Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 51. (Read 262354 times)
Looks like there won't be any trades this week. http://www.cnbc.com/id/102549768
Ya I don't think this is really live yet.
I've talked to some people and I don't think anyone has received any info from Grayscale yet to begin the transfer from BIT to the OTC ETF. Without any transfers tough to have buys/sells and any volume yet. Just my thoughts.
AFAIK, "accredited investors" are simply people who can demonstrate to have enough money; not necessarily experienced investors.
And generally people with lots of money fall into two categories: those who have the interest and skills to manage their investments themselves, and those who pay professionals to do it for them.
Either way, they're fine. The set of people who have lots of money but have always kept it in the bank and never invested it unitil Bitcoin came along is surely vanishingly small.
roy
Still no selling? Share holders not willing to sell any... even at that premium! I would expect few would sell at those high bids and buy back again lower as "investors".
I suppose that the old investors are still waiting for their digital certificates or whatever they need in order to put their shares for sale.
I still got no reply for my second attempt to ask the OTCQX help desk about the unit of "size".
As noted before, the average BIT investor has lost, on paper, about 40% of the money he invested. Some investors made a profit, some are roughly even, but some lost a lot more than 40%. I would be very surprised if none of those old investors chooses to sell now.
Quote
@jl2012
Shares Outstanding 1,388,600 a/o Feb 10, 2015 (http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/profile).
If they have so many shares then they hold more bitcoins as it is written on first page
Shares Outstanding 1,388,600 a/o Feb 10, 2015 (http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/profile).
If they have so many shares then they hold more bitcoins as it is written on first page
The difference is 3128 BTC or less than 2.5%. Could it be the effect of fees?
if then only a part, because they surely need to pay their employees.
but good question about the unit size, i tried to look through the faq and learning center but found no info.
also the bidders seem to be pretty big names in the financial world.
Still no selling? Share holders not willing to sell any... even at that premium! I would expect few would sell at those high bids and buy back again lower as "investors".
I suppose that the old investors are still waiting for their digital certificates or whatever they need in order to put their shares for sale.
I still got no reply for my second attempt to ask the OTCQX help desk about the unit of "size".
As noted before, the average BIT investor has lost, on paper, about 40% of the money he invested. Some investors made a profit, some are roughly even, but some lost a lot more than 40%. I would be very surprised if none of those old investors chooses to sell now.
Quote
@jl2012
Shares Outstanding 1,388,600 a/o Feb 10, 2015 (http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/profile).
If they have so many shares then they hold more bitcoins as it is written on first page
Shares Outstanding 1,388,600 a/o Feb 10, 2015 (http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/profile).
If they have so many shares then they hold more bitcoins as it is written on first page
The difference is 3128 BTC or less than 2.5%. Could it be the effect of fees?
Still no selling? Share holders not willing to sell any... even at that premium! I would expect few would sell at those high bids and buy back again lower as "investors".
@jl2012
Shares Outstanding 1,388,600 a/o Feb 10, 2015 (http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/profile).
If they have so many shares then they hold more bitcoins as it is written on firs page
@jl2012
Shares Outstanding 1,388,600 a/o Feb 10, 2015 (http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/profile).
If they have so many shares then they hold more bitcoins as it is written on firs page
I know for sure that 1 share is 0.1 bitcoins. And also that the price it shows is for 0.1 bitcoins.
Since BIT is collecting maintenance fee, currently 1 share of BIT is only about 0.09766 bitcoin
Damn, buyers and sellers will need to carry the calculator all the time. So they charged around 2.3%.
I know for sure that 1 share is 0.1 bitcoins. And also that the price it shows is for 0.1 bitcoins.
Since BIT is collecting maintenance fee, currently 1 share of BIT is only about 0.09766 bitcoin
Have BIT investors gotten the e-mail with the instructions on how to transfer shares to GBTC? I imagine they may be waiting until April 1 or something just to make it suspenseful.
I know for sure that 1 share is 0.1 bitcoins. And also that the price it shows is for 0.1 bitcoins.
I'm unsure about the orderbook depth. And specifically lot sizes I'm not sure if the lot size is 100 or 1 share.
Very conflicting information.
Anyways the lot size may actually just be 1 share and there are just the minimum quote sizes for the market participants.
For bids from $1-174.99 they need to bid at least 100 shares. And for bids above 175 they can only bid 1 share.
