GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-) - page 187.

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: Honeycutt22 on August 31, 2014, 08:49:37 PM

Don't they usually do test runs on private servers before they do major rollouts?

Affirmative. There have been a few store "upgrades" where they switched gawminers.com from one shopping platform to another, and it's pretty clear they don't have dev/test environments (or if they do they are horribly clueless about it). Orders got lost, order numbers didn't match, even amounts got all messed up because coupons and discounts didn't transfer. It took weeks to get points and store credit back after one of the upgrades. Same thing with helpdesk transition, my tickets got closed/merged/etc with no rhyme or reason. Just the sheer number of these "upgrades" and migrations (I think it's in double digits now if you count store, helpdesk, and forums) in their 5 months shows a fairly substantial lack of competence.

rdyoung

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Quote from: Honeycutt22 on August 31, 2014, 08:49:37 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 08:19:02 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 01:23:02 PM

Quote from: Honeycutt22 on August 31, 2014, 12:24:18 PM

Neone know when the new hashtalk.org will be up? or did they change the site addy?

"tomorrow"

AFAIK the address will not change.

The new hashtalk is up.

The new scamtalk! Sweet!

New forum is having ALL sorts of issues... Suprising such a well funded company can't seem to get a forum conversion done properly. Don't they usually do test runs on private servers before they do major rollouts? I can't even register or anything:(

You or I would. But Josh likes to live life by the seat of his hashlets.

The way I would do this whole changing of forum software dance? You setup the new software on a different server and start migrating data, etc. Once its up and running to your satisfaction you point the dns at the new instance, and your good to go.

Honeycutt22

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Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 08:56:20 PM

Quote from: dyask on August 31, 2014, 08:44:26 PM

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 07:32:12 PM

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

Why should all types of payments come from the same wallet? That would be horrible money management. You don't seem to have any valid logic here.

I am not sure how that logic is flawed. In any business money ebbs and flows, crypto mining its even more fluid. Investors give you money, that money in theory should be spent on your business. Even if gaw gets enough cash usd coming in via credit/debit purchases, they still need a source for the payouts, there should be large funding transactions from either the earnings from the mining/exchange of alts, or the unicorns that are renting the hashpower from zenpool. Since there are no large transactions, something is fishy.

Update on the load/withdrawal, it got swept into the 1Gc address almost immediately.

What's that mean exactly?

rdyoung

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Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dyask on August 31, 2014, 08:44:26 PM

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 07:32:12 PM

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

Why should all types of payments come from the same wallet? That would be horrible money management. You don't seem to have any valid logic here.

I am not sure how that logic is flawed. In any business money ebbs and flows, crypto mining its even more fluid. Investors give you money, that money in theory should be spent on your business. Even if gaw gets enough cash usd coming in via credit/debit purchases, they still need a source for the payouts, there should be large funding transactions from either the earnings from the mining/exchange of alts, or the unicorns that are renting the hashpower from zenpool. Since there are no large transactions, something is fishy.

Update on the load/withdrawal, it got swept into the 1Gc address almost immediately.

Honeycutt22

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 08:19:02 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 01:23:02 PM

Quote from: Honeycutt22 on August 31, 2014, 12:24:18 PM

Neone know when the new hashtalk.org will be up? or did they change the site addy?

"tomorrow"

AFAIK the address will not change.

The new hashtalk is up.

The new scamtalk! Sweet!

New forum is having ALL sorts of issues... Suprising such a well funded company can't seem to get a forum conversion done properly. Don't they usually do test runs on private servers before they do major rollouts? I can't even register or anything:(

dyask

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 510

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 07:32:12 PM

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

Why should all types of payments come from the same wallet? That would be horrible money management. You don't seem to have any valid logic here.

suchmoon

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Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 01:23:02 PM

Quote from: Honeycutt22 on August 31, 2014, 12:24:18 PM

Neone know when the new hashtalk.org will be up? or did they change the site addy?

"tomorrow"

AFAIK the address will not change.

The new hashtalk is up.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: Mesterlovesz74 on August 31, 2014, 07:13:16 PM

So, my question is the following: What is this new hashlets and why they are different? What is the purpose of making so many?

Also, who cares if it is a ponzi scheme or not? Buy a 15 Mhs hashlet of any kind around 0,54 BTC and find it out! I will do that and I will see if I will ROI within 2 months! If I will then it was a fine investment, without electricity and without the problems of which coin to mine!!!

