GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 21.

mmortal03

legendary

Activity: 1762

Merit: 1011

Quote from: mkc on July 14, 2016, 04:22:16 PM

Quote from: mmortal03 on July 12, 2016, 06:36:26 PM

"SEC Issues Cease And Desist Against Bitcoin Investment Trust"

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-issues-cease-and-desist-order-against-bit-and-authorized-participant-levies-fine/

"Bitcoin Investment Trust and Genesis Trading Settle With SEC"

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-investment-trust-50000-settlement/

What is the implication for Bitcoin in general? Is this only because wrong doing in BIT side or SEC is not happy about Bitcoin?

I have been watching GBTC for a while, but 70% premium prevent me from pulling the trigger on it.

Well, they aren't shutting them down, so we can't assume the SEC is unhappy with Bitcoin in general. Let's hope they're fine with it, given the upcoming ETFs looking for approval: http://www.coindesk.com/solidx-bitcoin-trust-filing/

mkc

hero member

Activity: 517

Merit: 501

Quote from: mmortal03 on July 12, 2016, 06:36:26 PM

"SEC Issues Cease And Desist Against Bitcoin Investment Trust"

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-issues-cease-and-desist-order-against-bit-and-authorized-participant-levies-fine/

"Bitcoin Investment Trust and Genesis Trading Settle With SEC"

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-investment-trust-50000-settlement/

What is the implication for Bitcoin in general? Is this only because wrong doing in BIT side or SEC is not happy about Bitcoin?

I have been watching GBTC for a while, but 70% premium prevent me from pulling the trigger on it.

bobabouey2

sr. member

Activity: 248

Merit: 250

Quote from: David Rabahy on July 14, 2016, 01:00:22 PM

The fine is pretty small compared to the size of the trust so not a big deal in my mind.

What does worry me is the 2% annual fee per http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/. *If* I could sell GBTC and purchase BTC directly in my Roth IRA then I would do it to save the expense.

Agreed, and the settlement relates to the Reg M issue related to have a redemption program in place for the institutional investors while shares were being issued on the public markets. This issue has been disclosed for a long time, and does not relate to any fundamentals of the trust.

Keep us posted if you make progress with Broad Financial.

David Rabahy

hero member

Activity: 709

Merit: 503

I'm investigating the Broad Financial approach again.

David Rabahy

hero member

Activity: 709

Merit: 503

The fine is pretty small compared to the size of the trust so not a big deal in my mind.

What does worry me is the 2% annual fee per http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/. *If* I could sell GBTC and purchase BTC directly in my Roth IRA then I would do it to save the expense.

mmortal03

legendary

Activity: 1762

Merit: 1011

Quote from: sandiman on July 13, 2016, 04:27:21 AM

Quote from: mmortal03 on July 12, 2016, 06:36:26 PM

"SEC Issues Cease And Desist Against Bitcoin Investment Trust"

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-issues-cease-and-desist-order-against-bit-and-authorized-participant-levies-fine/

"Bitcoin Investment Trust and Genesis Trading Settle With SEC"

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-investment-trust-50000-settlement/

That's some old news ....

Be careful with ETF ... so many story of flawed ETF out there

It's the resolution to it, came out yesterday.

sandiman

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 501

Quote from: mmortal03 on July 12, 2016, 06:36:26 PM

"SEC Issues Cease And Desist Against Bitcoin Investment Trust"

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-issues-cease-and-desist-order-against-bit-and-authorized-participant-levies-fine/

"Bitcoin Investment Trust and Genesis Trading Settle With SEC"

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-investment-trust-50000-settlement/

That's some old news ....

Be careful with ETF ... so many story of flawed ETF out there

mmortal03

legendary

Activity: 1762

Merit: 1011

"SEC Issues Cease And Desist Against Bitcoin Investment Trust"

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-issues-cease-and-desist-order-against-bit-and-authorized-participant-levies-fine/

"Bitcoin Investment Trust and Genesis Trading Settle With SEC"

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-investment-trust-50000-settlement/

bitebits

legendary

Activity: 2242

Merit: 3523

Flippin' burgers since 1163.

Quote from: GGALINff on June 17, 2016, 01:42:47 PM

amazing - premium keeps expanding...wonder what the ceiling is

The ceiling + collapse will be when there is a real alternative like an ETF. These will be way more closely connected to the bitcoin spot price, or even drive the 'real' bitcoin price.

GGALINff

full member

Activity: 219

Merit: 100

amazing - premium keeps expanding...wonder what the ceiling is

mmortal03

legendary

Activity: 1762

Merit: 1011

Will we see GBTC at a 100% premium relative to the spot price soon? Tongue

Alley

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

I think it might be time for Barry to consider a 1/10 split. Price will over $100 Monday. Kind of pricey for a OTC stock. Make each share a 100th of a bitcoin?

David Rabahy

hero member

Activity: 709

Merit: 503

Quote from: Asrael999 on June 07, 2016, 09:19:21 AM

so this is now a way to buy BTC for $1000? But you get to keep it in a retirement account, which presumably has some tax advantage?

GBTC may be held in either a non-retirement or retirement account. Holding it in either is just like holding any other asset. That the BITS NAV and the GBTC exchange rate http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/#market-performance are so far out of alignment is interesting. The premium for GBTC is almost certainly due to scarcity. Arbitrage is impossible due to the length of time it takes to cycle through. Make no mistake; buying GBTC is *not* buying BTC. Yes, GBTC will tend to move in the same direction as BTC but it is not fixed to it directly. You cannot convert GBTC into BTC; well, you can but only indirectly, i.e. by selling the GBTC and buying BTC.

GBTC has a huge advantage over BTC; it can be bought and sold through a brokerage account. Now that might sound like a disadvantage but if what one wants is a retirement account then using a broker as your custodian is critical. Buying BITS to get the GBTC is potentially lucrative but takes so long that the risk is high a price drop could bite you bad.

Asrael999

hero member

Activity: 703

Merit: 502

so this is now a way to buy BTC for $1000? But you get to keep it in a retirement account, which presumably has some tax advantage?

Gatekeeper

sr. member

Activity: 358

Merit: 250

Just hit $100 Shocked

if only the real btc price was the same Grin

gentlemand

legendary

Activity: 2590

Merit: 3015

Welt Am Draht

Surely if Bitcoin continues to grow at some point a 'proper' ETF will arrive, even if it isn't the Winklevoss one. It may be many years away yet though.

ImI

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1019

Quote from: sandiman on June 06, 2016, 04:35:30 PM

Quote from: ImI on June 06, 2016, 02:55:03 PM

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on June 01, 2016, 08:05:26 AM

COIN. COIN is the one that's gonna blow the top off it all.

COIN won't come imo.

What is that?

Winklevoss Bitcoin-ETF

sandiman

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 501

Quote from: ImI on June 06, 2016, 02:55:03 PM

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on June 01, 2016, 08:05:26 AM

COIN. COIN is the one that's gonna blow the top off it all.

COIN won't come imo.

What is that?

ImI

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1019

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on June 01, 2016, 08:05:26 AM

COIN. COIN is the one that's gonna blow the top off it all.

COIN won't come imo.

uvwvj

full member

Activity: 145

Merit: 100

Quote from: Gatekeeper on June 06, 2016, 12:47:00 PM

$94.50 todays high Shocked

I remember some people talking about buying in at something like $31 and getting friends to buy in too, quite the investment huh, triple your money in such a short time. People talk about the premium but 3x your money is a better return than if you'd bought coins normally, we've only gone up about 2.5x

That would be me old friend.

Wink

Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 21. (Read 262354 times)