheesy

MoonShadow

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Quote from: rjk on August 06, 2012, 09:20:18 AM

Quote from: BkkCoins on August 06, 2012, 08:49:39 AM

There is no master key. That would make it all worthless.

The "master key" in this case is the key that is used to sign messages that get broadcast to all nodes, for instance to warn of a security vulnerability. As far as I know, that particular key isn't used for anything else, but I'm not sure of that.

There is no such of that kind of master key, either. That was only a proposal discussed a couple years ago that never went anywhere.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: BkkCoins on August 06, 2012, 08:49:39 AM

There is no master key. That would make it all worthless.

The "master key" in this case is the key that is used to sign messages that get broadcast to all nodes, for instance to warn of a security vulnerability. As far as I know, that particular key isn't used for anything else, but I'm not sure of that.

Gyrsur

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Quote from: BkkCoins on August 06, 2012, 08:49:39 AM

Quote from: ianbakewell on August 06, 2012, 08:44:23 AM

Forgive my ignorance, still learning here.

Is Bitcoin at risk should an individual lead developer (or all of them together) become compromised?
Does a "master key" exist that one could give up to an alphabet agency, enabling the agency to do harm to the blockchain?

Quote from: kentrolla on August 06, 2012, 07:27:26 AM

so did gavin give the cia the master key?

There is no master key. That would make it all worthless.
But I suspect that if Gavin was compromised it would have a negative impact.

If Gavin was compromised and would delay the Bitcoin experiment other people would take over his part and put Bitcoin forward.

But Bitcoin is still an experiment if you look around. What I can see is speculation, gambling, hoarding. Not interesting for ordinary people at the moment. IMHO

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Quote from: ianbakewell on August 06, 2012, 08:44:23 AM

Forgive my ignorance, still learning here.

Is Bitcoin at risk should an individual lead developer (or all of them together) become compromised?
Does a "master key" exist that one could give up to an alphabet agency, enabling the agency to do harm to the blockchain?

Quote from: kentrolla on August 06, 2012, 07:27:26 AM

so did gavin give the cia the master key?

There is no master key. That would make it all worthless.
But I suspect that if Gavin was compromised it would have a negative impact.

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