There isn't any purpose except perhaps to justify PrimeHashlet's price? That pool branding is super weird considering that they don't mine on those pools.

Good luck with your investment, don't forget to tell all your friends to keep it going.

Honeycutt22

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 07:49:28 PM

Well someone has been reading this thread, there are several sizeable withdrawals from that wallet.

Yea we know josh and some of the moderators read it.

rdyoung

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Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Well someone has been reading this thread, there are several sizeable withdrawals from that wallet.

rdyoung

legendary

Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: MOB on August 31, 2014, 07:12:41 PM

My Zenpool payouts come from the address you linked. Do your payouts also come from that address?

Not sure what we can glean from this though. There is no large origin payment that funds this address, but rather all microtransaction to and from. So it seems this represents one of the hotwallets into which users deposit and withdraw, but is not a mining wallet or GAW-funded wallet.

I can't find anything potentially useful other than the date of the first payment being August 9th.

It would be nice to find more addresses that Zenpool uses-does anyone have a different one? Do a few withdrawals and re-adds and see what you find?

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

rdyoung

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Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Mesterlovesz74 on August 31, 2014, 07:13:16 PM

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 06:21:32 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 06:12:09 PM

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 05:57:50 PM

Here is the address withdrawals from zen come from.
https://blockchain.info/address/16GcxcPVmZyKiRap3hmY7u5fHkDKnAjduJ

If you look through the transactions there aren't any large transactions being moved in/out, its all funds coming in (likely from hashlet purchases) and going out, withdrawals from zencloud.
This supports the straight ponzi theory. Look at the b.mine derivative on havelock, (not saying its a ponzi, I know what b.mine is) with the difficulty increasing and earnings dropping, you can theoretically keep a cryptomining ponzi going for quite sometime.

Aside from potentially poor money management practices (why mix sales and payouts) it doesn't really show much. This could be one of many accounts. If it was the only one it would be really scary, only 50k USD remaining Grin

But there are credit card sales, hashpoints/ZenCloud internal sales, etc. I doubt we can get a full picture from outside.

True, but the poor money management goes in the ponzi category. I run a few mining "funds/investments" for friends family, and even on the small scale of that, I still have seperate addresses for power costs, reinvestment, etc.

So, my question is the following: What is this new hashlets and why they are different? What is the purpose of making so many?

Also, who cares if it is a ponzi scheme or not? Buy a 15 Mhs hashlet of any kind around 0,54 BTC and find it out! I will do that and I will see if I will ROI within 2 months! If I will then it was a fine investment, without electricity and without the problems of which coin to mine!!!

Your logic is faulty. First, the only one you will hit positive roi with in 60 days is the zenpool solo, the others pay what you would earn on average with most multipools. And even if you do positive roi, that doesn't make it a fine investment, that just means that those that bought after you paid you out.

Mesterlovesz74

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Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 06:21:32 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 06:12:09 PM

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 05:57:50 PM

Here is the address withdrawals from zen come from.
https://blockchain.info/address/16GcxcPVmZyKiRap3hmY7u5fHkDKnAjduJ

If you look through the transactions there aren't any large transactions being moved in/out, its all funds coming in (likely from hashlet purchases) and going out, withdrawals from zencloud.
This supports the straight ponzi theory. Look at the b.mine derivative on havelock, (not saying its a ponzi, I know what b.mine is) with the difficulty increasing and earnings dropping, you can theoretically keep a cryptomining ponzi going for quite sometime.

Aside from potentially poor money management practices (why mix sales and payouts) it doesn't really show much. This could be one of many accounts. If it was the only one it would be really scary, only 50k USD remaining Grin

But there are credit card sales, hashpoints/ZenCloud internal sales, etc. I doubt we can get a full picture from outside.

True, but the poor money management goes in the ponzi category. I run a few mining "funds/investments" for friends family, and even on the small scale of that, I still have seperate addresses for power costs, reinvestment, etc.

So, my question is the following: What is this new hashlets and why they are different? What is the purpose of making so many?

Also, who cares if it is a ponzi scheme or not? Buy a 15 Mhs hashlet of any kind around 0,54 BTC and find it out! I will do that and I will see if I will ROI within 2 months! If I will then it was a fine investment, without electricity and without the problems of which coin to mine!!!

MOB

hero member

Activity: 493

Merit: 504

My Zenpool payouts come from the address you linked. Do your payouts also come from that address?