I'm unsure about the orderbook depth. And specifically lot sizes I'm not sure if the lot size is 100 or 1 share.
Very conflicting information.
Anyways the lot size may actually just be 1 share and there are just the minimum quote sizes for the market participants.
For bids from $1-174.99 they need to bid at least 100 shares. And for bids above 175 they can only bid 1 share.
The 1 in (200 x 1) is just a place holder for the ask volume. After looking at the other trading OTC US shares, I'm 99% sure now that we are talking about a couple thousand $ worth of bids. I apologize for excoriating you the other day. Will be interesting to hopefully see some actual trading in GBTC this week.
No sweat.
The 200x was 100x before, now it is 200x surely because there are two bids with same price 35.50, each with size 100.
I guess those "100" bids are just for testing or priming. The "645" bid at 31 may come from a real investor. As you say, the real trading may begin next week, after the old shareholders get their access codes or whatever.
The 1 in (200 x 1) is just a place holder for the ask volume. After looking at the other trading OTC US shares, I'm 99% sure now that we are talking about a couple thousand $ worth of bids. I apologize for excoriating you the other day. Will be interesting to hopefully see some actual trading in GBTC this week.
Pretty sure the unit increments are .1 btc per share. So, the latest bid of 35.5 w/ 100 is effectively buying (or hoping to) 10 coins at $355 a piece
I know its 0.1 btc per share. I'm wondering whether 1 share is equal to 1 unit on the orderbook.Greyscale will only issue shares to the primary brokers in "baskets" of 100 shares, but investors must be able to trade any number of shares. The information about baskets is only a technical detail in the filing document.
There is no indication on the OTCQX page that the "size" is measured in baskets. There are two hints that the unit is just 1 share: (1) a "x1" on the line "best bid"; the left number is the sum of all "sizes" with the best price. (2) the fact that the price is 31.50 not 3150.00.
I have written to the OTCQX customer assistance but they did not understand the question. Maybe monday they will reply to my clarified re-question.
Actual level II quote screens list volume x100. Now I'm not so sure what otcmarkets.com is really listing on their level II montage. They may be showing actual shares, which would be sad, and make stolfi right. 
I'm looking for confirmation.
Someone said that the bids you see are actually units. 1 unit representing 100 shares or 10 btc. So a bid of 100 units would be 1000 btc.
Pretty sure the unit increments are .1 btc per share. So, the latest bid of 35.5 w/ 100 is effectively buying (or hoping to) 10 coins at $355 a pieceSomeone said that the bids you see are actually units. 1 unit representing 100 shares or 10 btc. So a bid of 100 units would be 1000 btc.
I know its 0.1 btc per share. I'm wondering whether 1 share is equal to 1 unit on the orderbook.
I'm looking for confirmation.
Someone said that the bids you see are actually units. 1 unit representing 100 shares or 10 btc. So a bid of 100 units would be 1000 btc.
Pretty sure the unit increments are .1 btc per share. So, the latest bid of 35.5 w/ 100 is effectively buying (or hoping to) 10 coins at $355 a piece Someone said that the bids you see are actually units. 1 unit representing 100 shares or 10 btc. So a bid of 100 units would be 1000 btc.
I'm looking for confirmation.
Someone said that the bids you see are actually units. 1 unit representing 100 shares or 10 btc. So a bid of 100 units would be 1000 btc.
Someone said that the bids you see are actually units. 1 unit representing 100 shares or 10 btc. So a bid of 100 units would be 1000 btc.
Wrong.
Even if the BIT investors bought BTC at a $1000/BTC rate, they can sell through GBTC at a small premium (e.g. 5%) and immediately buy BTC. Then they will increase their bitcoin holdings without risk. Every single eligible holder will have an incentive to sell as long as demand is higher than supply (creating a premium). The market is waiting to see if demand is, in fact, higher than supply.
You telling me they can sell @ $1000 even though spot price is $250? Yeah right. No risk my ass
Whoops. I meant $50. The number is irrelevant actually.
Wrong.
Even if the BIT investors bought BTC at a $1000/BTC rate, they can sell through GBTC at a small premium (e.g. 5%) and immediately buy BTC. Then they will increase their bitcoin holdings without risk. Every single eligible holder will have an incentive to sell as long as demand is higher than supply (creating a premium). The market is waiting to see if demand is, in fact, higher than supply.
You telling me they can sell @ $1000 even though spot price is $250? Yeah right. No risk my ass
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