Not sure what we can glean from this though. There is no large origin payment that funds this address, but rather all microtransaction to and from. So it seems this represents one of the hotwallets into which users deposit and withdraw, but is not a mining wallet or GAW-funded wallet.

I can't find anything potentially useful other than the date of the first payment being August 9th.

It would be nice to find more addresses that Zenpool uses-does anyone have a different one? Do a few withdrawals and re-adds and see what you find?

rdyoung

legendary

Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 06:12:09 PM

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 05:57:50 PM

Here is the address withdrawals from zen come from.
https://blockchain.info/address/16GcxcPVmZyKiRap3hmY7u5fHkDKnAjduJ

If you look through the transactions there aren't any large transactions being moved in/out, its all funds coming in (likely from hashlet purchases) and going out, withdrawals from zencloud.
This supports the straight ponzi theory. Look at the b.mine derivative on havelock, (not saying its a ponzi, I know what b.mine is) with the difficulty increasing and earnings dropping, you can theoretically keep a cryptomining ponzi going for quite sometime.

Aside from potentially poor money management practices (why mix sales and payouts) it doesn't really show much. This could be one of many accounts. If it was the only one it would be really scary, only 50k USD remaining Grin

But there are credit card sales, hashpoints/ZenCloud internal sales, etc. I doubt we can get a full picture from outside.

True, but the poor money management goes in the ponzi category. I run a few mining "funds/investments" for friends family, and even on the small scale of that, I still have seperate addresses for power costs, reinvestment, etc.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 05:57:50 PM

Here is the address withdrawals from zen come from.
https://blockchain.info/address/16GcxcPVmZyKiRap3hmY7u5fHkDKnAjduJ

If you look through the transactions there aren't any large transactions being moved in/out, its all funds coming in (likely from hashlet purchases) and going out, withdrawals from zencloud.
This supports the straight ponzi theory. Look at the b.mine derivative on havelock, (not saying its a ponzi, I know what b.mine is) with the difficulty increasing and earnings dropping, you can theoretically keep a cryptomining ponzi going for quite sometime.

Aside from potentially poor money management practices (why mix sales and payouts) it doesn't really show much. This could be one of many accounts. If it was the only one it would be really scary, only 50k USD remaining Grin

But there are credit card sales, hashpoints/ZenCloud internal sales, etc. I doubt we can get a full picture from outside.

rdyoung

legendary

Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: MOB on August 31, 2014, 05:11:08 PM

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 03:47:45 PM

Quote from: MOB on August 31, 2014, 03:27:37 PM

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 03:21:33 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 03:03:15 PM

Quote from: crazyivan on August 31, 2014, 02:47:29 PM

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

"ordinary" get paid less, "prime" gets paid ~50% more. ROI is anyone's guess since we don't know anything about the impact of e.g. rising hashrate/difficulty or other typical mining risks. 1 MH/s Prime currently gets about 0.0005-0.0006 BTC per day after fees.

Don't forget its also possible that they aren't mining at all. Hopefully they are doing some kind of day trading or something, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Did you miss my post?

Josh stated that the Zenpool income is primarily based upon leasing or renting pools to 3rd parties.

Then mining BTC, scrypt, scrypt-N, and day trading also all go into generating Zenpool payouts.

So while increased mining difficulty would be a factor, if we take Josh's words at face value, then they would be only a small factor in Zenpool's payouts.

No I didn't miss your post. Did you miss mine? Joshes answers to the questions reminds of me a line from BL2. I fought a shark in a bow tie, Who was wearing the bow tie, me or the shark? Yes.

Josh is basically utilizing every possible avenue for money generation, but no one successfully divides up their investments like that. They are also paying 11%/annum for held balances in zencloud, that is a sign that they need the money to stick around, they don't want people pulling it else they run out of funds to pay for "zenpool"

The renting option is dubious to me because who in their right mind is going to pay 50%+ more than nicehash, betarigs, etc is paying out. Not to mention there is no proof that the vaultbreakers are even in joshes hands.

I completely agree that it should be treated with a grain of salt, but unless this is a pure Ponzi (and even then) I think it is a safe assumption that they are day trading with funds. If Josh is telling the truth, then they are. If it is a Ponzi, and everything he says is a lie, then why not trade anyway and go for even larger profits, plus the potential to keep the game going longer.

As far as pool rentals goes, I have no idea how to interpret that in a way that makes sense. The day trading I believe.

Here is one of the addresses withdrawals from zen come from.
https://blockchain.info/address/16GcxcPVmZyKiRap3hmY7u5fHkDKnAjduJ

If you look through the transactions there aren't any large transactions being moved in/out, its all funds coming in (likely from hashlet purchases) and going out, withdrawals from zencloud.
This supports the straight ponzi theory. Look at the b.mine derivative on havelock, (not saying its a ponzi, I know what b.mine is) with the difficulty increasing and earnings dropping, you can theoretically keep a cryptomining ponzi going for quite sometime.

Something else to add to the fire. They are now paying hashpoints for upvotes in the new forum. NOTE : 1 HP=100satoshis, IE 0.00000100btc
While you can't withdraw the points, you can use them to buy new hashlets. Take what you will from this info.

FlexHash

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 11:16:52 AM

As much as I hate to admit it, Flex has a point somewhere in the middle of this troll hunt. Remember how GAW publicly called out Gridseed back in April? Or how all Gen A troubles were blamed on Zeus/Terry? If that's how they deal with their partners it's much more likely that they pissed off all of their suppliers and were left without hardware than them being able to produce a 28nm miner with specs far beyond any existing 28nm mining hardware in record time and in huge capacities.

Thank you. I hope some people won't think we are the same person.

MOB

hero member

Activity: 493

Merit: 504

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 03:47:45 PM

Quote from: MOB on August 31, 2014, 03:27:37 PM

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 03:21:33 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on August 31, 2014, 03:03:15 PM

Quote from: crazyivan on August 31, 2014, 02:47:29 PM

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

"ordinary" get paid less, "prime" gets paid ~50% more. ROI is anyone's guess since we don't know anything about the impact of e.g. rising hashrate/difficulty or other typical mining risks. 1 MH/s Prime currently gets about 0.0005-0.0006 BTC per day after fees.

Don't forget its also possible that they aren't mining at all. Hopefully they are doing some kind of day trading or something, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Did you miss my post?

Josh stated that the Zenpool income is primarily based upon leasing or renting pools to 3rd parties.

Then mining BTC, scrypt, scrypt-N, and day trading also all go into generating Zenpool payouts.

So while increased mining difficulty would be a factor, if we take Josh's words at face value, then they would be only a small factor in Zenpool's payouts.

No I didn't miss your post. Did you miss mine? Joshes answers to the questions reminds of me a line from BL2. I fought a shark in a bow tie, Who was wearing the bow tie, me or the shark? Yes.

Josh is basically utilizing every possible avenue for money generation, but no one successfully divides up their investments like that. They are also paying 11%/annum for held balances in zencloud, that is a sign that they need the money to stick around, they don't want people pulling it else they run out of funds to pay for "zenpool"

The renting option is dubious to me because who in their right mind is going to pay 50%+ more than nicehash, betarigs, etc is paying out. Not to mention there is no proof that the vaultbreakers are even in joshes hands.

I completely agree that it should be treated with a grain of salt, but unless this is a pure Ponzi (and even then) I think it is a safe assumption that they are day trading with funds. If Josh is telling the truth, then they are. If it is a Ponzi, and everything he says is a lie, then why not trade anyway and go for even larger profits, plus the potential to keep the game going longer.

As far as pool rentals goes, I have no idea how to interpret that in a way that makes sense. The day trading I believe.

rdyoung

legendary

Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Flep182 on August 31, 2014, 03:48:35 PM

Quote from: rdyoung on August 31, 2014, 01:38:35 PM

That doesn't address my main point. Asics are designed to do one thing and one thing only, the sha256 asics are designed to hash one way, you can't bruteforce to get the original data with those asics.

I unlock phones every so often when someone needs one, or I need a little extra cash. Do you do know how many older phones I have unlocked compared to newer models? A LOT of older phones, its highly unlikely someone would go and pay retail + a contract for a new phone only to need it unlocked for another carrier.

As far as that friend investigated there is a chance that they'll work. Rather have the jalapeno's help him then collecting dust with me Wink

Regarding older/newer phones, you're in a different telecoms market. He's doing 1000 brand new phones at once or similar size batches. Old phones he almost never gets Wink

I am thinking your friend has no clue how the asics work/are designed. Do a google search for cracking passwords, anything else with sha256 asics and you will find loads of people getting the same answer, it does one thing only, when thats not needed it becomes a heater/paperweight.

Topic: GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-) - page 187. (Read 262935 times)